You just started at your firm-Happy with your choice so far? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I think TLS has reached the point where a lot of posters are now working full time at their big firms.

I'm just curious: Lots of law students/0Ls have "dream" law firms; others chose their firms based on lofty promises those firms made with respect to the summer program; others chose their firms based not only on the preceding statement, but also on how much they enjoy the summer program.

But now that you're a fulltime lawyer at your law firm, are you satisfied with your choice or do you regret it? If you could do anything differently, know anything differently, or speak to your 2L self before choosing firms, what would you tell yourself to do?


I got my "top choice" law firm. I definitely wouldn't want to work anywhere else in NYC, but, at least from my vantage point, I think I'm coming to the realization that i don't want to gun for partner (though I want to stay at my firm for a long time), whereas I think I wanted to gun all the way when I was law school.

[Anonymous User]

Just wondering why you decided against gunning for partner now. I know the odds are bad but I would have thought after all the work it'd be worth at least 1-2 years of trying before evaluating where you were...

[Drake014]

But now that you're a fulltime lawyer at your law firm, are you satisfied with your choice or do you regret it? If you could do anything differently, know anything differently, or speak to your 2L self before choosing firms, what would you tell yourself to do?
.

I'd tell myself to do exactly what I did.

[Anonymous User]

Knocked it out of the park. Things could change, but everything played out the way I thought it would. People who went places I thought I would be less happy are either less happy than I am or are clearly in an environment that makes them happy but I don't think would have made me happy.

2L and 3L year were good. Work is good and comporting with expectations, to the extent I was really able to form them.

As for partner, you have to realize that it's a career trajectory only pieces of which, and only at certain times, will be in your control. The level of business in your practice area at your firm when you're a senior and eligible for partner just mean SO much relative to anything you can actually make a decision about.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

[jawsthegreat]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

Would you mind going into a little more detail? I don't doubt what you're saying, I believe the TLS memo of "2/3L grades don't matter is way over blown," but what like to hear from someone w/ a bit more knowledge.

[tfer2222]

Interested in this.

[tfer2222]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

Interested in this grade stuff with regards to biglaw exit options.

Originally put my stats but accidentally forgot to hit anon. Woops.

[Drake014]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

Would you mind going into a little more detail? I don't doubt what you're saying, I believe the TLS memo of "2/3L grades don't matter is way over blown," but what like to hear from someone w/ a bit more knowledge.

Results may vary, especially depending on what you're going for. My 3L grades were terrible and my 2L grades were okay but I'm both happy with my current firm and my options.

Edit: My current firm was actually my second option. I'm not with the firm I summered for.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

+1 for interest in more discussion on this. I'm guessing grades matter more for exit options if you want to leave after two years instead of four? If we're talking NY, V rank might matter, right? When you say market, can you (or anyone else) say whether you know if grades matter more or less in NY? Or is it all about the level of responsibility your firm gave you before you left?

2L at T14 with good grades/SA, but really don't have the motivation to work like I did in 1L anymore. Have the feeling I will recede to median by the time I graduate.

[anon168]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

+1 for interest in more discussion on this. I'm guessing grades matter more for exit options if you want to leave after two years instead of four? If we're talking NY, V rank might matter, right? When you say market, can you (or anyone else) say whether you know if grades matter more or less in NY? Or is it all about the level of responsibility your firm gave you before you left?

2L at T14 with good grades/SA, but really don't have the motivation to work like I did in 1L anymore. Have the feeling I will recede to median by the time I graduate.

See my previous post here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p5791314

Bottom line: grades matter. Period.

Having been on both sides -- as a hiring committee member and as a lateral candidate -- grades matter. There's no two ways about it.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

+1 for interest in more discussion on this. I'm guessing grades matter more for exit options if you want to leave after two years instead of four? If we're talking NY, V rank might matter, right? When you say market, can you (or anyone else) say whether you know if grades matter more or less in NY? Or is it all about the level of responsibility your firm gave you before you left?

2L at T14 with good grades/SA, but really don't have the motivation to work like I did in 1L anymore. Have the feeling I will recede to median by the time I graduate.

See my previous post here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p5791314

Bottom line: grades matter. Period.

Having been on both sides -- as a hiring committee member and as a lateral candidate -- grades matter. There's no two ways about it.

Thanks. But what about going in-house as opposed to lateraling? Same deal?

- 12:13.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

Interested in this grade stuff with regards to biglaw exit options.

Originally put my stats but accidentally forgot to hit anon. Woops.

