Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

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Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:34 pm

I have an SA lined up in NYC. Just got an interview request for the SEC honors program in DC. In a perfect world, I'd take the latter in a heartbeat. My interests lie strongly in capital markets and regulation...and I'm having second thoughts about wanting to work in transactional v. lit. Worked in regulatory/compliance this summer for a major bank. At my firm, I will be restricted to finance/transactional. They don't do much capital markets/regulatory work.

I'd prefer not to hear from people who say "troll" or " but would prefer like to hear some intelligent insight as to whether it would be remiss of me not to take the SA.

I understand 3L hiring is sparse, but I interview very well, and I received a few "please come back around for 3L hiring if you would like"-s following EIW interview season.

Am seriously considering doing the SEC honors program (because I'd love to work in DC, and for the SEC one day) and I know they give strong preference to those who have had prior experience. Also would align with my interests. But that means forgoing an SA, and trying to get hired during 3L season. As I know the SEC's entry level hiring is almost completely, if not completely, dead.



Thoughts?

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cinephile
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby cinephile » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:42 pm

You can't intern for the SEC during the school year, which would give you the same experience you need for the SEC honors program? That'd be best. I think it's super risky to give up the SA. Whether you can live with that risk is something only you can answer.

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bk1
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:43 pm

Don't do it if there isn't a high chance of this leading to a postgrad job.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:45 pm

I can't intern in DC during the school year. And I would only want to intern in the DC office, to build some repertoire as that's where I want to eventually end up.


Actually, you just gave me a great idea. I'll probably try and be a visiting student during my 3L year at gtown or gdub and work at the SEC during the semester.


Thank you cinephile!

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:49 pm

To me this seems to be to depend upon your personal financial situation (amount of debt, whether you come from money). I also would've loved to do public interest work instead of BigLaw, but after realizing the uncertainty of sitting in limbo with government employers or fellowship applications, and realizing BigLaw was the easiest path to paying off debt and being financially independent, I felt like I didn't really have a choice. If you financial independence as is, then why not go with the job you like? If you are your average law grad sitting on a shit ton of debt and don't have a big safety net, maybe it's better to go with the safer option.

But as the above posters said, if you are able to work at the SEC during the school year (a lot of schools, at least top ones, are now expanding their externship programs), that seems like a nice way to get the best of both worlds.

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cinephile
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby cinephile » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:I can't intern in DC during the school year. And I would only want to intern in the DC office, to build some repertoire as that's where I want to eventually end up.


Actually, you just gave me a great idea. I'll probably try and be a visiting student during my 3L year at gtown or gdub and work at the SEC during the semester.


Thank you cinephile!


Yay! Glad you found a solution.

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Nelson
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Nelson » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:40 am

Take the SA and apply for fedgov next fall. Way less risk.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Oct 17, 2013 7:31 am

What makes you think the SEC would hire you even if they wanted to? There's so much instability with the fed government right now, you don't know who's going to have how much money or when. Just go do the SA.

(advice from someone who did a non-paying 2L summer b/c I had to, but I sure would've loved the chance to do an SA).

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hephaestus
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby hephaestus » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:41 am

Nelson wrote:Take the SA and apply for fedgov next fall. Way less risk.

This. You're in a great position and there's no reason to sabotage yourself.

bdubs
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby bdubs » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:29 am

Split?

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:40 am

I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby mr. wednesday » Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:47 am

There are about 80 3L OCI spots for probably thousands of students who would very much like to have them, and almost every single one goes to someone who was a SA 2L. I wouldn't count on your interview skills in this situation. Plus, even the places telling you to come back to speak to them won't hire you if they don't have a spot, no matter how much they liked you. Generally, this is not a good plan. Don't give up a 2L SA unless you are good with not working in biglaw.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Bigbub75 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:34 pm

Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:36 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

I feel like a thorough analysis of whether their regulatory work is genuinely productive should occur before committing to this "public service" job. I'd certainly try to talk as many traders and people doing "real" work as possible.

