Northwestern OCI 2015 Forum

[feralinfant]

How far above our GPA should we reach? i.e if we have a 3.50 what callback GPA is realistically attainable and not a "reach" also what callback GPA would be a reach for a 3.50?

This is really going to depend on the firm, and your information about that will necessarily be anecdotal. There's a few firms that I think have very firm cutoffs (ie Sullivan and I am of the belief that DPW has a hard cut at 3.7 or so, but this is based on incredibly imperfect data). You are better off posting a bidlist and asking for input. I really think it probably has more to do with class size than what the averages will show. For instance you can reach more for a firm that takes 100 summers. Less so at a place that takes five.

[Anonymous User]

How far above our GPA should we reach? i.e if we have a 3.50 what callback GPA is realistically attainable and not a "reach" also what callback GPA would be a reach for a 3.50?

This is really going to depend on the firm, and your information about that will necessarily be anecdotal. There's a few firms that I think have very firm cutoffs (ie Sullivan and I am of the belief that DPW has a hard cut at 3.7 or so, but this is based on incredibly imperfect data). You are better off posting a bidlist and asking for input. I really think it probably has more to do with class size than what the averages will show. For instance you can reach more for a firm that takes 100 summers. Less so at a place that takes five.

Okay so if you have a 3.5 don't bid a place with like a 3.7 median and a min of 3.6 but maybe bid a place with like a 3.7 median and a 3.3 min?

I don't think Career services has posted the info on how high you have to bid firms to get a screener at OCI yet which is why no one has posted a bid list yet. But I may be wrong.

[feralinfant]

How far above our GPA should we reach? i.e if we have a 3.50 what callback GPA is realistically attainable and not a "reach" also what callback GPA would be a reach for a 3.50?

This is really going to depend on the firm, and your information about that will necessarily be anecdotal. There's a few firms that I think have very firm cutoffs (ie Sullivan and I am of the belief that DPW has a hard cut at 3.7 or so, but this is based on incredibly imperfect data). You are better off posting a bidlist and asking for input. I really think it probably has more to do with class size than what the averages will show. For instance you can reach more for a firm that takes 100 summers. Less so at a place that takes five.

Okay so if you have a 3.5 don't bid a place with like a 3.7 median and a min of 3.6 but maybe bid a place with like a 3.7 median and a 3.3 min?

I don't think Career services has posted the info on how high you have to bid firms to get a screener at OCI yet which is why no one has posted a bid list yet. But I may be wrong.

I mean, OCS isn't going to be able to tell you this because it will be dependent on how you and all your classmates bid. I would look through last year's thread for some idea of what bidlists tend to look like, and you can adjust for any differences in the firms coming this year versus last year. In general competitive Chicago firms will go fairly high, competitive NY firms (V10ish) will go a little lower (think 10-20) and theres a fair bit of random mixed in with how it goes.

With regard to your question about medians etc, its just not that mathematical of a process but thats on the right track. the problem is that most minimums won't tell you much because there might be one 3.2 and everyone else is 3.8 and above. So you cant rely so heavily on those numbers. they're more like guidelines. and the averages are dragged up by people with high gpas. so a 3.7 median doesnt say all that much necessarily. It will depend on the firm.

[cookiejar1]

I wouldn't bid the v5 outside of Skadden with a 3.5 but that's just me

[Anonymous User]

Consensus seemed to be skadden had a 3.6 floor in Chicago last year and I don't think new York is less selective.

[jbagelboy]

Consensus seemed to be skadden had a 3.6 floor in Chicago last year and I don't think new York is less selective.

NY usually is less selective actually. Skadden LA/DC/Chi are all tougher offices from most schools, assuming NU is the same way.

[Anonymous User]

With regard to your question about medians etc, its just not that mathematical of a process but thats on the right track. the problem is that most minimums won't tell you much because there might be one 3.2 and everyone else is 3.8 and above. So you cant rely so heavily on those numbers. they're more like guidelines. and the averages are dragged up by people with high gpas. so a 3.7 median doesnt say all that much necessarily. It will depend on the firm.

