University of Texas 2015 OCI

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
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Anonymous User
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University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:48 pm

Class of 2017:

Grades are in and OCI bidding is active. In this thread, we help one another put together suitable bidlists, share information, assuage fears, offer advice on interviews and callbacks, etc.

Past threads:

2014: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=232541&p=7842955&hilit=texas+ut+law+oci+2014#p7842955
2013: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... i#p6968932

Here are the rules and some tips from another poster:

I. Anonymous Handles

To maintain privacy but to keep track of one another, use the anonymous post feature but sign your posts with a handle. E.g.: "- RIPDOUBLEDAVES69"

II. Bidding

The basics of bidlist stuff should be straightforward: if you think other people are more likely to bid on a firm, you should bid it high. Firms that are less grade-selective or that have fewer interview spots are more competitive, so you should probably rank them higher. Don’t rank a firm high just because you want it, but if you really want a particular firm it might be good to rank it high for your peace of mind. The Excel file with median GPAs of screeners awarded is your friend. Finally, spreading bids out between multiple markets increases the risk of striking out, especially if you don't have strong ties to those markets.

III. Callbacks

Once we’re at least part-way through the first rings of interviewing hell, people will get callbacks. In past years, people would post the firm name and the initials of the person who interviewed them when they received a callback so that people would know that callbacks had gone out.

Here is some Texas-specific stuff from an old thread (if someone wants to update it, be my guest):

Largest Firms in Texas*
*Based on # of attorneys in Texas, not firm-wide
1. Fulbright Jaworksi (or Norton Rose Fulbright, whatever)
2. Vinson & Elkins
3. Baker Botts
4. Haynes and Boone
5. Jackson Walker
6. Andrews Kurth
7. Bracewell Guiliani
8. Locke Lord
9. Winstead
10. Thompson Knight
11. Gardere
12. Strasburger & Price
13. Jones Day
14. Akin Gump
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman

2013/2012 Summer Associate Hiring:
Firm - # of 2013 SAs / # of 2012 SAs. Note, these are Texas-wide numbers. Office specific numbers should be available through NALP.
1. Fulbright Jaworksi - 56 / 66
2. Vinson & Elkins - 76 / 87
3. Baker Botts - 66 / 80
4. Haynes and Boone - 46 / 47
5. Jackson Walker - 23 / 20
6. Andrews Kurth 40 / 43
7. Bracewell Guiliani - 46 / 37
8. Locke Lord - 44 / 42
9. Winstead - 15 / 12
10. Thompson Knight - 17 / 18
11. Gardere - 7 / 10
12. Strasburger & Price - 12 / 8
13. Jones Day - no info
14. Akin Gump - 11 / 14
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman - 8 / 5

In regards to these numbers, they reflect some of the current hiring trends. You'll notice some of firms had much smaller classes even though the firm itself is larger (for example Fulbright and Jackson Walker vs. Locke Lord and Bracewell). While Texas firms have traditionally split summer, more firms are moving towards only having 1st half classes. Additionally, many of those firms that have typically had a large # of SAs are starting to take smaller classes (ex: Baker Botts going from 80 to 66). That reflects a shift in some firms' decision-making process. They're becoming more selective on the front-end, taking smaller classes, and maintaining high offer rates. I'm sure people can debate about that more in-depth but I just wanted to initially address some of those trends.

2012 2L Offer Rates
Firm: # of 2012 SAs/# of offers given - 2012 Offer Rate / 2011 Offer Rate
1. Fulbright Jaworksi: 49/40 - 81.6% / 90%
2. Vinson & Elkins: 71/65 - 91.5% / 94.7%
3. Baker Botts: 67/59 - 88.1% / 89.8%
4. Haynes and Boone: 41/38 - 92.7% / 75%
5. Jackson Walker: 17/14 - 82.4% / 75%
6. Andrews Kurth: 32/30 - 93.8% / 84%
7. Bracewell Guiliani: 27/24 - 88.9% / 78.6%
8. Locke Lord: 25/23 - 92% / 88.2%
9. Winstead: 12/10 - 83.3% / 71.4%
10. Thompson Knight: 18/14 - 77.8% / 77.8%
11. Gardere: 10/5 - 50% / 100%
12. Strasburger & Price: no info
13. Jones Day: 26/26 - 100% / 87%
14. Akin Gump: 11/10 - 90.9% / 92.9%
15. Kelly Hart & Hallman: 5/4 - 80% / N/A

Note: The prior table includes 1L SAs, one of the reasons why the numbers might not match up.

