WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

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Wachtell or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Wachtell
28
62%
PW
17
38%
 
Total votes: 45

Anonymous User
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WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:14 am

Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?

Anonymous User
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,

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dabomb75
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby dabomb75 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,


What about being blinded by the fact that you'll make approximately $300k+ over the 3 years you're likely to be at a firm.

I personally would never reject WLKR over any other firm purely for the money. Your exit options aren't going to be that much different and the pay is a huge difference

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Arbiter213
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,


You're an idiot. WLRK may have built its fiefdom on corporate work, but their litigation division is absolutely dominant as well. There is no reason to turn down WLRK for work reasons (for lit or corporate) unless you don't feel like saying goodbye to your friends and loved ones forever.

justinp
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby justinp » Fri Sep 28, 2012 9:43 am

i'm a 1L so ignore this if someone who actually knows anything tells you different, but:

do you want to be a generalist or a specialist? paul weiss (purportedly) has a wide and varied litigation practice and at least makes noises about trying to develop its associates into well-rounded litigators. wachtell's lit practice seems incredibly cutting edge and cool if you're into certain areas of corporate governance, m&a, antitrust, and so on but is pretty heavily focused on those with not a ton going on outside of that.

also i'd suggest that the marginal awfulness of the billable hour increases pretty sharply between 2300 and 3000, so keep that in mind. 50%-of-salary bonuses are less impressive when you also work 1.5x as hard.

imchuckbass58
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:00 am

justinp wrote:do you want to be a generalist or a specialist? paul weiss (purportedly) has a wide and varied litigation practice and at least makes noises about trying to develop its associates into well-rounded litigators. wachtell's lit practice seems incredibly cutting edge and cool if you're into certain areas of corporate governance, m&a, antitrust, and so on but is pretty heavily focused on those with not a ton going on outside of that.


This.

If you're fine doing securities / M&A / antitrust litigation all day long and don't mind the extra hours (or are attracted to the extra pay), go to Wachtell. If you're interested in other types of lit (white collar, IP, etc.) and value quality of life over money (relatively speaking, and at the margins), go to Paul Weiss.

KidStuddi
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,


Of course their litigation group is secondary to their corporate group. Everybody's everything group would be secondary standing next to WLRK's corporate group.
This comes down to money. Do you want a lot more of it? If so, go WLRK and laugh all the way to the bank. If you want less of it, enjoy PW.

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ph14
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby ph14 » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:43 am

KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,


Of course their litigation group is secondary to their corporate group. Everybody's everything group would be secondary standing next to WLRK's corporate group.
This comes down to money. Do you want a lot more of it? If so, go WLRK and laugh all the way to the bank. If you want less of it, enjoy PW.


Nah, this comes down to hours. Contrary to what many think WLRK is not the most desired firm out there. It's certainly a great firm, but the hours are acknowledged by other biglaw lawyers as brutal. If you think you can handle that and it's worth the extra money to you, go WLRK. If you want to bill less hours for less money (though still lots of hours and lots of money), go PW. PW is a great firm for litigation.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby somewhatwayward » Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:47 am

Are there any other choices here?

KidStuddi
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby KidStuddi » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:33 am

ph14 wrote:
KidStuddi wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Swore I wouldn't do this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm at the coin-flip stage on this. FWIW I know I want lit, and I'm looking to move on to government work rather than stay and try to make partner. Anyone? Bueller?


Paul Weiss. WLRK is not a litigation shop. Their lit is secondary to their corporate. Don't be blinded by their Vault ranking. If you're absolutely sure you want lit, Paul Weiss is the clear choice imo,


Of course their litigation group is secondary to their corporate group. Everybody's everything group would be secondary standing next to WLRK's corporate group.
This comes down to money. Do you want a lot more of it? If so, go WLRK and laugh all the way to the bank. If you want less of it, enjoy PW.


Nah, this comes down to hours. Contrary to what many think WLRK is not the most desired firm out there. It's certainly a great firm, but the hours are acknowledged by other biglaw lawyers as brutal. If you think you can handle that and it's worth the extra money to you, go WLRK. If you want to bill less hours for less money (though still lots of hours and lots of money), go PW. PW is a great firm for litigation.


Eh, I respectfully disagree. Yes, WLRK is known for fearsome hours, but everyone I've spoken to who is currently there / or lateraled from there (4 people) all say that they did not/don't work substantially more than their peers in other NYC BigLaw firms, but they were/are making 80-100% more than their peers. I don't think they were all feeding me a coordinated lie. Now if this choice were between WLRK and an elite D.C./LA firm, I'd agree with you that hours and QoL would be a serious factor. But OP seems to be dead set on NYC BigLaw -- long hours just come with the territory. Why not be extremely well paid in the process?

FWIW, the guys over at ATL said something similar several years ago:
And that’s assuming you work harder than your friends at other firms. When we were at WLRK, we billed around 2700 hours a year (and worked quite a bit more — we weren’t very efficient). Those hours are nothing to sneeze at. But we had friends at other firms who worked just as hard or harder than we did, yet made significantly less. Several of them would tell us, especially around December, “I wish I had taken that Wachtell offer.”

So if you have the opportunity, go to Wachtell. You won’t be sorry.

http://abovethelaw.com/2006/12/associat ... windfalls/

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:35 am

There's no guarantee that you'll work less at X firm than Wachtell. Foolish to turn down the money, IMO.

