Columbia Law School EIP 2013

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Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:35 am

Hello everyone and welcome to the CLS 2013 EIP thread!
Image
I know that TLS can be a scary and sometimes awful place, but hopefully this will be an EXCELLENT resource for us all in the coming stressful months.

I’ll put this out front right away: I’m not an expert and I TOTALLY think that many of you reading this know more about bidding, interviewing and the EIP process than I do. I just hope we can use this MOST TRIUMPHANT thread to collaborate on bidlists and to share information when callbacks go out.

Please don’t be an asshole or a pretentious gunner in this thread.

I know we have a bit of a reputation, but SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL RULES! (when we’re not hemorrhaging professors like we had our academic jugular cut) So, let's try to show our collegial side and be excellent to each other.

Please Use Anonymous Handles

We all want to maintain some privacy during this process. That said, it is also nice to keep track of who is saying what. I’m going to recommend that everyone pick a handle to sign their anonymous posts with (you obviously don’t have to) so that we can keep track of one another. As I’m writing this post with a Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure theme, you can always look there for a name if you’re stumped. Besides, historical figures are TOTALLY BOGUS.

Bidding

Bidlists! I’m sure if you’re reading this you probably have made/are making your bidlist. Please don’t freak out if you haven’t finished yet as there is still time! I'm still waiting on grades to make mine, so you're not alone.

EDIT: So, we have grades! This is a good thing. Hopefully we can share bidlists and think through strategy some here. I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all solution and I don't think there's a way for anyone to game the system, so hopefully we can work together to make sure everyone has the best shot at employment that's possible.

The basics of bidlist stuff should be straightforward even if you’re not Socrates: if you think other people are more likely to bid on a firm, you should bid it high. Firms that are less grade-selective or that have fewer interview spots are more competitive, so you should probably rank them higher. Don’t rank a firm high just because you want it, but if you really want a particular firm it might be good to rank it high for your peace of mind. Finally, you should probably avoid spreading your bids out between multiple markets unless you have strong ties to all of those markets. We’ve all seen the data: there are just more jobs in New York, so NY is a solid backup for folks who are trying to head to California, Chicago or DC. In the end, we’re just looking for someone to go to the San Dimas prom with us firms that are willing to interview us, so let’s maximize our chances.

Callbacks

Once we’re at least part way through the first rings of interviewing hell, people will get callbacks. In past years, people would post the firm name and the initials of the person who interviewed them when they received a callback so that people would know that callbacks had gone out. If reading that sounds like a way to add extra stress to the interviewing process, I’d avoid this thread.

EDIT:

We're through EIP! People have been posting information about when callbacks have been going out. I'm sorry that I didn't update the OP with that information. If I have some time I might try to catalog it here, but no promises.

Strategies Outside of EIP

Obviously EIP isn’t the only way to get a job, and I’m sure you can ask around about mass mailing, networking fall OCI and other job-hunt stuff here as well.

Let’s be excellent to each other and PARTY ON DUDES ALL GET JOBS.

Image

-Ted “Theodore” Logan

You can see last year’s thread here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=187757
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:29 pm

May be a while before I can start creating my bid list b/c of the Morrison con law grade.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:17 pm

Still waiting on grades as well so I really haven't started thinking about my bid list. Hard to know what I should be targeting at this point. I'm a little skeptical about whether grades will all be out by the deadline.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Still waiting on grades as well so I really haven't started thinking about my bid list. Hard to know what I should be targeting at this point. I'm a little skeptical about whether grades will all be out by the deadline.


I totally know that feeling. As much as I'd like to make a triumphant bidlist, I'll never have a triumphant bidlist unless I have super grades from excellent professors. But, it's pointless to try to worry about super grades when I'm not even decent at taking law school exams. How can I be decent at law school exams when law school doesn't teach us anything.

AND that is why we need excellent professors.

And that is why we don't have grades.

EXCELLENT!

(I'm sorry I couldn't help but try to mimic this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyS9Qy570wY)

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:34 am

- At point point (class-rank / gpa-wise) does mass mailing become very important?
- If we fall in that range, when should we be mass mailing? As soon as all our grades are in?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:- At point point (class-rank / gpa-wise) does mass mailing become very important?
- If we fall in that range, when should we be mass mailing? As soon as all our grades are in?


So, this is just what I've heard from other dudes, but I think everyone should consider mass mailing. Grades just make sure you're listened to (like that dude Beethoven!) but the show's always better when you have a bigger audience.