Generic advice:
- Make sure you've got your suits/clothes squared away before hand. Take inventory and make sure everything fits, matches, etc. Get a haircut. Little details go a long way to making a good first impression. You don't want to be the person who forgot their good tie or who didn't realize their dress shirt was stained until 2 min. before your first interview.
- Print extra copies of your resume, transcript, writing sample, anything you may possibly want to give them. Maybe your interviewer lost their copy of your resume. Maybe they didn't originally request a writing sample. Maybe they just want to see how prepared you are.
- If you worked at a firm, judicial internship, or did any sort of hands-on litigation work during your 1L summer, make a case list that you can give them. 2L OCI isn't really the time to ask about conflicts but just it case, it shows that you're prepared. Better yet, it gives you a chance to show off some of your work/knowledge. I only got to use mine three times over the course of two weeks but it was worth the 5 minutes it took to prepare and print.
- This might be a bit too late but review your writing samples. If yours is anything like mine, it's crap. Mine was the memo from my 1L fall and when I read back over it the following July I was embarrassed (but hey, you had 2 months of law school when you wrote that, what do yo expect?). If it's too late to get another writing sample then just do a quick edit of your old one. Again, you probably won't need it if they haven't asked for it yet, but it's better to be prepared.
- DO YOUR RESEARCH. Use ChamberAssociates, Vault, Lexis litigation profiles, anything you can. You don't want to be the jerkoff asking the generic questions that your interviewers have heard four times in the past hour. Researcher your interviewers. If you have a common interest or outside connection, find a way to bring it up (but of course avoid saying "So I was stalking you online and saw...").

More Texas-specific advice:
Texas ties:
- If you have them, stress them. You love Texas, it's your home and you can't wait to get back to Dallas/Houston/San Antonio and start your family there. You didn't even know there were law offices north of the Red River. What the hell is "New York"? Go Cowboys/Texans/Spurs.
- If you don't have Texas ties, then find them. You have family here (doesn't matter that it's your second cousin living in El Paso). You came to UT because you want to live in Texas forever, and swore you'd never go back to your home state. Go Cowboys/Texans/Spurs.
Receptions:
- This was the subject that caused the most stress for me last year just because I didn't know the set-up. Generally, the large firms will have a reception either the evening before or after their interviews. Most are just general receptions; they'll probably be more students than attorneys. Keep your suit on. Stay long enough to talk to at least a couple attorneys, try to find the ones who interviewed you to make sure they remember you. Keep the conversation light, the interviewers just spent 6 hours talking to law students, they don't want your take on punitive damages, they'd rather talk about college football or reality tv.
- In terms of manners, just use overall common sense. Don't get too drunk.
- DO stay out. If the attorneys are going out after the reception and invite you along, go with them. For many attorneys these recruiting trips are a chance to have a good time on the firm's dime. You want them to remember you as someone who they can have a good time with, not just the man/woman in the 2:15-2:30 interview slot. I don't care that you have another interview tomorrow morning at 8:30. No excuses, play like a champion.
- Obviously, don't go to receptions for firms that you didn't have an interview with. However, if there is a general reception, just because your interviewer doesn't expressly mention it or tell you to come doesn't mean you should skip it. I had a friend last year who wouldn't go to a reception unless the interviewer expressly invited him themselves, bad idea. If you're unsure, call the recruiting coordinator and check.
- On that note, be nice to the recruiting coordinators. This will vary from firm to firm, but often times the recruiting coordinator is the person at the firm that you'll have the most direct contact with. You're stupid if you think you can be rude to them and it won't come up before the hiring committee.
- Dinners: Some firms will have invitation-only events. These may be based on grades (top 10% only, TLR only, etc.), or just on them extending invitations to people they like. Obviously, if you're not invited, don't go. That said, if you aren't invited it's not the end of the world. I know multiple people who ended up getting offers from firms that hadn't invited them to a private dinner the night before.


- RIPDOUBLEDAVES69

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:05 pm

Who is all in for the NYC job fair? Preselects are released this Thursday.

I'll be deciding whether or not to attend based on those results.

