Unicorn Jobs Forum

[ph14]

Response post to the poster who asked what unicorn jobs were then deleted his thread. I think your question is a legitimate one (plus I already typed up my response by the time you deleted it). The term is thrown around a lot and a lot of people don't know exactly what people refer to when they use the term.

It's not a very precise term and I don't think there is an accepted definition, but here's a few positions that I think would qualify:

Elite/prestigious litigation boutiques (Keker, Bartlit, Kellogg, Susman)
Desirable government positions (e.g., AUSA, Solicitor General's Office, Office of Legal Counsel)
Legal academia (and associated fellowships, e.g., Bigelow, Climenko)
Elite/prestigious PI positions (e.g., Skadden Fellowship, impact litigation with the ACLU)
SCOTUS Clerkship, Bristow Fellowship (though these are one year positions)
Very selective biglaw firms (Irell, Munger, Wachtell, Williams & Connolly)

Please add onto the list, for the benefit of that poster and i'm sure many others with the same question.

[wert3813]

Response post to the poster who asked what unicorn jobs were then deleted his thread. I think your question is a legitimate one (plus I already typed up my response by the time you deleted it). The term is thrown around a lot and a lot of people don't know exactly what people refer to when they use the term.

It's not a very precise term and I don't think there is an accepted definition, but here's a few positions that I think would qualify:

Elite/prestigious litigation boutiques (Keker, Bartlit, Kellogg, Susman)
Desirable government positions (e.g., AUSA)
Legal academia (and associated fellowships, e.g., Bigelow, Climenko)
Elite/prestigious PI positions (e.g., Skadden Fellowship, impact litigation with the ACLU)
SCOTUS Clerkship, Bristow Fellowship (though these are one year positions)
Very selective biglaw firms (Irell, Munger, Wachtell, Williams & Connolly)

Please add onto the list, for the benefit of that poster and i'm sure many others with the same question.

IOs (UN, ICC, IJC, WB, etc.)
HR related NGOs (Amnesty International, HRW, IJM for Christians, etc.)
Sports/Movies (In-house with any league or team, HBO, NBC, the major studios)
Intl/NS Government work (CIA, DoD, State, WH, etc.)

That's what comes to mind at the moment. (I realize some of mine might be in your PI category but I thought it best make it its own category. For the 0Ls reading this.) And I define the term as a job that exists, but the uninformed thinks is massively easier to get than it actually is.

[Old Gregg]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

[ph14]

Response post to the poster who asked what unicorn jobs were then deleted his thread. I think your question is a legitimate one (plus I already typed up my response by the time you deleted it). The term is thrown around a lot and a lot of people don't know exactly what people refer to when they use the term.

It's not a very precise term and I don't think there is an accepted definition, but here's a few positions that I think would qualify:

Elite/prestigious litigation boutiques (Keker, Bartlit, Kellogg, Susman)
Desirable government positions (e.g., AUSA)
Legal academia (and associated fellowships, e.g., Bigelow, Climenko)
Elite/prestigious PI positions (e.g., Skadden Fellowship, impact litigation with the ACLU)
SCOTUS Clerkship, Bristow Fellowship (though these are one year positions)
Very selective biglaw firms (Irell, Munger, Wachtell, Williams & Connolly)

Please add onto the list, for the benefit of that poster and i'm sure many others with the same question.

IOs (UN, ICC, IJC, WB, etc.)
HR related NGOs (Amnesty International, HRW, IJM for Christians, etc.)
Sports/Movies (In-house with any league or team, HBO, NBC, the major studios)
Intl/NS Government work (CIA, DoD, State, WH, etc.)

That's what comes to mind at the moment. (I realize some of mine might be in your PI category but I thought it best make it its own category. For the 0Ls reading this.) And I define the term as a job that exists, but the uninformed thinks is massively easier to get than it actually is.

Incredibly helpful, thanks. Definitely helpful to break out the PI category for future people reading this.

[wert3813]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

Assume you're talking about doing VC/IB as supposed to working at a law firm doing VC/IB work?

I wish we had more data on the first one, but I'm sure you're probably right.

[Old Gregg]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

Assume you're talking about doing VC/IB as supposed to working at a law firm doing VC/IB work?

I wish we had more data on the first one, but I'm sure you're probably right.

Yes. It's not shocking how many corporate associates really wish they were doing the first one. And there are plenty of posts around here asking how to do it.

[wert3813]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

Assume you're talking about doing VC/IB as supposed to working at a law firm doing VC/IB work?

I wish we had more data on the first one, but I'm sure you're probably right.

Yes. It's not shocking how many corporate associates really wish they were doing the first one. And there are plenty of posts around here asking how to do it.

I think it's because so many companies are run by lawyers so people thinks it must be easy/fairly possible for lawyers to do that job, not realizing just how few of these types of corporations are out there compared to corporate lawyers. LSAT fallacy.