Also depends on Lit vs. Trans (with the former much more difficult outside of NYC), and backgrounds/diversity.

[Anonymous User]

I would hesitate to put too many eggs in the Chicago basket. I knew quite a few people that did that and struck out. But focus on nyc with your gpa.

The problem is there are only 9 NYC offices that have medians within .2 of my GPA. If I include Chicago as well, that opens up 9 offices. Are you saying that, for example, I should ditch these Chicago offices in favor of NYC firms with medians .3-4 above my GPA (but where I'm still above the historic cutoff)?

Here's my initial post, for reference:

3.27, could really use some advice on whether I should stick close to my GPA in 2-3 markets, or bid NYC exclusively and include more than a few reach firms.

There are only so many NYC offices with larger classes that seem attainable (i.e., have medians ~.2 above my GPA). At the same time, there are a good number of Chicago offices that are within that range, although with smaller classes. Given the common advice to bid NYC with large classes, is it worth going with more reach firms in NYC at the expense of these Chicago offices, or should I bid both markets and keep as close as possible to my GPA? Bidding both would lower the medians I’m up against, but I wonder what it will cost me.

Additionally, I have solid, family/WE ties in 1-2 secondary markets that seem to have much lower medians. Is it suicide to add these?

[Anonymous User]

From directly applicable experience, if you have 3.5 + LR (not sure if it really matters if you don't have LR but I can't comment on that) and you express strong interest in transactional work, you are above the GPA floors for every Chicago office with the exception of maybe Skadden (I think it's closer to 3.6) and Latham (Same).

So if you have 3.5+ you are above the cut-offs for pretty much everywhere but keep in mind that you are just above the cut-off and that's nothing to write home about so you probably want to take a balanced approach with bidding NYC in there.

EDIT: as indicated previously, there is a significant difference in GPAs for litigation (much harder in Chicago at least our year) vs. transactional (much easier to get in Chicago than litigation our year). Keep that in mind. If you want to do litigation in Chicago and you have a 3.5 it would be pretty risky to go all in for Chicago, but transactional wouldn't be nearly as risky.

[Anonymous User]

To the extent that it's helpful here's my bid list from Northwestern's 2014 OCI. Note that this is just one data point and that you shouldn't use this to set expectations (i.e., don't expect firms to drop just because they dropped for me) but if you're looking at the old threads it might be helpful to know what hit and what didn't. Strikethroughs are firms that I didn't get. Top 10%.

01 KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP (Chicago)
02 sidley austin llp (Chicago)
03 MORRISON & FOERSTER LLP (SF)
04 GIBSON DUNN & CRUTCHER LLP (LA)
05 FENWICK & WEST LLP (SV)
06 WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI (PA)
07 IRELL & MANELLA LLP (LA)
08 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP (LA)
09 CRAVATH SWAINE & MOORE LLP (NY)
10 WEIL GOTSHAL & MANGES LLP (NY)
11 CLIFFORD CHANCE US LLP (NY)
12 Gunderson Dettmer STOUGH VILLENEUVE FRANKLIN & HACHIGIAN LLP (SV)
13 DAVIS POLK & WARDWELL (NY)
14 DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON LLP (NY)
15 SCHULTE ROTH & ZABEL LLP (NY)
16 O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP (LA)
17 CAHILL GORDON & REINDEL (NY)
18 SIMPSON THACHER & bartlett llp (NY)
19 CLEARY GOTTLIEB STEEN & HAMILTON LLP (NY)
20 SULLIVAN & CROMWELL LLP (NY)
21 BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP (NY)
22 PAUL WEISS RIFKIND WHARTON & GARRISON LLP (NY)
23 BARACK FERRAZZANO KIRSCHBAUM & NAGELBERG LLP (Chicago)
24 GRIPPO & ELDEN LLC (Chicago)
25 MILBANK TWEED HADLEY & MCCLOY LLP (NY)
26 CADWALADER WICKERSHAM & TAFT LLP (NY)
27 PROSKAUER (LA)
28 PAUL HASTINGS (LA)
29 goodwin procter llp (??)
30 COVINGTON & BURLING (DC)
31 WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY LLP (DC)
32 WILMERHALE (DC)
33 WILLKIE FARR & GALLAGHER LLP (NY)
34 FRIED FRANK HARRIS SHRIVER & JACOBSON LLP (NY)
35 VINSON & ELKINS LLP (Dallas)
36 BAKER BOTTS LLP (Dallas)
37 EDELSON LLC (Chicago)

[Anonymous User]

I would hesitate to put too many eggs in the Chicago basket. I knew quite a few people that did that and struck out. But focus on nyc with your gpa.

