Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

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Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:04 am

...asking/forcing them to accept on the spot. Prior to 28 days being up. I believe they are also are over capacity for next summer.

Terrifying.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:35 am

I have a bit of inside information - they are very likely not over capacity based on # of acceptances this round and average class sizes of previous summers. The rate of acceptances is just too high for the # of offers outstanding. Sometimes this happens - happened to another firm I got an offer from when I was doing OCI and that firm handled it in the same way (calling everyone up and telling them.) Recruiting isn't an exact science.

It might be a good idea to accept elsewhere (as the firm has advised it sounds like) but from the number of people I've heard that have accepted the class is likely not full yet. It's just early for them in the season to have this many acceptances. Like I said before, this shit happens. It's not "terrifying", calm down. If you accept you're not going to get no-offered next summer. If you are particularly anxious there are many nice and helpful people in KBTF recruiting that would be glad to give you more information and help you out.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:42 am

Students at my school have been called and told they have until the end of the day to accept. One person was told to pursue other offers because accepting was no longer an option.

Whether Kasowitz is overcapacity at this point or not, it just seems pretty unprofessional.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:Students at my school have been called and told they have until the end of the day to accept. One girl was told to pursue other offers because accepting was no longer an option.

Whether Kasowitz is overcapacity at this point or not, it just seems pretty unprofessional.


Like I said, not a perfect science. Firms handle it the best they know how. This exact thing happened to a different firm a few years ago when I was interviewing and at the time I was put off but I am more sympathetic in retrospect - also I had other offers and didn't accept there so...that should say something. But it's not a bad firm and the recruiting dept handled it as professionally as possible.

I am sorry about the students at your school. I hope they are able to pursue other options. I still think if this firm was your top choice and this was communicated something could be worked out. But like I said, I am not on the front lines here.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:39 am

"there are many nice and helpful people in KBTF recruiting that would be glad to give you more information and help you out."

I obviously don't know who you are, but I certainly believe that you have a connection to Kasowitz that is stronger than just possessing inside information. With that being said, I don't think you're doing a very good job at damage control--this is really bad form, and it kind of speaks for itself. Anyway, let me be clear: 1) This does not happen often. 2) My understanding is that Kasowitz is doing it to a lot of people, so it's not like there was a minor miscalculation. 3) This goes against NALP guidelines. 4) They are not being classy about it, at all. Talk to anyone who's gotten a phone call. 5) If you don't see this as a sign that Kasowitz is more likely to no offer someone next summer than any big firm in NY I can think of off the top of my head right now, then we are not likely to agree on anything.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Old Gregg » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:00 am

Raise it with your career services. Last time S&C tried pulling this, they were banned from Harvard.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:31 am

If a student is put in this position, is there any downside to accepting and then reneging if something better comes along?

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby quakeroats » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:42 am

Bildungsroman wrote:If a student is put in this position, is there any downside to accepting and then reneging if something better comes along?


Was there ever?

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:"there are many nice and helpful people in KBTF recruiting that would be glad to give you more information and help you out."

I obviously don't know who you are, but I certainly believe that you have a connection to Kasowitz that is stronger than just possessing inside information. With that being said, I don't think you're doing a very good job at damage control--this is really bad form, and it kind of speaks for itself. Anyway, let me be clear: 1) This does not happen often. 2) My understanding is that Kasowitz is doing it to a lot of people, so it's not like there was a minor miscalculation. 3) This goes against NALP guidelines. 4) They are not being classy about it, at all. Talk to anyone who's gotten a phone call. 5) If you don't see this as a sign that Kasowitz is more likely to no offer someone next summer than any big firm in NY I can think of off the top of my head right now, then we are not likely to agree on anything.

+1 to all of this. 2Ls should run, not walk, from Kasowitz, IMO.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:13 am

Bildungsroman wrote:If a student is put in this position, is there any downside to accepting and then reneging if something better comes along?


I'd do it. Kas probably wouldn't even care. Sounds like they have too many SAs as it is.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby NYstate » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have a bit of inside information - they are very likely not over capacity based on # of acceptances this round and average class sizes of previous summers. The rate of acceptances is just too high for the # of offers outstanding. Sometimes this happens - happened to another firm I got an offer from when I was doing OCI and that firm handled it in the same way (calling everyone up and telling them.) Recruiting isn't an exact science.

It might be a good idea to accept elsewhere (as the firm has advised it sounds like) but from the number of people I've heard that have accepted the class is likely not full yet. It's just early for them in the season to have this many acceptances. Like I said before, this shit happens. It's not "terrifying", calm down. If you accept you're not going to get no-offered next summer. If you are particularly anxious there are many nice and helpful people in KBTF recruiting that would be glad to give you more information and help you out.


What are you talking about? Telling people they don't have room for everyone is as obvious a sign there may be no- offers as there can be. I've never heard of a firm doing this. There is no way this is a common occurrence. But I do give them credit for telling people they don't have room for them to give people a chance to work like mad to find something else.

Does anyone else think they decided to cut class size after they started making offers?

