UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

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UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:45 pm

UChicago, Class of 2013, What some of us are doing this summer:

9.4% in the V5
12.1% in the V5-10 range (so 21.4% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-15 range (so 33.5% total in the V15)
4.5% in the V16-20 range (so 37.9% total in the V20)
8.5% in the V21-30 range (so 46.4% total in the V30)
10.3% in the V31-50 range (so 56.7% total in the V50)
12.1% in the V51-100 range (so 68.8% total in the V100)
8.5% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 77.2% total in the V100/NLJ250)

I should add that the Vault rankings don't really do UChicago justice compared to say, NYU, since the rankings are so NYC-centric; a significant portion of people from UChicago choose to go other places (Chicago, Texas, DC, California, etc.).

Here's what they were last year (Class of 2012):

7.1% in the V5
8.6% in the V5-10 range (so 15.7% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-20 range (so 31.9% total in the V20)
6.2% in the V21-30 range (so 38.1% total in the V30)
13.8% in the V31-50 range (so 51.9% total in the V50)
11.4% in the V51-100 range (so 63.3% total in the V100)
5.7% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 69% total in the V100/NLJ250)

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rayiner
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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:55 pm

Comparison with summer 2006: http://lawfirmaddict.blogspot.com/2007/ ... ement.html

Code: Select all

          2006         2010         2011
Vault 5:  14.6%         7.1%         9.4%
Vault 10: 27.1%        15.7%        21.4%
Vault 50: 67.7%        51.9%        56.7%


As expected, better, but still closer to bust-times than boom-times.

Awesome for Chicago for providing such detailed data!

I should add that the Vault rankings don't really do UChicago justice compared to say, NYU, since the rankings are so NYC-centric; a significant portion of people from UChicago choose to go other places (Chicago, Texas, DC, California, etc.).


Vault is NYC-centric in the sense that the NYC firms are ranked higher than comparable firms in other markets, but the V100 does still encompass most of the good firms in DC, Texas, California, etc, excepting a few smaller ones that don't hire very many people.

You can see this by looking at the incremental increase in hiring from V50 -> V100 -> NLJ 250. 56% of the class was hired by the 50 firms in the V50, while the additional 200 firms in the NLJ 250 outside the V50 only hired an additional 21% of the class. The increment was even smaller in 2006, where the additional 50 firms in the V50-100 were responsible for hiring only an additional 3.7% of the class. Placement outside the V50 is a matter of exigency more so than self-selection even for people targeting non-NYC markets.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby ahnhub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Here's what they were last year (Class of 2012):

7.1% in the V5
8.6% in the V5-10 range (so 15.7% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-20 range (so 31.9% total in the V20)
6.2% in the V21-30 range (so 38.1% total in the V30)
13.8% in the V31-50 range (so 51.9% total in the V50)
11.4% in the V51-100 range (so 63.3% total in the V100)
5.7% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 69% total in the V100/NLJ250)


I just wanted to clear this up for c/o 2012:

Chicago reports 77% of that class working at a law firm for 2L summer: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... oymentdata

So basically about 8% of the class was working at a law firm which was not NLJ250 (77%-69%).

I've sort of been under the impression that if you couldn't swing a Biglaw SA for 2L summer, students preferred to just do another year of government/PI work or even just do research for a professor rather than trying to work at a small firm for a year. But it does seem a significant number work at non-Biglaw firms. What's the benefit in doing so? Do some of them get full-time offers? . I guess it's possible that's all they could find, but I would presume it's easier to just work a government job for free than find a small law firm willing to pay you.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:20 pm

ahnhub wrote:I've sort of been under the impression that if you couldn't swing a Biglaw SA for 2L summer, students preferred to just do another year of government/PI work or even just do research for a professor rather than trying to work at a small firm for a year. But it does seem a significant number work at non-Biglaw firms. What's the benefit in doing so? Do some of them get full-time offers? . I guess it's possible that's all they could find, but I would presume it's easier to just work a government job for free than find a small law firm willing to pay you.


There are a number of firms in Chicago under 50 attorneys that hire summer clerks. I think the usual deal is that clerks typically get paid half an associates salary (so half of $70-80k/year) on an hourly basis. They don't all give clerks full time offers, but it's a good way to put yourself in the running for an offer.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:30 pm

ahnhub wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Here's what they were last year (Class of 2012):

7.1% in the V5
8.6% in the V5-10 range (so 15.7% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-20 range (so 31.9% total in the V20)
6.2% in the V21-30 range (so 38.1% total in the V30)
13.8% in the V31-50 range (so 51.9% total in the V50)
11.4% in the V51-100 range (so 63.3% total in the V100)
5.7% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 69% total in the V100/NLJ250)


I just wanted to clear this up for c/o 2012:

Chicago reports 77% of that class working at a law firm for 2L summer: http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... oymentdata

So basically about 8% of the class was working at a law firm which was not NLJ250 (77%-69%).

