Biglaw associate taking questions Forum

[AnonAssociate]

I'm a midlevel associate at a well known big law firm on the west coast. I'm on the firm's new associate hiring committee.

If you have questions about the oci/callback process or the job search generally, I'm happy to take them.

[FSK]

My school is preselect. What will most help me convert screener into callback?

[Anonymous User]

Does your firm have a strict grade cutoff? How much does this change by schools? How flexible are you when it comes to the cutoff? Separate question: if I grew up on the west coast but went to college and law school on the east, is it still a legitimate tie to say that I want to come home (pull a LeBron)?

Thank you.

[AnonAssociate]

My school is preselect. What will most help me convert screener into callback?

During screeners, we're looking for whether you: Meet our academic requirements; Have a decent personality;Express reasonable knowledge of and interest in the firm.

If you've been preselected, then you probably don't need to worry about the first point. Focus on sharing your personality, selling your experiences and background, and asking questions that show you are interested in the firm.

Don't be fooled into thinking that preselect --> automatic callback. If you are boring or unlikeable or seem arrogant, you may not get a callback even if your grades are amazing.

[Anonymous User]

Can you go into a little more detail about fit and personality? What things have people done to really shine through? Also what types of questions can someone ask to make it seem like they are genuinely interested/have done their homework. I know things like mentioning a specific deal/case the firm has worked on, just curious if there is anything else.

[AnonAssociate]

Does your firm have a strict grade cutoff? How much does this change by schools? How flexible are you when it comes to the cutoff? Separate question: if I grew up on the west coast but went to college and law school on the east, is it still a legitimate tie to say that I want to come home (pull a LeBron)?

Thank you.

There are guidelines, and they are somewhat flexible. If the cutoff from your school is a 3.5 and you have a 3.4, you're not automatically out of the running, but you need to be particularly impressive during your screening interview.

Yes, the cutoffs vary by school. But the variations seem to be mostly a function of different schools' grading policies and the fact that you can't make apples to apples comparisons.

Yes, coming home is a totally reasonable explanation. If someone says they grew up around here, I don't need any convincing of ties beyond that.

[Anonymous User]

Can you talk about work/life balance and face time requirements at your firm, and possibly other West Coast firms in general if you can speak on it?

[Anonymous User]

Does your firm have a strict grade cutoff? How much does this change by schools? How flexible are you when it comes to the cutoff? Separate question: if I grew up on the west coast but went to college and law school on the east, is it still a legitimate tie to say that I want to come home (pull a LeBron)?

Thank you.

There are guidelines, and they are somewhat flexible. If the cutoff from your school is a 3.5 and you have a 3.4, you're not automatically out of the running, but you need to be particularly impressive during your screening interview.

Yes, the cutoffs vary by school. But the variations seem to be mostly a function of different schools' grading policies and the fact that you can't make apples to apples comparisons.

Yes, coming home is a totally reasonable explanation. If someone says they grew up around here, I don't need any convincing of ties beyond that.

Thank you. Apart from the varying medians and honors for each school, does that general cutoff change based on HYS/CCN/T14 and so on? I'm just curious about how the cutoff is sort of determined.

[transferror]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

2) How much do cover letters matter for OCI if it's all preselect and an applicant's grades are outstanding? Will the CL matter at the screener or CB stage, or is it just a tool to secure the first interview?

[20160810]

Do you use the same cutoffs for Davis and Hastings?

[Anonymous User]

Practice group? IP? Also NorCal/SoCal may be helpful if you don't mind...

Does your firm like laterals from NY? Other eastern large but non-NY markets?

Or do you typically look primarily at laterals from other SV firms?

[Lacepiece23]

Can we ask questions about your practice? Sorry don't know if that is off topic or would ruin the thread. I've already gone through OCI, but am always eager for advice from practicing attorneys. I guess I'll ask this since it is kinda on topic. How did you get involved with hiring new associates? Is it something that is coveted? Do you think that being involved in this is beneficial to your career?

[AnonAssociate]

Thanks for your questions and sorry for the delay in answering. I realized I could give you better answers if I wasn't typing on my phone.

I don't want to answer many questions about my background - sorry. I care about my own anonymity, and I also want to respect the privacy and confidentiality of my firm's hiring process and policies.

I got a lot of guidance from TLS back when I was in law school. Some of it was really helpful, and some of it was the blind leading the blind. So I'm here to try to repay the favor as a TLSer with some insight into the process, not as a 6th year San Francisco Quinn IP litigator or a 3rd year Seattle Fenwick private funds associate or whatever.