Let's just say that I know more than a few litigation associates who have had trouble finding their next jobs after leaving biglaw. One is a fourth-year eternally staffed on massive doc review projects with no hope of gaining the experience necessary to become a senior associate. He's been looking for his next job for two years and hasn't come up with anything. His grades dropped significantly after 1L (and I know this because my firm's grade cutoff for his school is basically the same as the honors cutoff and he missed honors). I know another fourth-year who is clerking for a magistrate judge after being forced out of the firm. His grades weren't good enough to land him a lateral position at another firm (which he wanted). I know at least 3-5 others at other firms who have been looking for quite some time. None of them graduated with honors.

[Anonymous User]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

Original anon poster here.

I agree that practice area (particularly IP) could save you, but lots of markets (like the bay area) are completely dead for commercial litigators with limited experience in niche practice areas. The problem is, you don't have 100% control over the type of work you're staffed on if you come in without an obvious specialty. If you get staffed on 3 giant mass tort actions and spend most of your time doing doc review, you're not going to have good exit options and you'll have to fall back on your grades to get hired. I know people who have been told straight up by recruiters that their grades are not good enough to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

For a firm, I'm happy at it. There's only a few "big firms" I'd rather be at, and that's because they don't punk out with "following the market" at every opportunity.

But big law is terrible.

[Anonymous User]

(anon disagreeing about grades mattering)

The lateral market varies wildly between firms, regions, practice areas, and just time of the year with respect to business cycles. It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that some groups are having a difficult time switching firms or finding an inhouse type exit option. The overall legal market is both not that strong and has a lot of uncertainty.

I also won't disagree that for some portion of jobs, and to some portion of those making hiring decisions, grades could be a factor.

But my overwhelming impression is that your professional network, skill set, firm, practice group, interviewing ability, and probably a host of other things mean more than grades you got years ago.

I'm not in litigation though, and things might be different there for a few reasons. I've also have the impression that there's a backlog of firm litigators piling up from heavy hiring in the past which isn't being met by renewed demand elsewhere as time goes on. Hiring freezes and slow downs at both levels of government means firms that want to pick up litigators can be more choosey than usual, etc.

Maybe we're seeing this from different perspectives because there's actually a big difference between the two markets? Something I notice a lot on TLS is that the conventional wisdom for one set of circumstances (school caliber, region, practice area interest, etc.) might not hold true across the board. There are lots of islands and small communities in the legal world.

[prezidentv8]

MVP grad

DAT MVP

--ImageRemoved--

[Anonymous User]

So would it be too much of a generalization to say that transactional lawyers have an easier time of it (assuming they have a good resume otherwise) since they'll have experience in a niche area and can go to work for a client, while grades tend to matter more if you're a litigator with little substantive experience trying to lateral? Particularly wondering about corporate exit options in NYC. I thought that the strength of the practice area at your firm/V Rank meant more.

- 12:13.

[Anonymous User]

im at a v5 in nyc. i have been here for over 2 months. i would tell my old self to listen to everyone who told me not to go to law school and that law sucks. it really does. really b/c it is so much stressful and frustrating than it has to be.

lawyers make awful business people and awful managers. they don't know how to manage people. they don't know how to efficiently run a deal. as the junior your job is to pick up the pieces of shit that fall from the top. you are always kept in the dark. i have done the same exact assignment twice, because after I turned it in, the partner changed her mind on the formatting she wants. there have been assignments that have sat on partners desks for three days before they give it to me, and then tell me they need by morning. at first you think hey, these people must be busy, they're partners. but then you realize that they all stroll in around 10 oclock. for some reason lawyers are incapable of doing any work before 10am. there are midlevels who like to hang out all day and only get down to business at 5pm. as the junior you must accommodate their schedule. the whole system is so plagued with inefficiency it's ridiculous.

i think people who've had real office jobs before in corporate america will be the most frustrated. ive spoken to other associates and they don't seem as frustrated as i am. i think because they think this is how normal organizations are run.

[Anonymous User]

im at a v5 in nyc. i have been here for over 2 months. i would tell my old self to listen to everyone who told me not to go to law school and that law sucks. it really does. really b/c it is so much stressful and frustrating than it has to be.

lawyers make awful business people and awful managers. they don't know how to manage people. they don't know how to efficiently run a deal. as the junior your job is to pick up the pieces of shit that fall from the top. you are always kept in the dark. i have done the same exact assignment twice, because after I turned it in, the partner changed her mind on the formatting she wants. there have been assignments that have sat on partners desks for three days before they give it to me, and then tell me they need by morning. at first you think hey, these people must be busy, they're partners. but then you realize that they all stroll in around 10 oclock. for some reason lawyers are incapable of doing any work before 10am. there are midlevels who like to hang out all day and only get down to business at 5pm. as the junior you must accommodate their schedule. the whole system is so plagued with inefficiency it's ridiculous.

i think people who've had real office jobs before in corporate america will be the most frustrated. ive spoken to other associates and they don't seem as frustrated as i am. i think because they think this is how normal organizations are run.