I've sort of been under the impression that if you couldn't swing a Biglaw SA for 2L summer, students preferred to just do another year of government/PI work or even just do research for a professor rather than trying to work at a small firm for a year. But it does seem a significant number work at non-Biglaw firms. What's the benefit in doing so? Do some of them get full-time offers? . I guess it's possible that's all they could find, but I would presume it's easier to just work a government job for free than find a small law firm willing to pay you.



NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby 005618502 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:UChicago, Class of 2013, What some of us are doing this summer:

9.4% in the V5
12.1% in the V5-10 range (so 21.4% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-15 range (so 33.5% total in the V15)
4.5% in the V16-20 range (so 37.9% total in the V20)
8.5% in the V21-30 range (so 46.4% total in the V30)
10.3% in the V31-50 range (so 56.7% total in the V50)
12.1% in the V51-100 range (so 68.8% total in the V100)
8.5% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 77.2% total in the V100/NLJ250)

I should add that the Vault rankings don't really do UChicago justice compared to say, NYU, since the rankings are so NYC-centric; a significant portion of people from UChicago choose to go other places (Chicago, Texas, DC, California, etc.).

Here's what they were last year (Class of 2012):

7.1% in the V5
8.6% in the V5-10 range (so 15.7% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-20 range (so 31.9% total in the V20)
6.2% in the V21-30 range (so 38.1% total in the V30)
13.8% in the V31-50 range (so 51.9% total in the V50)
11.4% in the V51-100 range (so 63.3% total in the V100)
5.7% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 69% total in the V100/NLJ250)


Wow, good job OP.

Do most schools post this kind of information? 77% is really good!!

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:35 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:UChicago, Class of 2013, What some of us are doing this summer:

9.4% in the V5
12.1% in the V5-10 range (so 21.4% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-15 range (so 33.5% total in the V15)
4.5% in the V16-20 range (so 37.9% total in the V20)
8.5% in the V21-30 range (so 46.4% total in the V30)
10.3% in the V31-50 range (so 56.7% total in the V50)
12.1% in the V51-100 range (so 68.8% total in the V100)
8.5% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 77.2% total in the V100/NLJ250)

I should add that the Vault rankings don't really do UChicago justice compared to say, NYU, since the rankings are so NYC-centric; a significant portion of people from UChicago choose to go other places (Chicago, Texas, DC, California, etc.).

Here's what they were last year (Class of 2012):

7.1% in the V5
8.6% in the V5-10 range (so 15.7% total in the V10)
16.2% in the V11-20 range (so 31.9% total in the V20)
6.2% in the V21-30 range (so 38.1% total in the V30)
13.8% in the V31-50 range (so 51.9% total in the V50)
11.4% in the V51-100 range (so 63.3% total in the V100)
5.7% at firms not in Vault, but in the NLJ250 (so 69% total in the V100/NLJ250)


Wow, good job OP.

Do most schools post this kind of information? 77% is really good!!


UChicago doesn't post this, although they do circulate around a list of where everybody is working for the summer, which I think is relatively rare among even top schools. I agree about the data looking pretty good. It's not the boom times again, but a third of the class in the V15 is not too shabby at all.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.


Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B, usually taking one from each. Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Bartlit doesn't take SA's. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby ahnhub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:47 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote: Do most schools post this kind of information? 77% is really good!!


I cruise TLS for employment info a lot, and I've only seen it broken down this way for Columbia, Chicago, and Duke. I think it's just students who receive a list of every person working at a firm, and they have to analyze the information themselves and present it to TLS. Some schools are more secretive about it. Big thanks to whoever posted this.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:48 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.


Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B (usually taking one from each). Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.


One of my good friends will be working for Susman this summer. Keker gave at least one UChicago student an offer. Not sure if anybody from here is working there or not. I know at least two UChicago people who are working at Kellogg this summer. Sure, it's not many students, but at UChicago where every student makes up roughly 0.5% of their class...

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:52 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.


Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B (usually taking one from each). Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.


I'm at Chicago, and I have the data in front of me. Susman has had four Chicago summer associates in the past three years, and KH has had three. (I'm not including this summer because I don't have the list.) And Keker did OCI at Chicago last year—at least one person had an offer, though I don't know if (s)he accepted.

And the NLJ 250 often excludes top firms in smaller markets. For example, I don't think it includes Osborne Maledon in Phoenix or Parr Brown in Salt Lake. (I might be wrong on these particular firms, but you get the idea.)

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby ringo » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:53 pm

Thanks for posting this.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.


Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B (usually taking one from each). Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.


One of my good friends will be working for Susman this summer. Keker gave at least one UChicago student an offer. Not sure if anybody from here is working there or not. I know at least two UChicago people who are working at Kellogg this summer. Sure, it's not many students, but at UChicago where every student makes up roughly 0.5% of their class...


I'm not saying that a few people don't work at these places each year. I'm just pointing out that the majority of the folks working outside the NLJ250 are not working at these unbelievably selective places.

EDIT: Interesting that Keker does OCI at Chicago. This must be new, since their web site still says HYSB.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:07 pm

rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:NLJ 250 also misses small (and often quite prestigious) market-paying firms that Chicago students regularly summer at: Susman, Kellogg Huber, Eimer Stahl, Grippo, Keker.


Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B (usually taking one from each). Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.


One of my good friends will be working for Susman this summer. Keker gave at least one UChicago student an offer. Not sure if anybody from here is working there or not. I know at least two UChicago people who are working at Kellogg this summer. Sure, it's not many students, but at UChicago where every student makes up roughly 0.5% of their class...


I'm not saying that a few people don't work at these places each year. I'm just pointing out that the majority of the folks working outside the NLJ250 are not working at these unbelievably selective places.

EDIT: Interesting that Keker does OCI at Chicago. This must be new, since their web site still says HYSB.


And Irell's website says it has a "nearly one-to-one associate to partner ratio" (hint: it's higher than 2:1).

My point is that a majority of Chicago students at non-NLJ250 firms are at selective firms. Eight percent of the class—or sixteen students—are at non-NLJ250 firms. At least eight of them are at selective firms such as Susman, KH, and Eimer.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Susman doesn't have a single associate from U Chicago. Keker hires 4 2L SA's from the whole country. They recruit only at HYS + B (usually taking one from each). Kellogg only hires a few 2L SA's nationwide, and might take one from U Chicago every other year. Eimer and Grippo probably hire 1-2 each summer though.


One of my good friends will be working for Susman this summer. Keker gave at least one UChicago student an offer. Not sure if anybody from here is working there or not. I know at least two UChicago people who are working at Kellogg this summer. Sure, it's not many students, but at UChicago where every student makes up roughly 0.5% of their class...


I'm not saying that a few people don't work at these places each year. I'm just pointing out that the majority of the folks working outside the NLJ250 are not working at these unbelievably selective places.

EDIT: Interesting that Keker does OCI at Chicago. This must be new, since their web site still says HYSB.


And Irell's website says it has a "nearly one-to-one associate to partner ratio" (hint: it's higher than 2:1).

My point is that a majority of Chicago students at non-NLJ250 firms are at selective firms. Eight percent of the class—or sixteen students—are at non-NLJ250 firms. At least eight of them are at selective firms such as Susman, KH, and Eimer.


That's quite a claim. Does Eimer hire like 5 people?

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:48 pm

This is becoming tedious. Last summer there were 3 at Goldberg, 2 at Susman, 1 at KH, 1 at AZA, 1 at Grippo, 1 at Eimer, and 1 at Parr Brown. And I'm sure there are other prestigious/market-paying boutiques that I don't recognize. hth. I'm out.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby skers » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:05 pm

Are the numbers controlling for those that can't participate in OCI or total percentage of class?

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:06 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:Are the numbers controlling for those that can't participate in OCI or total percentage of class?


Total class. I don't have any info on how many people participate in OCI. There are a lot of people with prestigious government jobs, but I have no idea whether or not they tried for a firm during OCI.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby ahnhub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:16 pm

Sorry, I'm just trying to put the info together:

So 77% of the class is doing a 2L summer job at an NLJ 250 firm. 8% more are working at a non-NLJ 250 firm, which is some mix of super-exclusive and not-very exclusive firm. Is that right?

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:20 pm

ahnhub wrote:Sorry, I'm just trying to put the info together:

So 77% of the class is doing a 2L summer job at an NLJ 250 firm. 8% more are working at a non-NLJ 250 firm, which is some mix of super-exclusive and not-very exclusive firm. Is that right?


Essentially, yes. I should also add that the super-exclusive / not-very-exclusive dichotomy might not be exactly fair. Some people going to smaller firms are returning back to their (quite small) home market that doesn't really have any NLJ250 firms. These people couldn't necessarily land one of the super-prestigious boutique firms, but could have landed a V100 easily if they wouldn't have been set on the small market.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby skers » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TemporarySaint wrote:Are the numbers controlling for those that can't participate in OCI or total percentage of class?


Total class. I don't have any info on how many people participate in OCI. There are a lot of people with prestigious government jobs, but I have no idea whether or not they tried for a firm during OCI.


Word. I just know 7-10 people on last year's class couldn't participate in OCI, so the actual number of those who could who snagged NLJ250 positions last year was 72%. This year's percentage is probably 80%+.

Thanks for posting this.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby rayiner » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:This is becoming tedious. Last summer there were 3 at Goldberg, 2 at Susman, 1 at KH, 1 at AZA, 1 at Grippo, 1 at Eimer, and 1 at Parr Brown. And I'm sure there are other prestigious/market-paying boutiques that I don't recognize. hth. I'm out.


Thanks for the info. Wasn't trying to antagonize you, but you can see why anyone would be skeptical when you hand-wavingly claim that the non-NLJ250 jobs were at places there hire mostly post-clerkship. That's very impressive though, specially for a school with ~200 students.

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby drbarry987 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:35 pm

lol. This is like 20%+ placement than NYU

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby ahnhub » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:36 pm

drbarry987 wrote:lol. This is like 20%+ placement than NYU


What are you basing this on?

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Re: UChicago Firm Statistics for 2L Summer for C/O 2013

Postby drbarry987 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:46 pm

.
Last edited by drbarry987 on Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.




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