- RIPDOUBLEDAVES69

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cannibal ox
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby cannibal ox » Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:14 pm

Tag so this can be in my "view your posts" page.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby WokeUpInACar » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Who is all in for the NYC job fair? Preselects are released this Thursday.

I'll be deciding whether or not to attend based on those results.

- RIPDOUBLEDAVES69

You will have more interviews than you think you will.

Traynor Brah
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:25 pm

Can any elders talk about bidding the same firm in different TX cities, for someone w/o serious TX ties? E.g. would it be generally ill-advised to interview at both BB Austin and BB Dallas at OCI?

Also:
cannibal ox wrote:Tag so this can be in my "view your posts" page.

Anonymous User
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:31 pm

Err. So there was apparently a second page to bid for NYC OCI. Only like SullCrom and Skadden. Nbd.

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cannibal ox
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby cannibal ox » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Default list view is set to 20, so yeah there were some on the second page. Might not be too late to email the recruiter with your material and try and get in for an alternate slot?

Ken Kesey
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Ken Kesey » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:47 pm

Traynor Brah wrote:Can any elders talk about bidding the same firm in different TX cities, for someone w/o serious TX ties? E.g. would it be generally ill-advised to interview at both BB Austin and BB Dallas at OCI?

Also:
cannibal ox wrote:Tag so this can be in my "view your posts" page.


Obviously you should bid every city and say you love Texas so much you'd live anywhere, only right answer.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby shifty_eyed » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:25 pm

cannibal ox wrote:Default list view is set to 20, so yeah there were some on the second page. Might not be too late to email the recruiter with your material and try and get in for an alternate slot?


You should definitely do this. Last year both Skadden and S&C had a lot of slots.

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby StylinNProfilin » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:31 pm

Yeah last year it seemed S&C interviewed everyone that applied. Tons of slots.

mister logical
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby mister logical » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:44 pm

I was just admitted as a transfer student this morning so I have some catching up to do, does anyone have any advice for putting these bid lists together considering I have a GPA from a different law school?

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Pneumonia
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Pneumonia » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:42 pm

Ya'll still accepting non-UT students who are bidding Texas ITT?

BigZuck
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:05 pm

Pneumonia wrote:Ya'll still accepting non-UT students who are bidding Texas ITT?

Bring it

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:21 pm

Anybody know how Texas students fared with the V10 at the NY job fair in previous years?

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:28 pm

I would also like to know more about how students have done in NY fair in the past and how bidding went for current students this year. It was my understanding that generally people get many interviews for this one, so going into it nervous with very few.

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StylinNProfilin
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby StylinNProfilin » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:05 pm

Last year seemed to go very well for the NY Fair. Off the top of my head there's around 10 students at V10 and many more at other great NY firms. It seemed like most people got a good amount of callbacks. I had 8 and 3 callbacks. Welcome to PM me if you have any questions; especially about any firms you're interviewing with

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:38 pm

Is there any consensus on which texas firms care least about fit/personality and are more prone to hire solely on gpa/tlr?

BigZuck
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there any consensus on which texas firms care least about fit/personality and are more prone to hire solely on gpa/tlr?

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by "fit/personality?" Like, how are you lacking in those areas? (Not trying to out you or anything, I'm just trying to figure out what you're specifically concerned about). If the concern is being not a Texan, then the national firms who have relatively recently opened up TX offices might be a bit more forgiving. If the concern is something else then I think you might need to be a bit more specfic about what you mean.

I think the firms that seem to almost solely care about GPA tend to be in NY, not TX.

Anonymous User
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:51 am

BigZuck wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there any consensus on which texas firms care least about fit/personality and are more prone to hire solely on gpa/tlr?

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by "fit/personality?" Like, how are you lacking in those areas? (Not trying to out you or anything, I'm just trying to figure out what you're specifically concerned about). If the concern is being not a Texan, then the national firms who have relatively recently opened up TX offices might be a bit more forgiving. If the concern is something else then I think you might need to be a bit more specfic about what you mean.

I think the firms that seem to almost solely care about GPA tend to be in NY, not TX.

I was more just wondering whether there are any texas-centric firms who have a reputation to care comparatively less about soft factors in hiring, as I would prefer to rank such firms higher (as I am a shitty interviewee who has no ties).

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BVest
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby BVest » Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:49 am

The thing is, if there are any firms that are going to hire based entirely based off objective criteria (and I don't know if there are), you SHOULD NOT bid them that high.

