Is V&E Underrated?

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Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:22 pm

I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.

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bk1
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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby bk1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:26 pm

You realize that Vault is merely a survey of associates and since most associates work in NYC that it thus skews heavily towards NYC?

de5igual
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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby de5igual » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:29 pm

Is this for V&E NY? The Chambers rankings for V&E reflect the work in Houston more so than NYC.

0L Hoping for 1
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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby 0L Hoping for 1 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.


Not bad talking V&E at all. It is a great firm, but I think some people at Baker Botts would disagree with the bolded. *one* of the best firms.
Last edited by 0L Hoping for 1 on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:35 pm

f0bolous wrote:Is this for V&E NY? The Chambers rankings for V&E reflect the work in Houston more so than NYC.


The Chambers rankings list both Texas and New York as band 1 for the practice area. In fact, almost all of the areas that they are listed as band 1 for in Texas also list their New York office.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:36 pm

Go with V&E. The difference in quality of life and cost of living will be unbelieveable.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:36 pm

0L Hoping for 1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.


Not bad talking V&E at all, it is a great firm, but I think some people at Baker Botts would disagree with the bolded. *one* of the best firms.


Haha I knew this was going to come out! Fine, the two are the Harvard and Yale of Texas.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:38 pm

FWIW, I know a guy who chose V&E over a V3 firm.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:46 pm

Assuming this is TX for both options, go with your gut and take V&E. If it's both NY offices then probably V10. If its V&E TX and V10 NYC go where you would rather be between TX and NYC/the firms themselves.

To answer your original question. V&E TX, like most non-NYC firms is probably underrated. The NYC office, however, is probably rated correctly.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:49 pm

Which office? I'd chose V&E DC over the V10 no question.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:51 pm

So is the general consensus that they are underrated and there isn't a significant downside to this choice? I really don't want to lose out on exit options, but it seems like they do just as big of deals as any of the other big players in capital markets and M&A.

I should also mention that there is potentially an opportunity to split between one of their TX and NY offices for the summer. I've been told that the firm has a "one firm" approach and that associates in NY work on the same deals as the guys in Texas. It's also hard for me to fathom that any firm's New York office could really be treated like a satellite. I think I might like to spend a few years in NY, so I suppose their reputation in NYC is important to me as well. Someone above alluded to the fact that Chambers might apply more to Houston, but it also lists NY in the same categories. Can anyone tell me what the deal is there?

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Lincoln » Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:FWIW, I know a guy who chose V&E over a V3 firm.


Blatant pro-Skadden trolling.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby fish52 » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:02 pm

My understanding is that if you go to V&E in TX, you will have great exit options in Texas. However, if you are considering exit options outside of Texas, the V10 is the much better choice. It all depends where you want to end up.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.


Which office?

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby DallasCowboy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:39 pm

Seems like OP is talking about NYC V&E. In which case, no, do not take that over V10.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby DallasCowboy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote: I've been told that the firm has a "one firm" approach and that associates in NY work on the same deals as the guys in Texas. It's also hard for me to fathom that any firm's New York office could really be treated like a satellite. Can anyone tell me what the deal is there?


Exactly. Facilitates the TX-driven deals. A satellite.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:47 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I've been told that the firm has a "one firm" approach and that associates in NY work on the same deals as the guys in Texas. It's also hard for me to fathom that any firm's New York office could really be treated like a satellite. Can anyone tell me what the deal is there?


Exactly. Facilitates the TX-driven deals. A satellite.


I understand this, but the point is that the NY associates get the same high quality work as the TX ones. Seems like in terms of the actual deal work, it is comparable to what I would be doing at a firm ranked higher.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:48 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
0L Hoping for 1 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am still choosing a firm, and I've basically narrowed it down to a V10 and Vinson & Elkins with a couple other options further behind. I thought the V10 was okay, but I really liked the people I met at V&E and the summers I know who worked there last year said a lot of great things about it. It seems like they do a lot of huge, high profile deals on a regular basis, and they generally seem to be considered the best firm in their home state of Texas. They also seem to be more concerned with fit than some of the other firms I interviewed at, so I liked the culture.

