DOJ Honors 2015-16 Megathread Forum

[Anonymous User]

If you work for OCIJ for the two year term as a judicial law clerk are you eligible to apply for the Honors Program again after completing your term?

yes.

Just making sure - so you can have 2 years in OCIJ as a JLC/Attorney Advisor, then another 2 years through Honors Program with OCIJ as AA?

I think when I interviewed with OCIJ and also with OGC, the OGC people referenced having JLCs come to work for them as Honors attorneys. The big difference is that OGC assured me that people who did the 2 years with them who wanted a permanent job got one (they didn't guarantee it, but said everyone they could think of had had their position converted), whereas that's not a thing for the JLCs. (It was a few years ago so I can't 100% swear to this, but that's what I remember.)

But you'd still be eligible for any of the honors program positions, so could apply outside of EOIR if you wanted, too.

Oh that makes sense, thanks for the explanation!

I don't think you can be an AA for another two years, say at a different court. In some cases you can extend another year I have heard, but you can apply to the other parts of EOIR like the post said above, or other components of DOJ.

[DJKRD92]

I currently work at the DOJ and work with some of the atttorneys that are involved in the hiring process.

It's definitely much more about personality and who they feel fits into the atmosphere, rather than who got the top grades at the top schools (although I'm sure it helps). The people at the DOJ is very much looking for people they want to work with. We recently (past 2-3 years) hired Honors attorneys from non-t20 schools, such as Howard, Catholic, New England, Ole Miss law, and Fordham.

Hope this is encouraging information!

[Anonymous User]

I don't think you can be an AA for another two years, say at a different court. In some cases you can extend another year I have heard, but you can apply to the other parts of EOIR like the post said above, or other components of DOJ.

Oh, yeah, I'm the interviewee who commented on this - if I was unclear, what I was told was OCIJ --> other parts of EOIR, not two stints in OCIJ.

[Anonymous User]

Any OCIJ offers today?

[Anonymous User]

No OCIJ offers today? I guess the have came to the end of their first round hires.

[Anonymous User]

No OCIJ offers today? I guess the have came to the end of their first round hires.

Don't assume everyone checks this forum and posts here.

[Anonymous User]

The office is slower on Fridays.

[Anonymous User]

I also was placed in a detention area in Texas in a seemingly isolated area, what state or region did you get your offer if you mind me asking? I also did not list this on my top choices.

No problem! I was offered a court in southern California.

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

[Anonymous User]

I also was placed in a detention area in Texas in a seemingly isolated area, what state or region did you get your offer if you mind me asking? I also did not list this on my top choices.

No problem! I was offered a court in southern California.

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

I was also placed in a detained area. I have absolutely no immigration experience, not even a course in immigration law, but I do have somewhat of a criminal background (volunteered at a local State Attorney's Office) so maybe there is truth to that. When you say more interesting assignments can you elaborate I am trying to get a feel for what it would be like. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

I was also placed in a detained area. I have absolutely no immigration experience, not even a course in immigration law, but I do have somewhat of a criminal background (volunteered at a local State Attorney's Office) so maybe there is truth to that. When you say more interesting assignments can you elaborate I am trying to get a feel for what it would be like. Thanks.

If you have no immigration experience, I'd strongly recommend signing up for whatever immigration survey course your school offers in the spring (assuming you're still in law school).

As far as being in a detained court, your assignments will be some variation of the following: (1) does X criminal activity make this person removable? (2) if yes, does X criminal activity bar this person from relief from removal?

Basically, you're going to have to get familiar with criminal law terms, elements, etc. and then figure out how those fit into the INA. To some people, this is more interesting than what you might get in other courts, which is like asylum applications, adjustment of status, etc. Also, the timeline in detained courts is much shorter, so the faster pace probably adds to the level of interest/excitement.

[Anonymous User]

T14, Above median, law journal publication on immigration, previous immigration experience (DHS and immigration policy), willing to go anywhere but prioritizing detention centers

First day finalist, references contacted before thanksgiving.

No offer (yet?). Kinda sad.

[Anonymous User]

Any OCIJ offers today?

[Anonymous User]

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

I was also placed in a detained area. I have absolutely no immigration experience, not even a course in immigration law, but I do have somewhat of a criminal background (volunteered at a local State Attorney's Office) so maybe there is truth to that. When you say more interesting assignments can you elaborate I am trying to get a feel for what it would be like. Thanks.

If you have no immigration experience, I'd strongly recommend signing up for whatever immigration survey course your school offers in the spring (assuming you're still in law school).

As far as being in a detained court, your assignments will be some variation of the following: (1) does X criminal activity make this person removable? (2) if yes, does X criminal activity bar this person from relief from removal?

Basically, you're going to have to get familiar with criminal law terms, elements, etc. and then figure out how those fit into the INA. To some people, this is more interesting than what you might get in other courts, which is like asylum applications, adjustment of status, etc. Also, the timeline in detained courts is much shorter, so the faster pace probably adds to the level of interest/excitement.

I'd say detained dockets have more variation in the assignments than what you described, though I guess it depends on the court. My input for above poster on types of assignments: lots of short research assignments, lots of bond memos, and some asylum/cancellation of removal/etc longer decisions.

