V5 first year - corp taking ? s before considering quitting Forum

[bk1]

Reminder: if you are a 0L asking questions, please use the "ask a student/grad" forum.

[Anonymous User]

Just curious, can anyone speak to typical TX transactional biglaw hours requirements? I have heard that it isn't quite as much of a grind in Texas.

I'm a second year transactional lawyer in TX biglaw. There are times when aspects of what the OP said is true, but, in general, I haven't found Texas biglaw to be nearly as unbearable as my counterparts in NY. It's hard to articulate the precise differences, but, at least at my firm, everyone just wants to get home to their dogs/spouses/kids as quickly as possible, so there is no expectation that you stick around just because the senior associate or partner is still at work. You check in with them to make sure there's nothing else you can do, and then you leave. If something comes up, you work from home. I mostly do M&A, so the scanner/printer access thing is less important, but the cap markets people I know often use one of those iPad PDF editor apps to get by when they're not at the office.

I've gotten very substantive work since I started, mostly on large deals but also on a handful of mid-size deals. While it's hard to judge, I think I've gotten fantastic experience over the last year and a half, even (or perhaps especially) compared to my counterparts in our NYC office.

That being said, 6 months in was definitely the low point of my (admittedly short) career thus far. I'm orders of magnitude happier with my job now than I was then.

What is your sense of exit options for transactional TX biglaw associates who have put in 4+ years? Are decent in-house positions something that are available to most people ordo most people end up going another route?

Thanks again!

Everyone I've known (or known of) that has left the corporate department at my firm has left to go in house at good jobs. From what I've seen, if you put in 4-5 years and get good experience, you can go in house making north of $150k and have a fairly regular 8-6 job where you never work weekends. Seems like a good deal to me.

[Anonymous User]

What is your sense of exit options for transactional TX biglaw associates who have put in 4+ years? Are decent in-house positions something that are available to most people ordo most people end up going another route?

Thanks again!

for what it's worth, i know someone that left one of the big 3 (houston branch) to go in-house, and came back because they hated the in-house gig. i also saw way more 8th and 9th years in texas (dallas).

[Anonymous User]

I've read this whole thread and I wanted to tell the OP that it does, in fact, get better. Swears. Part of being a first-year is that you are not super-skilled at subtle pushback yet. You may currently work for an especially workaholic partner (or four) or a senior associate who is going to ride you all the way to partnership. The thing is, you need to book a vacation immediately. IMMEDIATELY. Because you are just a cog in the wheel, now's the best time to tell everyone that you're taking 10 days off around the 4th of July. Then do it. You'll have something to look forward to--it will change your outlook. Go get a tan and some sleep.

Don't believe that your exit options are so dire either. They're not. Just make sure you're getting some good general corporate experience (not just DD or helping with offering backup books/running the master) and you'll be able to lateral in-house, not just to a bank.

Also, really, I know you feel as though you just can't NOT answer a partner's email, but it's OK to go to the gym for an hour. It is. Just put an internal OOO reply saying that you're in a meeting, and have your assistant cover for you. Come back in an hour (not with wet hair, and not red like a tomato). Sometimes you need some "you" time to get through the worst weeks in biglaw.

I once worked more than three months without a day off. And I worked late, and hard for nearly all of those days. I was a bleak shell of my former self, but then I took a vacation.

Transactional work is up and down. Sometimes you're on great teams, other times you work for sociopaths and your clients are pains in the asses. Don't internalize it. Work on letting it all roll off of you. I know you fantasize about a normal 9-5 job. Surely you do. But those people work hard (not as hard!) and get paid 1/3 of what you do. That's not what you want.

Oh, and you can lateral at the end of your first year. Just switch geographies and tell the firms you're interviewing with that your SO has a job in the area. Then magically break up with your SO before you start work. I've seen it done multiple times. Just know that once you lateral once, you need to put a few years in there. Can't do it twice.

Seriously--take care of yourself. You don't need to be a martyr, but quitting is not your best option here. At the very least, for the love, get thee to a doctor and take paid stress leave (also have seen that done, but it's not career-enhancing).

[Anonymous User]

Have you thought about getting out of NYC? You could go to a smaller firm and get by billing 160-170 hours a month in a lot of cities and I bet they'd love to interview you with the V5 pedigree, especially if you stick it out another year or so.

I've contacted recruiters already actually just off the record conversations - not saying I'm formally looking for anything. The universal answer is you need about 2-3 years at a NYC firm before you are attractive to make the jump.

My understanding is that recruiters tend to work with people who have 2+ years, but since you're at such a top-shelf firm now you might be able to pull something off sooner. Do you have any buddies from law school who landed at smaller market or small/mid-sized firms? Maybe reach out to them and ask if they think anything might open up in their offices this year.

Recruiters tend to work with people who have 2+ years because law firms ask recruiters to find people with 2+ years experience. I.e. they get paid to find people with 2+ years. No law firm, regardless of the market, is going to pay a recruiter to find a corporate associate with 0-1 years of experience because frankly, those people are a dime a dozen and the pedigree of the law firm is meaningless if the person was there for like 1 year.

Recruiters literally won't get paid a penny for being like Hi Law Firm, I found someone with 0-1 years of experience, therefore, they won't help you

Give it a shot anyway. Everyone has a story etc. but I know if someone who switched jobs after just around 6 months (granted it was from another market to V10 NYC but a switch nonetheless so it might still be possible. NYC sounds miserable.

[desertlaw]

Just for scared law students or 0Ls out there, I will offer my two cents as a first year at a similar firm working similar hours (looking at a year of 2600-3000): I have a completely different view on satisfaction and quality of life. A lot of the work is boring, but I'm not as near as unhappy as OP. It might be my makeup, but I am guessing it has more to do with culture at my office (similar firm but I am not in NYC). There are firms out there that are different or might be better for you. That being said, you can do everything to find best firm for you, and still get screwed because it is a lot of luck. Maybe I am still too naive, though.