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3|ink
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby 3|ink » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:24 pm

Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

Did we read the same post? I reported his post for shitting-up the employment forum with dumb anti-government trolling. But seeing how no action was taken, I guess that's allowed.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby bk1 » Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:43 pm

3|ink wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

Did we read the same post? I reported his post for shitting-up the employment forum with dumb anti-government trolling. But seeing how no action was taken, I guess that's allowed.

1. It didn't seem to cross the line into trolling to me and he is entitled to post his opinion on whether working at the SEC is worthwhile.

2. If you have any comments regarding moderation, the appropriate forum for that is the mod Q&A thread and not the on topic forums.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:18 pm

OP: Sorry if I came off as trolly. 3|ink is a pretty self-righteous dude. I just wanted to say, in no uncertain terms, put some thought into whether or not this something you genuinely want, or if it's just a dream job because of your general interest in finance

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Holly Golightly » Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:23 pm

3|ink wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

Did we read the same post? I reported his post for shitting-up the employment forum with dumb anti-government trolling. But seeing how no action was taken, I guess that's allowed.

I have been trying not to let trolling piss me off, but with this post I don't know what pissed me off more, the ridiculous anti-government crap, or correlating plaintiff's employment discrimination firms with patent trolls.

Sometimes I honestly cannot believe I'm in the same profession as a lot of people on TLS.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:08 pm

Holly Golightly wrote:
3|ink wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

Did we read the same post? I reported his post for shitting-up the employment forum with dumb anti-government trolling. But seeing how no action was taken, I guess that's allowed.

I have been trying not to let trolling piss me off, but with this post I don't know what pissed me off more, the ridiculous anti-government crap, or correlating plaintiff's employment discrimination firms with patent trolls.

Sometimes I honestly cannot believe I'm in the same profession as a lot of people on TLS.

I had the same reaction. I generally try not to engage the trolls, but I agree.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:01 am

Holly Golightly wrote:
3|ink wrote:
Bigbub75 wrote:
Hipster but Athletic wrote:I think you're making a mistake to think that the SEC would be a worthwhile career. I know it seems appealing to really be involved in finance like that, but the government has made it its agenda recently to persecute high finance and force settlements rather than to merely pursue justice. This would be like going to an employment discrimination plaintiff's firm, or a patent troll..not exactly places you should be aiming for, especially when you have a great gig lined up already.



You make a valid point if all he wants to do enforcement work, but the SEC has about 6 other divisions that do other types of regulatory work.

Did we read the same post? I reported his post for shitting-up the employment forum with dumb anti-government trolling. But seeing how no action was taken, I guess that's allowed.

I have been trying not to let trolling piss me off, but with this post I don't know what pissed me off more, the ridiculous anti-government crap, or correlating plaintiff's employment discrimination firms with patent trolls.

Sometimes I honestly cannot believe I'm in the same profession as a lot of people on TLS.

Also the absurd notion that anyone who is interested in government enforcement will eventually reach the same conclusion as HBA once they simply learn more about it.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:39 pm

I know someone who took that exact same 2L SEC Honors Program, don't do it. Stick with the SA. SEC was not interested, the hiring into the SEC from law school is incredibly difficult and he said the work itself was far from fulfilling. He'd kill to be in your shoes with an SA lined up. Take the associate position and if you still want SEC in a few years, apply with some regulatory work under your belt.

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Hipster but Athletic
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Hipster but Athletic » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:56 pm

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/bus ... l/2939663/

Here's my point. Mark Cuban can actually afford to hire a litigation team capable of handling this stuff. Most can't or would rather settle quick. The fact they'd bring a case like this --that came down to just one guy's word against another's should maybe signal to you the way the sec operates

sparty99
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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby sparty99 » Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:30 pm

HELL NO, DON'T TAKE THE NON-PAYING 2L JOB. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? TAKE THE SA AND RUN-WITH-IT.

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Re: Giving up an SA... to take a non-paying 2L job.

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:32 am

Many attorneys in Big Fed (e.g., DOJ, SEC) tell me the best way to lateral in is to get good experience in a private law firm and then lateral over in about 3 years.




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