I think you want to wait until July to start mass mailing.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:54 am

Which firms are out of range for someone right around a 3.5? Specifically, curious about Sullivan & Cromwell, Boies Schiller, and Patterson Belknap - I know all of these firms are really grade-sensitive, but it's hard to tell their cut-offs from the "Offers by Honors" report. Thanks!

- Roger Sterling

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:Which firms are out of range for someone right around a 3.5? Specifically, curious about Sullivan & Cromwell, Boies Schiller, and Patterson Belknap - I know all of these firms are really grade-sensitive, but it's hard to tell their cut-offs from the "Offers by Honors" report. Thanks!

- Roger Sterling


Grade cut offs are something that I don't understand right now either so I'd also love if someone could talk about these (or other) firms. Have you tried asking OCS? My gut instinct would be that the average GPA for people who get offers from Boies and Patterson is higher than it is for SullCrom, but I don't really know.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:- At point point (class-rank / gpa-wise) does mass mailing become very important?
- If we fall in that range, when should we be mass mailing? As soon as all our grades are in?


So, this is just what I've heard from other dudes, but I think everyone should consider mass mailing. Grades just make sure you're listened to (like that dude Beethoven!) but the show's always better when you have a bigger audience.

I think you want to wait until July to start mass mailing.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan


Hmm, alright.

Do you know which firms we should be mass mailing? Solely firms that don't come to EIP (like those in secondary markets)? Or ones that we simply don't plan on bidding on?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hmm, alright.

Do you know which firms we should be mass mailing? Solely firms that don't come to EIP (like those in secondary markets)? Or ones that we simply don't plan on bidding on?


I'm planning on mass mailing firms outside of New York and some firms that will come to EIP. I have a feeling I'm not going to be able to get everything I want from my bidlist. There are also some offices that don't come to EIP but the firm does/even though the firm interviews for other locations, and I think it might be worth it to send it in that situation as well.

Worst case it gets thrown in the trash. I don't think they're going to ding you for sending them a letter unless the letter is laughably bad. That said, I wouldn't send letters to every firm that is coming to EIP or something like that. That just seems like overkill/a waste.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:18 pm

TLS wisdom seems to suggest that late July is the time to send out mass mails, although of course you could start prepping them now. I'd go for both firms coming to EIP and those that aren't.

-Rufus

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:43 pm

Patterson is very feasible for someone with a 3.5 (my 1L grades were right aroudn there, but I still got a callback with them - I cancelled before I could go on it though).

Boies and S&C are not totally out out of range for a 3.5. It's going to be a stretch for sure, but I wouldn't say you're wasting a bid. Wachtell is probably in the same category.

The only firms I would say are truly out of range for a 3.5 are the super-elite DC firms/offices (W&C, Covington DC, Wilmer DC, Gibson DC). Even then, it might be worth a bid if you have some "hook" that will be particularly attractive to them.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:46 pm

Also, re: mass mailing, I honestly think if you're Stone or above, there's little to no point in mass mailing unless you have serious issues (e.g., criminal convictions) or have major doubts about your social skills / ability to interview well. I can't think of a single person who was stone my year who didn't get something through EIP. Maybe there were one or two people (they don't exactly brag about it), but the point is it's exceedingly rare.

Even around median, I don't think you're running a major risk by not mass mailing, though maybe there's more of an argument to be made to do it as an insurance policy.

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:23 pm

Looks like I (and half the class) will be waiting another week before we have final GPAs. Is is worth putting bid lists together now with 3/4 of the grades in or should we wait until TMo's con law grades are out?

-Jon Snow (knows nothing)

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Looks like I (and half the class) will be waiting another week before we have final GPAs. Is is worth putting bid lists together now with 3/4 of the grades in or should we wait until TMo's con law grades are out?

-Jon Snow (knows nothing)


I'm creating a conservative bid list based on a worst case scenario (i.e., B in Con Law), but mostly because I have free time.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Looks like I (and half the class) will be waiting another week before we have final GPAs. Is is worth putting bid lists together now with 3/4 of the grades in or should we wait until TMo's con law grades are out?

-Jon Snow (knows nothing)


I'm creating a conservative bid list based on a worst case scenario (i.e., B in Con Law), but mostly because I have free time.

