Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:56 pm

I pulled a 3.1 last semester. I was a transfer to a T10 with a 3.8. I think the drop had more to do with the geographic adjustment and some other factors rather than ability, but obviously I am concerned. I have accepted an SA position with a V30 firm and am a bit worried the position or an offer after might be in jeopardy. Does anyone have any insight or experience with this?

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:59 pm

its an unusual case. ordinarily it would be cause for concern but since you transferred they probably will give you leeway for adjustment. Obviously work harder this semester and you are more in the clear. Repeat performance? Yikes, especially if its a NY or DC office.

User avatar
koalatriste
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:08 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby koalatriste » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:06 pm

there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:11 pm

That's not exactly true.

If your 1L grades look like this

A- A-
A A
B+ A
A B+


And your 2L grades look like this

B+
B
B
B

A question could be raised. Often times one partner might want his candidate to stay and another partner might not like his candidate. Stuff like this gives at least fuel to the guy who dislikes the candidate.

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Ludo! » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:16 pm

I think in that case your bigger problem is that a partner doesn't like you

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:44 pm

koalatriste wrote:there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?



In all likelihood, the firm will not request your grades nor care much about them. For most firms, your offer will be contingent upon your writing and ability to play nice with others.

/thread

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:46 pm

Big Shrimpin wrote:
koalatriste wrote:there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?



In all likelihood, the firm will not request your grades nor care much about them. For most firms, your offer will be contingent upon your writing and ability to play nice with others.

/thread


OP here:

My firm asks for grades

MrAnon
Posts: 1615
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:08 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby MrAnon » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
koalatriste wrote:there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?



In all likelihood, the firm will not request your grades nor care much about them. For most firms, your offer will be contingent upon your writing and ability to play nice with others.

/thread


OP here:

My firm asks for grades


Just work harder this semester. There is not much you can do about last semester. Its over with.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:55 pm

MrAnon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
koalatriste wrote:there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?



In all likelihood, the firm will not request your grades nor care much about them. For most firms, your offer will be contingent upon your writing and ability to play nice with others.

/thread


OP here:

My firm asks for grades


Just work harder this semester. There is not much you can do about last semester. Its over with.


That's my plan. I'm not going to let last semester affect me, but I just wanted to figure out the general experience of anyone with a similar situation (if anyone out there has had this happen).

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Big Shrimpin wrote:
koalatriste wrote:there is NO reason for concern. when will these threads stop?



In all likelihood, the firm will not request your grades nor care much about them. For most firms, your offer will be contingent upon your writing and ability to play nice with others.

/thread


OP here:

My firm asks for grades


If you're that concerned, why not reach-out to a younger associate you met during interviews or someone who summered there in the past (like last year)? This is what I did, and it resulted in a stress-reduced spring semester. In my experience, the associates don't care whether you're worried about grades because the associates worried about the same thing when they were 3Ls.

Look, your firm may just request grades as a formality, in which case you shouldn't worry. If in fact they request as a factor in determining full-time offers (I'm not aware of any biglaw firm that makes substantive decisions based upon grades...some say they factor them in, but I would imagine you'd be hard-pressed to find an instance of it actually happening, barring someone failing a class or something), then yea, you should be bugging out.

03121202698008
Posts: 3002
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 2:07 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I pulled a 3.1 last semester. I was a transfer to a T10 with a 3.8. I think the drop had more to do with the geographic adjustment and some other factors rather than ability, but obviously I am concerned. I have accepted an SA position with a V30 firm and am a bit worried the position or an offer after might be in jeopardy. Does anyone have any insight or experience with this?


No offense, but it wasn't geographical adjustment nor would I ever attempt to explain it that way. Have you considered that a 3.8 at your old school might be equivalent to median at the new and you just had a slightly bad semester? While all schools teach the same thing...there are some differences in the student's ability to write. I don't know of a single transfer who maintained anywhere near the same GPA after transferring. Just saying...don't try to justify it to a firm with a bullshit excuse.

Also, it probably won't matter.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:07 pm

Just a few points:

1. You are a transfer and will get some more leeway than most. Grades at your old school are not equivalent to grades at your new school so a drop isnt unexpected or out of the ordinary. In addition, they will likely note that you needed a bit more time to adjust and weren't able to hit your stride during fall of 2L year

2. But all of the above stresses the importance of spring semester. If you do well (not necessarily a 3.8 again, but well) it will show that fall was an anomale and now that you are in a groove and set in at the new school, you are doing fine. Firms aren't like schools who really only care about the overall average GPA. A firm will be much more willing to note the upward trend and be more willing to write off just one bad semester. They actually care about what the grades represent about you, rather than just assessing the total numbers as a computer would with little regard for anything else (as schools do).