My gut is to go with V&E, but their Vault ranking is somewhere in the 50s. I'm looking to do capital markets and M&A work, and I know Chambers rates their corporate work in Band 1 in multiple states. How much should the Vault ranking factor into this decision? Is there anything I should know about V&E that I'm not seeing? It seems like Chambers has a little bit of a better grip on reality than Vault, but I know that prestige seems to matter sometimes and that is generally based on Vault. Any guidance would be really helpful.


Not bad talking V&E at all, it is a great firm, but I think some people at Baker Botts would disagree with the bolded. *one* of the best firms.


Haha I knew this was going to come out! Fine, the two are the Harvard and Yale of Texas.


I imagine some people at BB would take offense - but I would argue they'd be wrong. I'm at a BigTex firm that is not either BB or V&E, and virtually everyone not employed at BB would agree that V&E has the best transactional work in Texas. I chose my firm over V&E for a variety of reasons - but mostly because V&E Dallas is a pale imitation of V&E Houston and I wanted to be in Dallas.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:50 pm

Latham Houston is 1 or 2 for some metrics for energy work now.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:52 pm

DallasCowboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I've been told that the firm has a "one firm" approach and that associates in NY work on the same deals as the guys in Texas. It's also hard for me to fathom that any firm's New York office could really be treated like a satellite. Can anyone tell me what the deal is there?


Exactly. Facilitates the TX-driven deals. A satellite.


Wrong. V&E NY office associates rarely work on deals sourced out of TX. They can if they seek it out - but they tend to be doing their own stuff.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Latham Houston is 1 or 2 for some metrics for energy work now.


I heard Latham had to spend a ton of money to woo some V&E partners away to try to build any kind of practice in TX. They still don't seem like one of the big dogs there to me.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
DallasCowboy wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I've been told that the firm has a "one firm" approach and that associates in NY work on the same deals as the guys in Texas. It's also hard for me to fathom that any firm's New York office could really be treated like a satellite. Can anyone tell me what the deal is there?


Exactly. Facilitates the TX-driven deals. A satellite.


I understand this, but the point is that the NY associates get the same high quality work as the TX ones. Seems like in terms of the actual deal work, it is comparable to what I would be doing at a firm ranked higher.


For M&A maybe, but for capital markets, the V10 firm is probably better in NYC. Although I'm sure V&E NY generates its own business a lot of it is probably going to be largely Houston related stuff as opposed to the more traditional capital markets work in NY. Just look at the capital markets group page. There is one contact in NYC and 4 in Houston. Of course some of that is because of the relative office sizes, but it suggests that the TX work probably dominates.

The thing is that the quality of life is probably not going to be that much different among firms in NYC. It's not like V&E NY is going to have the QOL of the V&E TX offices. You are going to work NY hours most likely. The NYC V10 and V&E NYC are going to be more alike than VE NY and VE TX on that front. Also, unless you want to go work in TX eventually, it's probably better to have the V10 on your resume than V&E. Finally, being at a small satellite office is potentially more risky if things go bad since they will probably cut people there first (of course if your V10 is Latham, based on what some people here say, it's probably not that much less risky).

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:25 pm

V&E is totally underrated; they are even trying to become a bigger force in NYC so it would be great to be a part of that. It's also someplace you can stay for more than 3 years, as opposed to getting kicked out after 3 years at a V10 firm in NYC.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So is the general consensus that they are underrated and there isn't a significant downside to this choice? I really don't want to lose out on exit options, but it seems like they do just as big of deals as any of the other big players in capital markets and M&A.


The general consensus is that the Vault rankings are irrelevant for ranking firms in Texas. The Chambers Texas rankings are more reflective of the legal landscape of the state, though not necessarily of the pecking order within different cities. That said, go to wherever you feel you'd be happier rather than for the highest-ranked firm. Also, if exit options are a primary concern, it's worth noting that V&E, as an old Texas firm, has strong relationships with institutional clients in Texas that many of the carpetbaggers do not.

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Re: Is V&E Underrated?

Postby englawyer » Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:02 pm

Their corporate work for Enron was unparalleled : )




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