Bidding mostly matters for lottery. The only time that bid slot matters for pre-select is when you get matched up for more than 25 interviews (the max allowed). The firm doesn't see where you bid them, only that you bid them at all. Thus, if you have the qualifications that a firm is looking for (in this hypothetical discussion, pure objective qualifications of a 3.8x + tlr), they will give you a screener regardless of whether you bid them 1 or 60.

The firms that you want to bid high are the firms where you are on the cusp of getting a screener (or where you don't think you'd get a screener at all) simply based on objective criteria, but where, if you can just get in that interview room, you've got a decent chance to get a CB.

You'll note that this strategy differs from much of the discussion of bid strategy around here because most of the T-14s are pure lottery-based with just a few mixed lottery/pre-select. Texas's 70/30% pre-select/lottery mix significantly reduces the importance of your bid slots beyond the top 5-10 (which is where all your lotteries will come from). After that, the only thing of importance is which firms you put within the the top 35 or 40 slots vs those you put in the bottom 20-25 slots -- but that only matters if you're the type of candidate who is likely to max out the allowed 25 interviews.

tl;dr:
Don't worry much about your bids beyond top 10 (which should be borderline firms for getting a pre-select). Instead spend your time figuring out what you want to say in interviews and practicing saying those things so you don't sound completely unprepared when interviews come around. Interviews may be the worst way to evaluate job candidates, but they're still the most relied upon by every employer.

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:05 am

That was a really helpful post Bvest. Thanks a lot.

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:07 pm

Top 25-20% at UT. Waiting for journals. Only applying to Houston (solid ties), have 1L BigLaw SA in Houston. Only interested in energy/general transactional work. Here's my 25:

1. V&E Houston
2. Latham Houston
3. Andrews Kurth Houston
4. NRF Houston
5. BB Houston
6. Bracewell Houston
7. Locke Lord Houston
8. Kirkland Houston
9. Akin Gump Houston
10. Jones Day Houston
11. Winston & Strawn Houston
12. Weil Houston
13. Skadden Houston
14. Baker & Hostetler Houston
15. Hogan Lovells Houston
16. Thompson Knight Houston
17. Haynes and Boone Houston
18. Sidley Houston
19. Backer McKenzie Houston
20. Jackson Walker Houston
21. Pillsbury Houston
22. Cadwalader Houston
23. King & Spalding Houston
24. Porter Hedges Houston
25. Morgan Lewis Houston

Tear it up. I appreciate any advice.
--Concord

BigZuck
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 25-20% at UT. Waiting for journals. Only applying to Houston (solid ties), have 1L BigLaw SA in Houston. Only interested in energy/general transactional work. Here's my 25:

1. V&E Houston
2. Latham Houston
3. Andrews Kurth Houston
4. NRF Houston
5. BB Houston
6. Bracewell Houston
7. Locke Lord Houston
8. Kirkland Houston
9. Akin Gump Houston
10. Jones Day Houston
11. Winston & Strawn Houston
12. Weil Houston
13. Skadden Houston
14. Baker & Hostetler Houston
15. Hogan Lovells Houston
16. Thompson Knight Houston
17. Haynes and Boone Houston
18. Sidley Houston
19. Backer McKenzie Houston
20. Jackson Walker Houston
21. Pillsbury Houston
22. Cadwalader Houston
23. King & Spalding Houston
24. Porter Hedges Houston
25. Morgan Lewis Houston

Tear it up. I appreciate any advice.
--Concord


I think Skadden and Kirkland might be reaches, I'd consider throwing them higher up (maybe 1-2?). I would expect to be preselected everywhere else.

I'd probably bid McDermott somewhere, I think that office is pretty much all Houston energy transactional (I admit though that I dont know what, say, Pilsbury Houston does so maybe all those are better bids than MWE)

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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:34 pm

I'm trying to upload cover letters to symplicity but it won't let me upload more than 10 documents, could someone help me out? I'm not sure what to do.

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WokeUpInACar
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Re: University of Texas 2015 OCI

Postby WokeUpInACar » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm trying to upload cover letters to symplicity but it won't let me upload more than 10 documents, could someone help me out? I'm not sure what to do.

You gotta submit the whole application (including cover letter), then delete the old cover letters before uploading new ones. It's annoying as shit though, so dumb that they limit it to 10.




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