COLA at top firms in London? Would it help with loans? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm thinking about targeting London offices of US firms during OCI.

Putting aside all of the conversations about securing the position and the nature of the work, I've had trouble tracking down current information about firm cost of living adjustments. My understanding is that it can be a significant sum on top of one's salary. I have asked around and it sounds like a few firms have recently raised their rates.

Can anyone give up to date info on COLAs for v10 firms with London offices?

Also - anyone with experience in London - is the cost of living (and extra tax hit) that much worse than NY? Could starting in London with a big COLA help significantly with loans?

[Anonymous User]

Davis Polk pays roughly ~100k on top of ny market/bonus. Cravath is about the same. If you stay between 18 months and 2 years I believe it is a tax benefit not a hit to be over there. It does help with loans since the same percentage of your income dedicated to loans is a higher gross amount.

Everything in London costs roughly the same as it does in NY, it's just in pounds not dollars so adjusted it is about 1.7x.

[Anonymous User]

so 280-290k in dollars first year working on London? and English juniors get paid 100k in pounds? Do you have to move permanently?

[Anonymous User]

so 280-290k in dollars first year working on London? and English juniors get paid 100k in pounds? Do you have to move permanently?

That's right for US lawyers, I have no idea what English juniors make only that it is significantly less (though they have less debt and firms pay for some education and COL things while they are trainees). English juniors might be paid in dollars too though, depends if the London office is registered as a US entity or not.

You don't have to move permanently at least not from what I can see. Most attorneys there are doing 2 year rotations though many like it and stay longer. The partners tend to be in those offices permanently.

[Anonymous User]

Why doesn't 280k as a first year get talked about more than it does?

I am seriously considering this.

I believe K&E and STB are lower COLAs by a good bit. K&E has bigger bonus opportunity, but still worse off

[Anonymous User]

If you're only just now considering London and your OCI is about to start, you really should just stop right there. Moving to London to get a slight boost with COLAs is an incredibly stupid idea. You will be pigeonholing yourself in a niche area of capital markets work that will define your entire career. You also need a convincing reason to want to be there to really have a chance at all, because you can be sure that most of the firms hiring for London have been burned in the past by law school students wanting a 2-year vacation that ended up getting cold feet and running back to the US.

[Anonymous User]

Why doesn't 280k as a first year get talked about more than it does?

I am seriously considering this.

I believe K&E and STB are lower COLAs by a good bit. K&E has bigger bonus opportunity, but still worse off

Because there are very few positions and most all of them require (though not explicitly) that you have some sort of international experience (see above). These firms are incredibly wary of wasting their time, money and resources on people who are going to jump ship before a couple years have passed. If you haven't lived abroad and/or don't have language skills, it's a very difficult job to get in my experience (and I've done significant research on it).

[Anonymous User]

Do the London-based (think magic circle) firms offer similar COLA for US junior associates starting in London?

[Anonymous User]

Some Magic Circle firms pay a small COLA but nowhere near the COLA that US firms pay.

Honestly it's hard to keep which ones do and don't straight. Really only FF and Linklaters hire any significant quantity of Americans. A&O and CC hire Americans occasionally. Slaughter & May doesn't at all.

[Anonymous User]

To the anon talking about pigeonholing in a niche area of cap markets: There are several well known NY firms that have huge cap markets practices, why is London inherently bad for people who were going to do that work over here anyway? The experience in London offices is like 98% transferable back to a US cap markets practice and in some cases very transferable to US M&A.

[Anonymous User]

What is the work like in terms of hours and culture for the NYC firms with London offices?

I know the substance of the work tends to be narrow and specialized of course.

[Anonymous User]

To the anon talking about pigeonholing in a niche area of cap markets: There are several well known NY firms that have huge cap markets practices, why is London inherently bad for people who were going to do that work over here anyway? The experience in London offices is like 98% transferable back to a US cap markets practice and in some cases very transferable to US M&A.

I'm curious about your response to this, because what you voiced was my concern with London work.

A lot of the London offices of U.S. firms, from what I understand, do 98% high-yield debt work. Isn't that a lot more niche than capital markets generally at a U.S. firm, featuring not just high-yield debt, but investment-grade debt, equity, and so on? Yes, high-yield debt is relevant to acquisition finance, but how would it help you as an M&A lawyer?

Genuinely curious - if it does help me as an M&A lawyer, I'd love to know that

[RedGiant]

I worked at CSM in London as a paralegal. Yes, there's a lot of high yield debt work. It's very profitable. It's transferable to general capital markets work (I went on to work in Silicon Valley doing a lot of equity work). I also had an M&A background before I went to London for CSM (came from banking, worked in an M&A group at CSM in NY too). I would say that writing the business section and risk factors for a high yield deal are helpful for understanding how certain industries work. Is it directly applicable to how you'd negotiate an M&A deal (Stock purchase agmt, for instance)? No. But it is helpful to show you metrics, what worries the Co, and how you'd probably need to keep that in mind as you draft reps and warranties and covenants in an M&A group.

One think I will point out--most London associates pretty much end up with a NY-centric skillset, which is fine, since you likely will have taken the NY bar. But bear in mind that really mostly NY will want you after you want to come home (if you come home--lots of my friends married Brits and stayed).

If you want more info on the UK law firm scene, check out rollonfriday. It's a UK website that's sort of like an ATL-Vault-TLS combo with a lot of info on salaries, hiring practices, etc. for UK-based law students and it does shed light on how things are done over there in terms of training contracts and whatnot.

I lived in London twice post-college. It's awesome. Great travel opps, double the vacation you'd get in the US (by law), fun times with cultural snafus, really vibrant expat scene. Loved it. I regret I didn't stay longer. Seriously.

[Anonymous User]

Do you get COLA for as long as you are with CSM in London? How does this work?

[Anonymous User]

I work in the London office of a US firm (not really up to date on V rankings but it's probably around V15 - not sure though). Our firm pays UK and US associates/counsel the same, and there is a small COlA bump but it's not much - it helps with the loans etc (which UK lawyers don't have). London costs about the same as NY for rentals, etc - most of the US lawyers here live in more expensive, central locations than most of the UK lawyers, though, so you could make it cheaper for yourself by living a little further out.
In my firm the US lawyers work mostly on corporate transactional stuff and work alongside UK lawyers. Some do funds/capital markets type stuff. The type of work would transition directly back to the corporate dept of an NY firm (and several people have left over the years to do just that). Moving back internally can be difficult because your client relationships, etc, are with the London office clients, who are often based all over the world but not necessarily in the US.
I'm not sure it's worth doing for COLA reasons. It's worth doing if you'd like the experience of living and working in London.

[Anonymous User]

Do you get COLA for as long as you are with CSM in London? How does this work?

Yes, you would get COLA in London for CSM. But they rotate associates through London, usually for only 18-24 months, so it'd not like you're staking your career in London. Also, you're pretty useless as a junior in that office, and CSM used to (although I am not sure this is the policy any longer), generally did not send any attys younger than third years over--occasionally they'd send an attorney after their first rotation, but not very many.

I would also add that depending on the market, it's a rough office in terms of hours. I was very tired when I left from many multi-day all-nighters at the printer for many weeks, but two weeks in Greece fixed me right up.