One more overarching comment before I get to your questions - authenticity is really important to the process. I'll give you advice on personality and questions to ask and whatever else you want to know. But you should remember that the people on the other side of the interview desk are people. We can tell when we're being lied to someone's putting on an act. So use your interviews to sell your intelligence and work ethic and let (the best version of) your actual personality shine through; don't try to put on an act.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for your questions and sorry for the delay in answering. I realized I could give you better answers if I wasn't typing on my phone.

I don't want to answer many questions about my background - sorry. I care about my own anonymity, and I also want to respect the privacy and confidentiality of my firm's hiring process and policies.

I got a lot of guidance from TLS back when I was in law school. Some of it was really helpful, and some of it was the blind leading the blind. So I'm here to try to repay the favor as a TLSer with some insight into the process, not as a 6th year San Francisco Quinn IP litigator or a 3rd year Seattle Fenwick private funds associate or whatever.

One more overarching comment before I get to your questions - authenticity is really important to the process. I'll give you advice on personality and questions to ask and whatever else you want to know. But you should remember that the people on the other side of the interview desk are people. We can tell when we're being lied to someone's putting on an act. So use your interviews to sell your intelligence and work ethic and let (the best version of) your actual personality shine through; don't try to put on an act.

Thanks for doing this!

How do you typically start off a screener or callback? What are you sizing up in an interviewee during the first 2-3 minutes, and what sorts of questions do you ask off the bat to gauge a first impression?

Second, how do view people coming from east coast schools, versus people from Boalt/etc.? I go to a New York T6, but grew up in California. Are grades seen any differently? Do you like seeing people coming back from the east coast?

[AnonAssociate]

Can you go into a little more detail about fit and personality? What things have people done to really shine through? Also what types of questions can someone ask to make it seem like they are genuinely interested/have done their homework. I know things like mentioning a specific deal/case the firm has worked on, just curious if there is anything else.

Firms are going to differ in what they're looking for in terms of fit and personality. Firms and groups absolutely develop personalities - some are fratty, some are preppy, some are scholarly, etc. The smaller the firm or group is, the more cohesive it's likely to be. You can probably get a sense for whether a firm/group has a strong personality style from the interviews. You can mold your personality somewhat to fit in the group - if your interviewers are telling stories about partying with their coworkers, you can emphasize the more fun, social aspects of your personality. But be careful not to get yourself stuck in a job where you're not going to fit in at all.

Questions: I would not recommend that you mention cases the firm has worked on. If someone does that with me, my internal reaction is sort of "oh congrats, you know how to google." If you are genuinely interested in a specific case or area of the law, then feel free to ask about it. But if you're really just asking to show that you did your research, don't bother.

The best questions you can ask are questions you want to know the answer to, not questions that show that you're smart or did your research or whatever. Feel free to ask what their favorite/least favorite/most surprising part of the job is. Ask what kind of experience you get at each level. Ask what kind of deals or cases they're working on. You'll get a good conversation going, and you'll learn relevant information.

Also, you can use the interview process to learn more about the firm. As I mentioned above, a lot of times students name drop some basic info they learned about the firm from googling or TLS or whatever, and it doesn't impress me at all. You need to ask a real question about what you've researched; otherwise it's irrelevant to the conversation. I'm more impressed by a student who says, "I've researched the firm, but it's hard to get a sense for what actually makes the firm different from other firms. Why did you decide to come here?" Or "I've read that the firm prides itself on [training / mentorship / early partner contact / whatever]. How does that actually play out in practice? Has it made a difference for you?"

[AnonAssociate]

Can you talk about work/life balance and face time requirements at your firm, and possibly other West Coast firms in general if you can speak on it?

Certainly face time is not a big deal, and I get the sense that west coast firms tend to be more chill about that kind of thing than east coast firms. But it's hard to generalize beyond that. My work/life balance is totally different from my coworkers who work for other partners or in other practice groups.

The best advice I can give you on this is to be careful when asking work-life related questions too early in the interview process.

[AnonAssociate]

Does your firm have a strict grade cutoff? How much does this change by schools? How flexible are you when it comes to the cutoff? Separate question: if I grew up on the west coast but went to college and law school on the east, is it still a legitimate tie to say that I want to come home (pull a LeBron)?

Thank you.

There are guidelines, and they are somewhat flexible. If the cutoff from your school is a 3.5 and you have a 3.4, you're not automatically out of the running, but you need to be particularly impressive during your screening interview.

Yes, the cutoffs vary by school. But the variations seem to be mostly a function of different schools' grading policies and the fact that you can't make apples to apples comparisons.

Yes, coming home is a totally reasonable explanation. If someone says they grew up around here, I don't need any convincing of ties beyond that.

Thank you. Apart from the varying medians and honors for each school, does that general cutoff change based on HYS/CCN/T14 and so on? I'm just curious about how the cutoff is sort of determined.