- Hodor


I'm planning on doing the same. I've calculated every variation of my GPA based on what the last grade could be (assuming something absolutely dreadful like a B- doesn't happen), and I don't really think it'll change my options that much. Would obviously prefer some certainty, though.

Good luck all!

-Jon Snow

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:53 pm

Yeah, I'm doing the same.

Does anyone think we will need to bid firms a little higher this year, as there may be a few more Stone kids b/c of the new curve?

-Rufus

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby beepboopbeep » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:00 pm

tag

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, I'm doing the same.

Does anyone think we will need to bid firms a little higher this year, as there may be a few more Stone kids b/c of the new curve?

-Rufus


What do you mean? I think we might need to bid more conservatively because of the new curve in terms of firms we select overall - but they can't pre-screen us for grades, right? How would the new curve affect the likelihood of bidding successfully? Or am I confusing your question?

Jon Snow

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:46 pm

Sorry, I just meant if more people made Stone, more people might bid grade-selective-firm-X, which means it might make sense to bid that firm a bit higher on our bidlists than previous years would suggest. So say you needed to bid Gibson no lower than 10 last year to get it (making this up), maybe it will be 8 this year.

Anonymous User wrote:I think we might need to bid more conservatively because of the new curve in terms of firms we select overall

Basically I'm worried most people won't do this, although maybe they should.

- Rufus

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, I just meant if more people made Stone, more people might bid grade-selective-firm-X, which means it might make sense to bid that firm a bit higher on our bidlists than previous years would suggest. So say you needed to bid Gibson no lower than 10 last year to get it (making this up), maybe it will be 8 this year.

Anonymous User wrote:I think we might need to bid more conservatively because of the new curve in terms of firms we select overall

Basically I'm worried most people won't do this, although maybe they should.

- Rufus


GOT it. That makes sense. Besides the offers by honors sheet and last year's EIP results, is there a good way to gauge that stuff? I noticed from last year's thread, for example, that people who put Proskauer as high as #2 didn't get it depending on the lottery. Do we have anything more than anecdotal information about those kinds of things?

Jon Snow

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, I'm doing the same.

Does anyone think we will need to bid firms a little higher this year, as there may be a few more Stone kids b/c of the new curve?

-Rufus


Similarly, will there be a few more Kent people? Or would the change be minimal?

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sorry, I just meant if more people made Stone, more people might bid grade-selective-firm-X, which means it might make sense to bid that firm a bit higher on our bidlists than previous years would suggest. So say you needed to bid Gibson no lower than 10 last year to get it (making this up), maybe it will be 8 this year.

Anonymous User wrote:I think we might need to bid more conservatively because of the new curve in terms of firms we select overall

Basically I'm worried most people won't do this, although maybe they should.

- Rufus


GOT it. That makes sense. Besides the offers by honors sheet and last year's EIP results, is there a good way to gauge that stuff? I noticed from last year's thread, for example, that people who put Proskauer as high as #2 didn't get it depending on the lottery. Do we have anything more than anecdotal information about those kinds of things?

Jon Snow


Sadly, I don't believe so. We just have to work off of the bids/interview ratio and the few bits of anecdotal evidence to piece together a story. I'm sure some 2Ls/3Ls may pop in and offer some advice as well. I know that I'll be posting my bid list for critique once my last grade arrives.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, I'm doing the same.

Does anyone think we will need to bid firms a little higher this year, as there may be a few more Stone kids b/c of the new curve?

-Rufus


Similarly, will there be a few more Kent people? Or would the change be minimal?


I imagine the change will be minimal or non-existent. The change in the curve had a lot more to do with scrunching together the median than anything.

- Hodor

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Re: Columbia Law School EIP 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Similarly, will there be a few more Kent people? Or would the change be minimal?


The farther away from median you are the less impact the new curve will have. I think it's hard to tell what kind of impact the new curve will have overall. It's not much of a change, but I'd think that some firms will figure it out, especially if people keep talking about it :lol:.

I still think firms that are not grade selective will be the most difficult to get. People are smart and will be realistic about their choices. I also just don't see Paul Weiss suddenly becoming more bid-competetive than Proskauer or something.

Re: more people at Stone

The percentage of the class with Stone almost assuredly increased, but given the smaller class size, I don't know if the number of people with Stone will noticeably increase. The changes to the curve weren't that substantial, and they already implemented it for half of the year last year, right?

We'll see what happens.

-Ted "Theodore" Logan




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