Edit: I definitely recommend reaching out to the current JLC to ask about what it is like to work there, types of assignments, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Have any SLIP candidates (particularly in Civil Division) heard back? I remember seeing some people talking about interviews several pages back. I interviewed early/mid November and was listed a finalist before Thanksgiving, but haven't heard since. Anyone else? Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

No problem! I was offered a court in southern California.

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

I'm the Southern California poster. Yes, I have 2+ years worth of federal criminal enforcement and immigration law experience. My immigration law experience mostly deals with detainees with extensive criminal records (violent crimes), so this would make sense. Do you know if Adelanto just increased the number of clerks this past year?

[Anonymous User]

No problem! I was offered a court in southern California.

If Adelanto, I have a feeling they traditionally placed people with more experience there, but for the first time, there will be two clerks at once so maybe experience isnt that important now. Do you have a criminal background? That may make them more likely to place you with a detained docket.

For people in detained locations, you will get a lot more one-on-one time with judges than people at bigger courts, and you will also get more responsibility and more interesting assignments.

I'm the Southern California poster. Yes, I have 2+ years worth of federal criminal enforcement and immigration law experience. My immigration law experience mostly deals with detainees with extensive criminal records (violent crimes), so this would make sense. Do you know if Adelanto just increased the number of clerks this past year?

Yes, there will be 2 versus 1 so you wont work alone. You get the LA pay bump in Adelanto despite the really low cost of living, and when CWS kicks in, you will have 3 day weekends, which is good for short trips and road trips.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, there will be 2 versus 1 so you wont work alone. You get the LA pay bump in Adelanto despite the really low cost of living, and when CWS kicks in, you will have 3 day weekends, which is good for short trips and road trips.

That's great to hear! I'm glad there'll be a buddy system in place haha. Thank you very much for the info. For some reason, I didn't realize CWS applied to EOIR employees as well.

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume that 1st Round Offers are completed?

[Anonymous User]

Should we assume that 1st Round Offers are completed?

That is my feeling since most of the last few to post seemed not to be getting their first picks of location and now it seems like they should be done and waiting to see who does not accept.

[Anonymous User]

Is anyone else having trouble logging into Avue when I go to the site it will not load and my screen remains blank.

[Anonymous User]

Any current or former OCIJ clerks here if you wouldn't mind answering what do you think the job market is like after the clerkship. I am debating whether or not I am going to accept my offer mainly because it is at probably the last location I would have wanted and would require a significant cost to relocate since it is pretty far from where I currently live. My main concern is how easy it would be to find employment elsewhere after the two years in another state that you did not clerk in. If any current/former clerks have secured employment after could you speak to if it was easy or hard and if location where you did the clerkship mattered. Also, do you think the clerkship would box you into just doing immigration work or it can open you up to other sectors in the federal government and beyond. Also, if you reapply through the Honors Program has anyone heard of what other components have accepted OCIJ clerks since I did hear you can't do another OCIJ clerkship I am wondering what other components would like the OCIJ experience. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Any current or former OCIJ clerks here if you wouldn't mind answering what do you think the job market is like after the clerkship. I am debating whether or not I am going to accept my offer mainly because it is at probably the last location I would have wanted and would require a significant cost to relocate since it is pretty far from where I currently live. My main concern is how easy it would be to find employment elsewhere after the two years in another state that you did not clerk in. If any current/former clerks have secured employment after could you speak to if it was easy or hard and if location where you did the clerkship mattered. Also, do you think the clerkship would box you into just doing immigration work or it can open you up to other sectors in the federal government and beyond. Also, if you reapply through the Honors Program has anyone heard of what other components have accepted OCIJ clerks since I did hear you can't do another OCIJ clerkship I am wondering what other components would like the OCIJ experience. Thanks.

I posted where people from my location have gone on a previous page. As for other markets, people overwhelmingly go to DC. Otherwise, most stay in the same state, though people generally want to stay in my state and not leave, so that's probably not helpful if you're in an undesirable area. Most people stay in immigration but not all. Usually you do this clerkship because you know you want immigration, though people certainly do other types of work in fed govt or big law afterwards. I honestly don't know of people who got jobs through the Honors Program a second time around. It doesnt make much sense. You can get hired by the BIA, USAO, etc directly. However, I'd say BIA, OIL, and USAO would be most interested in OCIJ hires through the Honors Program. Just an fyi though, BIA's program is two years like OCIJ, so it makes more sense to me to just go outside Honors Program if you want to work for the BIA long-term. In addition, many components dont hire many people to begin with through Honors and are also considering really competitive non-OCIJ people.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know of anyone who has turned down an OCIJ offer yet?

[Anonymous User]

I honestly wouldn't assume they have made offers for all 90 (or however many) spots yet. From last year's thread it looks like the offers continue in January. I also know someone who got an offer in January for a desirable city, and she is not someone I would think would be an alternate.
I know at some point the spots will be taken up, but it seems like a Sloooow process.

[Anonymous User]

I honestly wouldn't assume they have made offers for all 90 (or however many) spots yet. From last year's thread it looks like the offers continue in January. I also know someone who got an offer in January for a desirable city, and she is not someone I would think would be an alternate.
I know at some point the spots will be taken up, but it seems like a Sloooow process.

I think if you get an offer in January you must be an alternate because those who received offers have a deadline of December 30th to accept so it just makes sense. Even if an offer is given for a bigger city there are tons of reasons why someone might have turned down that offer.