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IAFG
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:36 am

ToTransferOrNot wrote:There's no guarantee that you'll work less at X firm than Wachtell. Foolish to turn down the money, IMO.

I was thinking this too. How pissed will you be if you end up billing 3k hours at PW anyway, without the WLRK money to go with it?

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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:19 pm

It's not all about money. You're going to be making plenty of money either way. Only go to WLRK if you're sure you want to do corporate or antitrust lit all the time. You won't have much exposure to much else. Paul Weiss has a way broader practice, and frankly I'd rather work for a firm that prioritizes litigation.

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IAFG
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:It's not all about money. You're going to be making plenty of money either way. Only go to WLRK if you're sure you want to do corporate or antitrust lit all the time. You won't have much exposure to much else. Paul Weiss has a way broader practice, and frankly I'd rather work for a firm that prioritizes litigation.


I don't think choosing WLRK for a summer is going to box OP into corp/antitrust lit forever, should he realize he's looking for something different.

Though I agree that there's some intangible value at being at a firm that prioritizes its lit group.

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forza
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby forza » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:32 pm

justinp wrote:i'm a 1L so ignore this if someone who actually knows anything tells you different, but:

do you want to be a generalist or a specialist? paul weiss (purportedly) has a wide and varied litigation practice and at least makes noises about trying to develop its associates into well-rounded litigators. wachtell's lit practice seems incredibly cutting edge and cool if you're into certain areas of corporate governance, m&a, antitrust, and so on but is pretty heavily focused on those with not a ton going on outside of that.

also i'd suggest that the marginal awfulness of the billable hour increases pretty sharply between 2300 and 3000, so keep that in mind. 50%-of-salary bonuses are less impressive when you also work 1.5x as hard.


These responses perplex me. If you just look at the Chambers rankings:

General commercial litigation: PW and WLRK are both Band 1
White collar & gov't investigations: PW and WLRK are both Band 1
Securities litigation: PW is Band 1, WLRK is Band 2

I won't deny that PW's bread and butter is its litigation practice and WLRK is the opposite. But either way, these are both the elite of the elite for litigation. It comes down to a lifestyle choice.

RickyDnwhyc
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby RickyDnwhyc » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:36 pm

Haven't they begun severely toning down their bonuses at WLRK due to ITE?

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IAFG
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 28, 2012 12:37 pm

forza wrote: It comes down to a lifestyle choice.

Eh... maybe. PW doesn't exactly have a reputation for light hours.

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thesealocust
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:28 pm

There isn't even a guarantee that you'll do different work at PW. The firms itself almost certainly has a broader lit practice, but I'd be shocked if SOME lawyers at PW didn't handle similar matters as the Wachtell litigation shop.

The extra money and hours at Wachtell aren't enough to to make it a no-brainer. But if you are OK with the house and don't have a specific, compelling reason to enter another practice area... take the pay day! Wachtell's litigators are extremely well respected, do great work, and have great exit options. Unless you know you want to take your career in a different direction and know both what that direction is and how to execute it... take the money and run.

kaiser
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby kaiser » Fri Sep 28, 2012 1:33 pm

There is just something about the prestige and allure of WLRK (a factor that I'm not usually too swayed by). I know a bunch of people who summered at Paul Weiss. I know of only 1 person who is summering at WLRK, and that person is damn near the top person in the class at a T6.

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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Veyron » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:20 pm

I personally would never reject WLKR over any other firm purely for the money. Your exit options aren't going to be that much different and the pay is a huge difference


Seriously, THIS. If you were passionate about some work that PW does that WLRK doesn't do, I would advise you otherwise but, being as you're at the coin flip stage, taking the extra 50-100k/yr should be a no-brainier.

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piccolittle
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby piccolittle » Fri Sep 28, 2012 2:25 pm

Veyron wrote:
I personally would never reject WLKR over any other firm purely for the money. Your exit options aren't going to be that much different and the pay is a huge difference


Seriously, THIS. If you were passionate about some work that PW does that WLRK doesn't do, I would advise you otherwise but, being as you're at the coin flip stage, taking the extra 50-100k/yr should be a no-brainier.

Plus, I have a feeling that if you end up hating your summer firm, 3L OCI would be just a bit easier with Wachtell on your resume than with PW.

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IAFG
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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby IAFG » Fri Sep 28, 2012 3:29 pm

piccolittle wrote:
Veyron wrote:
I personally would never reject WLKR over any other firm purely for the money. Your exit options aren't going to be that much different and the pay is a huge difference


Seriously, THIS. If you were passionate about some work that PW does that WLRK doesn't do, I would advise you otherwise but, being as you're at the coin flip stage, taking the extra 50-100k/yr should be a no-brainier.

Plus, I have a feeling that if you end up hating your summer firm, 3L OCI would be just a bit easier with Wachtell on your resume than with PW.

Even if the ability to grab something else as a 3L is identical, wouldn't you at least want to have given WLRK a chance instead of assuming you wouldn't like it?

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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:07 pm

oddly enough, i know a lawyer who summered at wachtell but did 3l recruiting and is now at paul weiss.

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Re: WLRK or Paul Weiss for Lit?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:23 pm

If you want to do government work, PW probably is better, particularly if you want to be an AUSA.

Wachtell will have higher pay and more hours.

At Wachtell, you'd be a litigator at a corporate firm. At PW, you'd be a litigator at a litigator's firm. That's a plus for PW.

Are there any other firms you're considering?




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