[jbagelboy]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

Assume you're talking about doing VC/IB as supposed to working at a law firm doing VC/IB work?

I wish we had more data on the first one, but I'm sure you're probably right.

Yes. It's not shocking how many corporate associates really wish they were doing the first one. And there are plenty of posts around here asking how to do it.

i will never understand this, if you wanted to do pe or IB why not just do it out of college

i also don't think these really qualify as "unicorn" since the trajectories are pretty stable (even if the jobs themselves are horrible)

[UMich11]

Inhouse quasi-business quasi-legal executive position
private equity (lots of boners here over being a PE dude...)
investment banking
venture capital

Assume you're talking about doing VC/IB as supposed to working at a law firm doing VC/IB work?

I wish we had more data on the first one, but I'm sure you're probably right.

Yes. It's not shocking how many corporate associates really wish they were doing the first one. And there are plenty of posts around here asking how to do it.

i will never understand this, if you wanted to do pe or IB why not just do it out of college

i also don't think these really qualify as "unicorn" since the trajectories are pretty stable (even if the jobs themselves are horrible)

did it out of college, loved it, realized that over 50% of the people i was working with had JD and not MBAs --> was told to forego the MBA and do JD, doing the LS gig then Big law (hopefully) and back to the industry likely. working in-house PEG/VC this summer as a 1L and hoping to make the connections so i can make the jump 2-3 years after LS once i have the firm experience in hand. --> i think if any, that's the way to do it.

[Bigbub75]

Response post to the poster who asked what unicorn jobs were then deleted his thread. I think your question is a legitimate one (plus I already typed up my response by the time you deleted it). The term is thrown around a lot and a lot of people don't know exactly what people refer to when they use the term.

It's not a very precise term and I don't think there is an accepted definition, but here's a few positions that I think would qualify:

Elite/prestigious litigation boutiques (Keker, Bartlit, Kellogg, Susman)
Desirable government positions (e.g., AUSA, Solicitor General's Office, Office of Legal Counsel)
Legal academia (and associated fellowships, e.g., Bigelow, Climenko)
Elite/prestigious PI positions (e.g., Skadden Fellowship, impact litigation with the ACLU)
SCOTUS Clerkship, Bristow Fellowship (though these are one year positions)
Very selective biglaw firms (Irell, Munger, Wachtell, Williams & Connolly)

Please add onto the list, for the benefit of that poster and i'm sure many others with the same question.

When you say desirable government positions, are they desirable because of the prestige associated with them, exit options or pay?

I'm not sure how "prestigious" they are but the financial regulators (OCC, Fed Reserve, SEC, CFTC, FDIC) hire a handful of grads every year. They all pay six figures to start and have a pretty decent work life balance.

[IAFG]

Very selective biglaw firms (Irell, Munger, Wachtell, Williams & Connolly)

I wouldn't personally include these.

[yossarian]

Thanks for this thread.

It seems like people generally throw the term around for any job with few positions and a decent number of applicants/gunners. I'm curious about this usage, though. By this definition, in-house counsel for a school district could be a unicorn job. There are probably only 200-300 of these jobs across the country. Not sure how many NYC-PS/LAPS/CPS would have, but most states only have a few districts big enough to warrant in house. By this sense, it's a unicorn job. It would be ridiculous to count on this for your career as there are a good number of education lawyers, and a good number of those may take this gig were it available. It could be considered a unicorn.

But, if you add up all the unicorn positions in all fields of law, there are a large number of lawyers with unicorn jobs, just very few within specific categories. I guess what I'm saying is that the top of any field is parsed out. That's the nature of things. There is no career arc take your promotions/bonuses and smile bullshit. Career trajectories mandate that some will succeed, many will lead mediocre careers, and many will fail. Law isn't the only sector where this is true.

In this sense, "unicorn evangelicalism" is important. 0Ls should know that there is no easy career track in law. However, to give the picture that these are ridiculous ambitions seems overboard. The people who get them are ambitious. From what I've gathered the message should more be, gun for what you want, set yourself up for it as well as you can, and make career moves that leave you other options if you fail. Right?

In this sense, the real unicorn jobs are those like BigFed that you gun for and give up other options because of the late hiring process. Then, you're screwed, but I question the use of the phrase when when failing means having a decent option. Like the gal/guy who wants in house at a school but is stuck at the local midlaw firm that handles school districts (my limited experience shows these as more mid than small).

ETA: As a OL, I'm not meaning to contribute to the judgments of this thread, but to raise points for discussion.

[84651846190]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

[09042014]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

Maybe they are hard, but I don't see much evidence HYS has a huge advantage in them.

[Tom Joad]

Shitlaw king.