The problem is there are only 9 NYC offices that have medians within .2 of my GPA. If I include Chicago as well, that opens up 9 offices. Are you saying that, for example, I should ditch these Chicago offices in favor of NYC firms with medians .3-4 above my GPA (but where I'm still above the historic cutoff)?

Here's my initial post, for reference:

3.27, could really use some advice on whether I should stick close to my GPA in 2-3 markets, or bid NYC exclusively and include more than a few reach firms.

There are only so many NYC offices with larger classes that seem attainable (i.e., have medians ~.2 above my GPA). At the same time, there are a good number of Chicago offices that are within that range, although with smaller classes. Given the common advice to bid NYC with large classes, is it worth going with more reach firms in NYC at the expense of these Chicago offices, or should I bid both markets and keep as close as possible to my GPA? Bidding both would lower the medians I’m up against, but I wonder what it will cost me.

Additionally, I have solid, family/WE ties in 1-2 secondary markets that seem to have much lower medians. Is it suicide to add these?

Depending on how your class bids . . . you should be able to bid both non-selective Chicago/NYC in your top 10 if you're willing to sacrifice interviews with the school's sweet hearts (KE/Sidley/etc) which is what I think you should do.

Try to squeeze everything into a ranked bid list and let's take a look.

[Anonymous User]

To the extent that it's helpful here's my bid list from Northwestern's 2014 OCI. Note that this is just one data point and that you shouldn't use this to set expectations (i.e., don't expect firms to drop just because they dropped for me) but if you're looking at the old threads it might be helpful to know what hit and what didn't. Strikethroughs are firms that I didn't get. Top 10%.

01 KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP (Chicago)
02 SIDLEY AUSTIN LLP (Chicago)
03 MORRISON & FOERSTER LLP (SF)
04 GIBSON DUNN & CRUTCHER LLP (LA)
05 FENWICK & WEST LLP (SV)
06 WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI (PA)
07 IRELL & MANELLA LLP (LA)
08 LATHAM & WATKINS LLP (LA)
09 CRAVATH SWAINE & MOORE LLP (NY)
10 WEIL GOTSHAL & MANGES LLP (NY)
11 CLIFFORD CHANCE US LLP (NY)
12 GUNDERSON DETTMER STOUGH VILLENEUVE FRANKLIN & HACHIGIAN LLP (SV)
13 DAVIS POLK & WARDWELL (NY)
14 DEBEVOISE & PLIMPTON LLP (NY)
15 SCHULTE ROTH & ZABEL LLP (NY)
16 O'MELVENY & MYERS LLP (LA)
17 CAHILL GORDON & REINDEL (NY)
18 SIMPSON THACHER & BARTLETT LLP (NY)
19 CLEARY GOTTLIEB STEEN & HAMILTON LLP (NY)
20 SULLIVAN & CROMWELL LLP (NY)
21 BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP (NY)
22 PAUL WEISS RIFKIND WHARTON & GARRISON LLP (NY)
23 BARACK FERRAZZANO KIRSCHBAUM & NAGELBERG LLP (Chicago)
24 GRIPPO & ELDEN LLC (Chicago)
25 MILBANK TWEED HADLEY & MCCLOY LLP (NY)
26 CADWALADER WICKERSHAM & TAFT LLP (NY)
27 PROSKAUER (LA)
28 PAUL HASTINGS (LA)
29 GOODWIN PROCTER LLP (??)
30 COVINGTON & BURLING (DC)
31 WILLIAMS & CONNOLLY LLP (DC)
32 WILMERHALE (DC)
33 WILLKIE FARR & GALLAGHER LLP (NY)
34 FRIED FRANK HARRIS SHRIVER & JACOBSON LLP (NY)
35 VINSON & ELKINS LLP (Dallas)
36 BAKER BOTTS LLP (Dallas)
37 EDELSON LLC (Chicago)

This is really helpful, thanks! Does anyone else have their last year's bid list that they'd be willing to share, complete with info on what firms you got/didn't get? I feel a bit lost in terms of what firms are likely to go at what ranking, given that NU doesn't give us the bidding information from previous years like other schools seem to do.

