Penn OCI 2015 (C/O 2017) Forum

[Nelson]

How serious are firms about these grade stipulations? Seeing a lot of mediocre firms throwing out top 15% like it's candy.

Ignore that completely. Look at the actual grade breakdown for Penn students bidding last year.

To some extent those numbers (the pie charts) will be inflated as well. First, the charts reflect the last three years. Firms seem to be casting a wider and wider net over the last three years. This probably doesn't inflate the numbers by much though. Second, the chart reflects offers, not acceptances. Thus, the grades of people who were offered/accepted at the most selective firms are represented. This probably causes a lot of inflation (especially around the lower ranks).

I took a brief look at the ABA numbers since 2010 to try to get an idea of just how successful Penn is at Biglaw (or 101+) insertion. Here are the results. Please know that I am aware that this is not completely indicative of OCI success (people get jobs outside OCI), but it is nonetheless very informative (I think).

% of Class @ 101-501+ (Not taking into account adjustments for clerks/academics/public interest people)
2010-58%
2011-58%
2012-65%
2013-56%
2014-70%
% of Class @ 101-501+ (Adjusting for clerks/academics/public interest people)
2010-70%
2011-69%
2012-77%
2013-67%
2014-84% (Whoa!) FYI, this # is 78% for 251-501+. Not bad.

I am looking for feedback. I realize that subtracting clerks/academics/PIs from the class size is subjective. I figure these people are capable of getting Biglaw but do not bother with the exception of some state court clerks who represent a small fraction of our clerkships (see the ABA clerk numbers for the last five years). Adjusting for the handful of state clerks wouldn't change the numbers all that much. For example, it would change the 84% (immediately above) to roughly 82% assuming 10% of clerks can't get Biglaw jobs.

Thoughts?

Pie charts are inflated because firms give out tons of offers to top of the class people who can all only take one offer. The charts are only meaningful to give you the gist of the firm vs other firms; they are not indicative of what it takes to get an offer or even the profile of the average candidate who gets an offer at that firm.

Good luck all. You'll be fine. Try to be nice to each other and be conscientious that not everyone's experience is the same.

[Anonymous User]

Good luck all. You'll be fine. Try to be nice to each other and be conscientious that not everyone's experience is the same.

So much this.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!

[UpandDown97]

Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!

Any idea where this puts you rank wise?

[ymmv]

Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!

Plenty of NY firms are still in reach for you, but I would hustle regardless. Get as many OCI slots in NY as you can - including picking up all that are available once trading opens up - and blanket the rest of the city with mass mailings. I'd also recommend mass mailing any secondary markets you have strong ties too. They're generally tougher than NY but it never hurts to try.

[Anonymous User]

Hi all,

Wondering if people have advice re bid list building.

Grades were disappointing: B+, B+, B, B, B, B, LPS-H, and still waiting on one spring grade.

Comes out to ~3.07 GPA.

Interested only in New York, leaning strongly lit, but wouldn't mind splitting between corp/lit at a firm.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

Thanks guys, and best of luck to everyone!

Any idea where this puts you rank wise?

Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.

Is a 3.07 that high?? #givesmehope

Also congrats on giving enough of a fuck to get an H in LPS.

[GoCavaliers2018]

Not sure, but probably slightly below median. Conservatively? 35th-40th percentile.

Is a 3.07 that high?? #givesmehope

Also congrats on giving enough of a fuck to get an H in LPS.

Agreed. I'd play the H in LPS up.

If we were all benched against the same curve last semester, it'd be so much easier to tell where we stood as far as rank goes. The different curves of the electives mess it all up.

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?

[DCNTUA]

Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?

Can't speak to New York, but the ones in DC have not been very informative or useful.

[ymmv]

Has anyone been going to the receptions in NYC? How are they? Worth the time?

Can't speak to New York, but the ones in DC have not been very informative or useful.

They're useful for generating interview material. "I talked to X about Y practice, and I'm really interested to learn more" etc. It's hard to stress how much having that kind of super simple touchstone that help you in the OCI process.

[Anonymous User]

I went to one recently and actually found it really useful, I mingled with the right people and i think it will help me.

[Anonymous User]

Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?

[Anonymous User]

Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?

Only way to know is to test the waters. We are at Penn afterall. Plus, your grades are all across the curve. People say that helps. That shiny "A" couldn't hurt either.

[Nelson]

Just got my final grade in. My grades look really bad right now. B-,B-,B-,B+,B+,B+,A.

That's a 3.15 but with a bunch of B-s.

Really hoping to go California Biglaw (I'm from there but have no helpful connections)...am I screwed? Any suggestions?

Penn doesn't help you get back to CA in the best of circumstances. Pound pavement this summer and do the west coast regional fair. Use your OCI bids on NYC to give you a market paying backup if things don't work out.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for the feedback!

[Anonymous User]

I'd prob move the three of them up and forget sullcrom

[Nelson]

snip

[Anonymous User]

When are these bid lists due?

[Anonymous User]

You will get all 4 of those firms where you have them now. You can get DPW, STB, and WLRK at 25+ so you're giving them plenty of cushion already (DPW has 80 slots, so you're hugely overranking them, but that might be justifiable if you just want peace of mind to be sure you'll get the firm though it is a bit of a waste to use a top 5 bid on them). You won't get some of the other firms on your list though (Skadden esp. is way too low).

Thanks for looking this over. I'm fine with missing Skadden. I bid DPW high because the spreadsheet says it has 60 bids with a 52% success rate. Maybe I'll move it down a bit. How can we even tell at what rank we can safely get a screener?
Edit: also, what other firms am I at risk of not getting?

[Anonymous User]

I wasn't gonna put much thought into the bidlist because I heard you can pick up any interviews you miss through the lottery directly at OCI anyway so I figured I wouldn't be losing out on many firms I really want to interview with.

Is that a bad strategy?

[Nelson]

I wasn't gonna put much thought into the bidlist because I heard you can pick up any interviews you miss through the lottery directly at OCI anyway so I figured I wouldn't be losing out on many firms I really want to interview with.

Is that a bad strategy?

It depends on what firms you're talking about, but in general, I would say this is not an optimal strategy. The firms that are freely available are either the very selective firms and/or ones with tons of slots. Popular firms not meeting those two criteria can be tough to get on the schedule for. Better to have the security of getting the firms you want through the lottery than trying to swap for them or pick them up at OCI, especially if you're targeting popular firms or schedules with few slots (which means not very many staff from the firm coming to OCI).

[Anonymous User]

How helpful is a CPP bidlist critique. I ask because I have no bidlist to speak of and the critique ends in two days...

[Anonymous User]

CPP gives general guidance. such as limiting the target market to 1 or 2. and also just making sure that you aren't making crazy stupid mistakes.

on a different note, anyone have any idea how this year will fare compare to last year's oci?

[Anonymous User]

CPP gives general guidance. such as limiting the target market to 1 or 2.

If you have good grades and a good story for more places than that, you don't need to limit yourself. I successfully interviewed in 4 different markets last year. Lots of the smaller regional ones only have a handful of firms anyway.

That said I would definitely recommend having at least a few big New York safeties no matter how good your grades and regional ties are.