[09042014]

wartime consigliere

[84651846190]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

Maybe they are hard, but I don't see much evidence HYS has a huge advantage in them.

Aren't like 90% of the SEC's lawyers from HYS tho?

[IAFG]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

that's more a function of hiring freezes than their unicorn-ish-ness i think

[09042014]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

Maybe they are hard, but I don't see much evidence HYS has a huge advantage in them.

Aren't like 90% of the SEC's lawyers from HYS tho?

I dunno. Even if true, that just means SEC is HYS or bust. Not enough HYS grads go into gov for it to be HYS or bust for all fed gov.

[jbagelboy]

Just curious, are there BIGFED jobs that OP or others do NOT consider unicorn jobs? All BIGFED jobs seem relatively unattainable to me.

Maybe they are hard, but I don't see much evidence HYS has a huge advantage in them.

Aren't like 90% of the SEC's lawyers from HYS tho?

I dunno. Even if true, that just means SEC is HYS or bust. Not enough HYS grads go into gov for it to be HYS or bust for all fed gov.

It's just not true. more TLS mythology. Of the SEC commissioners, one is a Yale JD, the others are random TT's and Georgetown. The current Chairwoman of the SEC is a Columbia JD. As was Annette Nazareth, Harvey Goldschmid, ect. ect.

Harvard, Yale and Columbia are all well represented over the past 40 years, but so are a lot of other random law schools. This applies at all levels. Take corporate finance for instance: http://www.sec.gov/corpfin/Article/cont ... 2fm5tzirwI. Counsel are from like Georgetown and Notre Dame.
Or investment management: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment ... -chart.pdf

On no level of legal or counsel from top to bottom is there anything resembling 90% from any three particular law schools.

[09042014]

Maybe they are hard, but I don't see much evidence HYS has a huge advantage in them.

Aren't like 90% of the SEC's lawyers from HYS tho?

I dunno. Even if true, that just means SEC is HYS or bust. Not enough HYS grads go into gov for it to be HYS or bust for all fed gov.

It's just not true. more TLS mythology. Of the SEC commissioners, one is a Yale JD, the others are random TT's and Georgetown. The current Chairwoman of the SEC is a Columbia JD. As was Annette Nazareth, Harvey Goldschmid, ect. ect.

Harvard, Yale and Columbia are all well represented over the past 40 years, but so are a lot of other random law schools. This applies at all levels. Take corporate finance for instance: http://www.sec.gov/corpfin/Article/cont ... 2fm5tzirwI. Counsel are from like Georgetown and Notre Dame.
Or investment management: http://www.sec.gov/divisions/investment ... -chart.pdf

On no level of legal or counsel from top to bottom is there anything resembling 90% from any three particular law schools.

TLS common wisdom is the worst

[IAFG]

TLS CW: job is hard to get = can only get from HYS/HYS is huge boost.

no no no no.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Tangent re: representing school districts - I actually think there are probably a lot of districts that hire attorneys, but even if not, there are firms that specialize in representing school districts. I don't think these jobs are especially unicorn-y - I know people from my law school doing this, either at a firm or in-house, and I went to a fairly podunk school compared to everyone here. You have to lay the groundwork from the beginning of law school, I think, but they're not impossible to get. (They don't come up here much because they're not biglaw/prestigious, though I think they're good gigs for the right person.)

University counsel is probably a bit more unicorn-y (though I know people doing this, too), but that's mostly because only very big university systems will hire entry-level - a lot of the jobs want 10 yrs experience otherwise.

[rayiner]

I would be surprised if SEC/DOJ were even as HYSCCN-heavy as your typical V5 firm. My perception is that, at the entry level, government would rather have high grades from a decent school than middling grades from HYS. This is in contrast to law firms, which will happily hire median at HYS while shutting out top 10% at a T25.

There is probably no federal agency that's more prestige conscious than the Office of the Solicitor General, and I doubt even that is a majority HYS. The current Solicitor General is a Columbia grad. Out of the last 17 Bristow Fellows (basically, clerks to the OSG), 5 of 17 have been HYS: http://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/congratu ... -fellows/2. Out of schools that placed more than one Bristow fellow since 2010, Stanford had 3, Yale, Northwestern, Berkeley and UVA had 2 each.

[09042014]

There is probably no federal agency that's more prestige conscious than the Office of the Solicitor General, and I doubt even that is a majority HYS. The current Solicitor General is a Columbia grad. Out of the last 17 Bristow Fellows (basically, clerks to the OSG), 5 of 17 have been HYS: http://abovethelaw.com/2012/11/congratu ... -fellows/2. Out of schools that placed more than one Bristow fellow since 2010, Stanford had 3, Yale, Northwestern, Berkeley and UVA had 2 each.

There isn't even 1 HLS. Obviously this is wrong. You must not be wise to the true prestigious govenrment jobs.