[Cobretti]

Here is last year's thread on the day results came out:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=375

[BaberhamLincoln]

Hey all
I'm transferring in and was wondering if you guys can post the timeline/deadlines for non-transfer kids? It may be different for us but I wanted to see and can't access my NU stuff quite yet

[snapdragon25]

Bidding is open from 7/13-7/27 and OCI is 8/10-21.

[Anonymous User]

3.29, looking for feedback. Trying to play it as safe as possible, so let me know what I should add/shift/remove.

Code: Select all

1	 Weil Gotshal & Manges LLP --------------------- (NYC) (60)
2	 Fried Frank Harris Shriver & Jacobson LLP ----- (NYC) (40)
3	 Shearman & Sterling LLP ----------------------- (NYC) (40)
4	 Milbank Tweed Hadley & McCloy LLP ------------- (NYC) (40)
5	 Willkie Farr & Gallagher LLP ------------------ (NYC) (40)
6	 O'Melveny & Myers LLP ------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
7	 [url=https://www.lawcrossing.com/lawfirmprofile/K7js8/Katten-Muchin-Rosenman-LLP/]katten muchin rosenman llp[/url] -------------------- (Chi) (40)
8	 [url=https://www.lawcrossing.com/article/7474/Schiff-Hardin-LLP/]schiff hardin llp[/url] ----------------------------- (Chi) (80)*
9	 Alston & Bird LLP ----------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
10	Vedder Price Kaufman & Kammholz PC ------------ (Chi) (20)
11	Cahill Gordon & Reindel ----------------------- (NYC) (20)
12	Kaye Scholer LLP ------------------------------ (NYC) (20)
13	McDermott Will & Emory LLP -------------------- (Chi) (80)
14	Proskauer ------------------------------------- (NYC) (20)
15	White & Case LLP ------------------------------ (NYC) (20)
16	Locke Lord Bissel & Liddell LLP --------------- (Chi) (20)*
17	Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP	 ----------------- (Chi) (31)*
18	Dechert LLP ----------------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
19	Dentons US LLP -------------------------------- (Chi) (11)
20	Reed [url=https://www.lawcrossing.com/lawfirmprofile/Kr01h/Smith-LLP/]Smith LLP[/url] -------------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
21	[url=https://www.lawcrossing.com/lawfirmprofile/K7gm9/Gunderson-Dettmer/]Gunderson Dettmer[/url] ----------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
22	Seward & Kissel LLP --------------------------- (NYC) (20)
23	Foley & Lardner LLP --------------------------- (NYC) (20)*
24	[url=https://www.lawcrossing.com/lawfirmprofile/K7gWj/Dykema-Gossett-PLLC/]dykema gossett pllc[/url] --------------------------- (Chi) (20)
25	Pircher Nichols & Meeks ----------------------- (Chi) (20)

* Multi-office slots.

[BaberhamLincoln]

Thank you snap

[cookiejar1]

3.29, looking for feedback. Trying to play it as safe as possible, so let me know what I should add/shift/remove.

I think you did well selecting firms although I think your ranking can be better. Weil, Fried Frank, Shearman, Milbank, and Willkie are too high. You could maybe drop them almost 10 spots and still feel confident about picking them up. I think you need to be more careful trying to secure NYC classes with only 20 spots like Proskauer and White & Case. Move those babies up. I think all your Chicago firms need to go up too. No shot at Dentons @ 19, especially if they only have 11 interview slots. All multi-office bids are going to be tricky. Foley @ 23 is impossible since Chicago kids will bid them too and there's only 20 spots.