That reason is alcohol. They drink too much...

[Drake014]

MVP grad here at a V15.

I would tell my 2L self that 2L and 3L grades matter. A lot. I enjoy my firm, mostly because the people aren't insufferable assholes like most eager-beaver gunners on this site. However, my exit options would be a lot better if I had gotten better grades during my last two years. If you're not top 1/3 coming out of an MVP school, you're going to have to hustle your way to a long-term career (assuming you're not gunning for partner at your firm).

lllllllllllllllol. Also a top school grad at a well known biglaw firm, and couldn't disagree more. Exit options have everything to do with experience, work, practice area, and market.

+1 for interest in more discussion on this. I'm guessing grades matter more for exit options if you want to leave after two years instead of four? If we're talking NY, V rank might matter, right? When you say market, can you (or anyone else) say whether you know if grades matter more or less in NY? Or is it all about the level of responsibility your firm gave you before you left?

2L at T14 with good grades/SA, but really don't have the motivation to work like I did in 1L anymore. Have the feeling I will recede to median by the time I graduate.

See my previous post here: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p5791314

Bottom line: grades matter. Period.

Having been on both sides -- as a hiring committee member and as a lateral candidate -- grades matter. There's no two ways about it.

Its not black and white. Lots of things "matter." The point is to what degree do they matter. At some firms they're really important. At other firms, much less so.

[Anonymous User]

im at a v5 in nyc. i have been here for over 2 months. i would tell my old self to listen to everyone who told me not to go to law school and that law sucks. it really does. really b/c it is so much stressful and frustrating than it has to be.

lawyers make awful business people and awful managers. they don't know how to manage people. they don't know how to efficiently run a deal. as the junior your job is to pick up the pieces of shit that fall from the top. you are always kept in the dark. i have done the same exact assignment twice, because after I turned it in, the partner changed her mind on the formatting she wants. there have been assignments that have sat on partners desks for three days before they give it to me, and then tell me they need by morning. at first you think hey, these people must be busy, they're partners. but then you realize that they all stroll in around 10 oclock. for some reason lawyers are incapable of doing any work before 10am. there are midlevels who like to hang out all day and only get down to business at 5pm. as the junior you must accommodate their schedule. the whole system is so plagued with inefficiency it's ridiculous.

i think people who've had real office jobs before in corporate america will be the most frustrated. ive spoken to other associates and they don't seem as frustrated as i am. i think because they think this is how normal organizations are run.

Banking ends up being pretty similar sometimes so its not just Law

Nothing is done until its an emergency

[Anonymous User]

im at a v5 in nyc. i have been here for over 2 months. i would tell my old self to listen to everyone who told me not to go to law school and that law sucks. it really does. really b/c it is so much stressful and frustrating than it has to be.

lawyers make awful business people and awful managers. they don't know how to manage people. they don't know how to efficiently run a deal. as the junior your job is to pick up the pieces of shit that fall from the top. you are always kept in the dark. i have done the same exact assignment twice, because after I turned it in, the partner changed her mind on the formatting she wants. there have been assignments that have sat on partners desks for three days before they give it to me, and then tell me they need by morning. at first you think hey, these people must be busy, they're partners. but then you realize that they all stroll in around 10 oclock. for some reason lawyers are incapable of doing any work before 10am. there are midlevels who like to hang out all day and only get down to business at 5pm. as the junior you must accommodate their schedule. the whole system is so plagued with inefficiency it's ridiculous.

i think people who've had real office jobs before in corporate america will be the most frustrated. ive spoken to other associates and they don't seem as frustrated as i am. i think because they think this is how normal organizations are run.

I am at a V50 in Cal. Also two months in, patent litigation. I love my job. It's the most exciting work experience I have so far in my life. Not that my workload is light: I billed 8-10 hours each day during the past two months. I love reading the clients' secret technical documents and reverse-engineering products on the market and writing memos mixed with law and tech.

My officemates circulate fun emails all the time- food, random jokes, etc. Everyone is fun.

Biglaw is not all that miserable, except for the extremely long hours.

[Anonymous User]

As someone who was briefly on the lateral market as a very junior associate, my grades meant squat.

I am at a V10, conveyed my experiences (i.e., shit i worked on), etc. and I pretty much got anything I wanted. grades came up, and my grades were right around median when I graduated (though higher when i did OCI). nobody cared.

i think people would care if you had some C+s bombs and shit, or maybe B-s. But you don't have to be a star.

Of course, this assumes you're not trying to lateral to firms like WLRK, susman, etc.