Like I said, it differs by school mostly because the schools have totally different grading policies. Now, if you're asking whether we accept a lower class ranking from Harvard than we do from Minnesota - I don't know for sure, but almost definitely yes. Do we accept a lower class ranking from Harvard than we do from Duke? I don't know for sure, but probably not.

[AnonAssociate]

Thanks for this.

1) If someone has no ties to a market other than attending law school in the area, how can they sell themselves as wanting to practice there? What would you do in that situation or what would sell you as an interviewer?

2) How much do cover letters matter for OCI if it's all preselect and an applicant's grades are outstanding? Will the CL matter at the screener or CB stage, or is it just a tool to secure the first interview?

If someone lived in this area for at least a few years - whether they grew up here, went to undergrad here, went to law school here - I'll believe them when they say they want to live here. It's a pretty believable story that you always wanted to move to [x town], and that's why you came to law school here, and you're loving it and want to stay.

The people who have a real problem (with me) are the ones who have never lived here.

As someone who does OCI interviews, callback interviews, and hiring committee meetings, I have never seen a cover letter. So I have no idea how they're treated at other firms, but I'm guessing that at my firm, it's a formality that only HR ever sees.

[AnonAssociate]

Do you use the same cutoffs for Davis and Hastings?

I don't know the cutoffs for those two schools. Why do you ask?

[AnonAssociate]

Practice group? IP? Also NorCal/SoCal may be helpful if you don't mind...

Does your firm like laterals from NY? Other eastern large but non-NY markets?

Or do you typically look primarily at laterals from other SV firms?

I'm only involved in new hires, so I dont know for sure. From what I see, nearly all of our laterals come from other offices of our firm. But I can't think of any reason we'd favor or disfavor NY associates.

[AnonAssociate]

Can we ask questions about your practice? Sorry don't know if that is off topic or would ruin the thread. I've already gone through OCI, but am always eager for advice from practicing attorneys. I guess I'll ask this since it is kinda on topic. How did you get involved with hiring new associates? Is it something that is coveted? Do you think that being involved in this is beneficial to your career?

I expressed enthusiasm for recruiting and other activities involving law students, so I assume that's why they invited me. I think it helps somewhat - I have benefitted from stepping up and doing various kinds of non-billable work for the firm; I think it shows that I care about the firm and am willing to chip in to make it better. But of course, that kind of thing only matters if you're doing good billable work.

[AnonAssociate]

Thanks for your questions and sorry for the delay in answering. I realized I could give you better answers if I wasn't typing on my phone.

I don't want to answer many questions about my background - sorry. I care about my own anonymity, and I also want to respect the privacy and confidentiality of my firm's hiring process and policies.

I got a lot of guidance from TLS back when I was in law school. Some of it was really helpful, and some of it was the blind leading the blind. So I'm here to try to repay the favor as a TLSer with some insight into the process, not as a 6th year San Francisco Quinn IP litigator or a 3rd year Seattle Fenwick private funds associate or whatever.

One more overarching comment before I get to your questions - authenticity is really important to the process. I'll give you advice on personality and questions to ask and whatever else you want to know. But you should remember that the people on the other side of the interview desk are people. We can tell when we're being lied to someone's putting on an act. So use your interviews to sell your intelligence and work ethic and let (the best version of) your actual personality shine through; don't try to put on an act.

Thanks for doing this!

How do you typically start off a screener or callback? What are you sizing up in an interviewee during the first 2-3 minutes, and what sorts of questions do you ask off the bat to gauge a first impression?

Second, how do view people coming from east coast schools, versus people from Boalt/etc.? I go to a New York T6, but grew up in California. Are grades seen any differently? Do you like seeing people coming back from the east coast?

You're welcome! I hope it helps.

I usually start it with small talk to try to make the person feel comfortable. I think the best interviews are ones where we're having a natural, enjoyable getting to know you conversation. I'm not sizing the person up the whole time - I'm more just looking for a general sense at the end of the meeting. Did I like them? Would I want to talk to them again? Were they smart? Were they reasonably enthusiastic about legal practice? Etc. I'm not sitting there evaluating the response to each question.

It doesn't make a big difference to me what school someone goes to or where it's located (with the caveat that I only ever see people from 10-15 schools). But NYU vs UVA vs UCLA? I don't care.

[bulinus]

Cover letters - aside from being free of fuckups and nominally coherent, do you ever care?

[AnonAssociate]

Cover letters - aside from being free of fuckups and nominally coherent, do you ever care?

Have never seen one.

[1l2016]

Thanks for doing this! Let's say your firm has 1 SA position. How many screeners do you give for that position? How about callbacks?