I think you should also consider Sidley Austin NYC, Cadwalader, Linklaters and maybe Paul Hastings too.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks a lot! I'll tinker around with it and post back.

[Anonymous User]

3.71, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

1 Cleary Gottlieb New York
2 Skadden New York
3 Simpson Thacher New York
4 Weil Gotshal New York
5 Paul Weiss New York
6 Sullivan & Cromwell New York
7 White & Case New York
8 Latham & Watkins New York
9 Davis Polk New York
10 Paul Hastings New York
11 Wachtell New York
12 Cravath New York
13 Debevoise & Plimpton New York
14 Sidley Austin New York
15 Boies Schiller New York
16 Jenner & Block Chicago
17 Skadden Chicago
18 Allen & Overy New York
19 Freshfields Bruckhaus New York
20 Linklaters New York
21 Clifford Chance New York
22 Curtis Mallet New York
23 Baker & McKenzie Chicago
24 Katten Muchin Chicago
25 Winston & Strawn Chicago

[Cobretti]

3.71, any advice would be greatly appreciated!

1 Cleary Gottlieb New York
2 Skadden New York
3 Simpson Thacher New York
4 Weil Gotshal New York
5 Paul Weiss New York
6 Sullivan & Cromwell New York
7 White & Case New York
8 Latham & Watkins New York
9 Davis Polk New York
10 Paul Hastings New York
11 Wachtell New York
12 Cravath New York
13 Debevoise & Plimpton New York
14 Sidley Austin New York
15 Boies Schiller New York
16 Jenner & Block Chicago
17 Skadden Chicago
18 Allen & Overy New York
19 Freshfields Bruckhaus New York
20 Linklaters New York
21 Clifford Chance New York
22 Curtis Mallet New York
23 Baker & McKenzie Chicago
24 Katten Muchin Chicago
25 Winston & Strawn Chicago

You gotta remember the more selective a firm is the fewer people will bid on it. All of your top 10 will be available much later, but right now you aren't going to get any of the Chicago firms or the less selective NY firms you have at the bottom. I'd move those up top and push the NY v10 down.

[Anonymous User]

That makes sense. Thank you!

[Anonymous User]

General question, does anyone have any thoughts on what its like to work in a firm's non-primary office? (e.g. Kirkland's NY office). Any specific reason why this would be a bad/good idea?

[Anonymous User]

Plz help i dont know how to do this

gpa: over 4.0
ties: all chicago
practice area: transactional

1. Baker & McKenzie: Chicago
2. Sidley Austin: Chicago
3. Kirkland & Ellis: Chicago
4. Mayer Brown: Chicago
5. DLA Piper: Chicago
6. Jones Day: Chicago
7. Latham & Watkins: Chicago
8. Skadden: Chicago
9. Winston & Strawn: Chicago
10. McDermott Will & Emery: Chicago
11. Proskauer: Chicago
12. Katten Muchin Rosemann: Chicago
13. dykema gossett pllc: Chicago
14. Jenner & Block: Chicago
15. Foley & Lardner: Chicago
16. K&L Gates: Chicago
17. Schiff Hardin
19. Simpson & Thatcher: New York
20. Sullivan & Cromwell: New York
21. Cravath: New York
22. Paul Weiss: New York
23. Proskauer: New York
24. Wilkie Farr: New York
25. Barrack Ferrazono: Chicago
26. Ropes & Gray: New York
27. Shearman & Sterling: New York
28. Baker Botts LLP
29. Dentons: Chicago
30. Dechert LLP: Chicago
31. Greenberg Traurig: Chicago
32. McGuire Woods: Chicago
33. Chapman & Cutler: Chicago
34. Miller Shakman & Beem: Chicago
35. Paul Hastings: Chicago
36. Perkins Coie: Chicago
37. Seyfarth Shaw: Chicago
38. Sidley Austin: New York
39. Reinhart Boerner Van Deuren: Milwaukee
40. Michael Best & Friedrich: Milwaukee
41 (extra). Michael Best & Friedrich: Chicago

[Dr. Filth]

I think Katten Chicago went in the top 5 last year.