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:I have a bit of inside information - they are very likely not over capacity based on # of acceptances this round and average class sizes of previous summers. The rate of acceptances is just too high for the # of offers outstanding. Sometimes this happens - happened to another firm I got an offer from when I was doing OCI and that firm handled it in the same way (calling everyone up and telling them.) Recruiting isn't an exact science.

It might be a good idea to accept elsewhere (as the firm has advised it sounds like) but from the number of people I've heard that have accepted the class is likely not full yet. It's just early for them in the season to have this many acceptances. Like I said before, this shit happens. It's not "terrifying", calm down. If you accept you're not going to get no-offered next summer. If you are particularly anxious there are many nice and helpful people in KBTF recruiting that would be glad to give you more information and help you out.


Something tells me the only people who call Kasowitz "KBTF" are current associates or, if they're posting on TLS, 3L's who just summered there.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:01 am

Why are they making more offers if they're already oversubscribed?

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby what to do » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:17 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Why are they making more offers if they're already oversubscribed?


No idea. May the luck be in anyone-who-accepts-those-offer's favor.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby thesealocust » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:55 am

This is drama. I have some sympathy for the firm because of their yield was much higher than expected it's not like they can magically drum up thousands of hours of work to handle all the potential new associates that would come as a result of an oversubscribed summer class. On the other hand, this sounds terrifying and unprofessional, and almost certainly isn't the best way to handle things.

Rock and a hard place though. Firms are businesses and associate salary is a huge portion of their costs, failing to align staffing with work can be a big blow.

As others have said, if you were sitting on a Kasowitz offer + another firm, this is a major reason to not pick Kasowitz (and to immediately jump on another offer, in case this is systematic rather than isolated).

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:59 am

Honestly this is not a big deal. Better than what other firms have done, like taking all those summers but no offering some and then lying about what happened to NALP.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby 09042014 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:21 am

The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby thesealocust » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:35 am

Desert Fox wrote:The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.


Very true, but from posts ITT the tone sounds like "you have 24 hours may God have mercy on your soul"

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby shumpshump » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:36 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:Why are they making more offers if they're already oversubscribed?


I assumed OP meant that Kasowitz is calling people they already made offers to and before the 30 day deadline are asking them to accept. So it's not that they're making new offers but rather just making offers they've already made to decide that day or on the spot to make a decision immediately.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:39 am

shumpshump wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:Why are they making more offers if they're already oversubscribed?


I assumed OP meant that Kasowitz is calling people they already made offers to and before the 30 day deadline are asking them to accept. So it's not that they're making new offers but rather just making offers they've already made to decide that day or on the spot to make a decision immediately.

Yeah I definitely misread the OP. This makes more sense.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:39 am

thesealocust wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.


Very true, but from posts ITT the tone sounds like "you have 24 hours may God have mercy on your soul"

So what. If it's your only offer, grab it fast. If not, take whatever you liked better or equivalently.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:41 am

Desert Fox wrote:The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.

Exactly. They're doing good by people and shouldn't be penalized for it. In fact, if this is against NALP guidelines, maybe they should be changed to not cause firms to accept more summers and then no offer them to stay within the guidelines.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:44 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Students at my school have been called and told they have until the end of the day to accept. One girl was told to pursue other offers because accepting was no longer an option.

Whether Kasowitz is overcapacity at this point or not, it just seems pretty unprofessional.


Like I said, not a perfect science. Firms handle it the best they know how.



I guess the issue is: who should bear the burden of uncertainty? The firm or the student? NALP already answered that question for us.

edit: that said, if you like the firm, you should take the offer. They are calling one-by-one in order of preference. They want a yes or no so that they can figure out when their class is filled, and then urge everyone else to reject. They are probably not going to no-offer you.

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:51 am

IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.

Exactly. They're doing good by people and shouldn't be penalized for it. In fact, if this is against NALP guidelines, maybe they should be changed to not cause firms to accept more summers and then no offer them to stay within the guidelines.

Well... given that they fucked up to such an extent that they apparently can't carry the extra people who accepted, then they're doing the best thing for students. I agree. But that "given" is a pretty big problem already. I think most firms that are doing okay would just say, let's take on the extra 3, 4, 5 people, AND offer them, if only to avoid the PR hit. So this strikes me as a pretty big red flag. I wouldn't want to go there for the summer because how can you know if this desperate move actually got them beneath the personnel level where they can offer everyone?

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Re: Kasowitz is calling people with offers right now and...

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:56 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:The shitty part is over offering. Telling people when they already have offers is the right thing to do.

Exactly. They're doing good by people and shouldn't be penalized for it. In fact, if this is against NALP guidelines, maybe they should be changed to not cause firms to accept more summers and then no offer them to stay within the guidelines.

Well... given that they fucked up to such an extent that they apparently can't carry the extra people who accepted, then they're doing the best thing for students. I agree. But that "given" is a pretty big problem already. I think most firms that are doing okay would just say, let's take on the extra 3, 4, 5 people, AND offer them, if only to avoid the PR hit. So this strikes me as a pretty big red flag. I wouldn't want to go there for the summer because how can you know if this desperate move actually got them beneath the personnel level where they can offer everyone?

Just take on 3, 4, 5 extra associates at a firm with a summer class of 18? You're nuts. That's nuts.




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