FYI im in the same situation and im not terribly worried. Had a 3.6, transferred to a T10, and got a 3.0 first semester here. I spent much longer on the job search than most people (wasn't hired by my firm until mid october) and only then did I really get to begin the process of adjusting to my new school. But I know I will do better this sem since I was able to hit the ground running and focus all semester long. Just put that one bad sem behind you, focus on this new one, do well, and no one will care about the last one.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:09 pm

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I pulled a 3.1 last semester. I was a transfer to a T10 with a 3.8. I think the drop had more to do with the geographic adjustment and some other factors rather than ability, but obviously I am concerned. I have accepted an SA position with a V30 firm and am a bit worried the position or an offer after might be in jeopardy. Does anyone have any insight or experience with this?


No offense, but it wasn't geographical adjustment nor would I ever attempt to explain it that way. Have you considered that a 3.8 at your old school might be equivalent to median at the new and you just had a slightly bad semester? While all schools teach the same thing...there are some differences in the student's ability to write. I don't know of a single transfer who maintained anywhere near the same GPA after transferring. Just saying...don't try to justify it to a firm with a bullshit excuse.

Also, it probably won't matter.


Obviously the drop wasn't just geographic adjustment; I had anticipated my gpa dropping a bit (not this much). I also wasn't planning on explaining it to them like that.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:16 pm

blowhard wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I pulled a 3.1 last semester. I was a transfer to a T10 with a 3.8. I think the drop had more to do with the geographic adjustment and some other factors rather than ability, but obviously I am concerned. I have accepted an SA position with a V30 firm and am a bit worried the position or an offer after might be in jeopardy. Does anyone have any insight or experience with this?


No offense, but it wasn't geographical adjustment nor would I ever attempt to explain it that way. Have you considered that a 3.8 at your old school might be equivalent to median at the new and you just had a slightly bad semester? While all schools teach the same thing...there are some differences in the student's ability to write. I don't know of a single transfer who maintained anywhere near the same GPA after transferring. Just saying...don't try to justify it to a firm with a bullshit excuse.


harsh, dood

oh and YMMV on anecdotes - take a look at the "how did your grades change post-transfer" thread in the transfers forum...some kids still killed it

blowhard wrote:Also, it probably won't matter.


lol nice

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:24 pm

People need to calm down with the grades don't matter at all for an offer thing. I'm not saying it's critical, but I know that many firms ask for grades before making an offer. I have already been told that my firm does that. I'm beginning to realize that some of the things on here that are routinely repeated as if they are fact are often much less than that.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:27 pm

Just make sure you do better this semester. If you show strong grades, they wont no offer for just one bad sem, when a drop for a transfer is totally understandable in the first place. Whether they ask for grades or not, just do well this sem and I highly doubt there will be a problem

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Ludo! » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:People need to calm down with the grades don't matter at all for an offer thing. I'm not saying it's critical, but I know that many firms ask for grades before making an offer. I have already been told that my firm does that. I'm beginning to realize that some of the things on here that are routinely repeated as if they are fact are often much less than that.


Pull conclusion out of your ass = having a revelation that the TLS common wisdom is wrong? Link me to one story about a person who got no offered exclusively because their grades dropped 2l year.

User avatar
Big Shrimpin
Posts: 2468
Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:35 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Big Shrimpin » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:33 pm

Ludovico Technique wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:People need to calm down with the grades don't matter at all for an offer thing. I'm not saying it's critical, but I know that many firms ask for grades before making an offer. I have already been told that my firm does that. I'm beginning to realize that some of the things on here that are routinely repeated as if they are fact are often much less than that.


Pull conclusion out of your ass = having a revelation that the TLS common wisdom is wrong? Link me to one story about a person who got no offered exclusively because their grades dropped 2l year.


:lol:

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:34 pm

OP here.

Thanks for all the (ongoing) advice/support/help/information. I obviously plan on kicking ass this semester and doing better.

User avatar
RMstratosphere
Posts: 443
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:25 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby RMstratosphere » Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:People need to calm down with the grades don't matter at all for an offer thing. I'm not saying it's critical, but I know that many firms ask for grades before making an offer. I have already been told that my firm does that. I'm beginning to realize that some of the things on here that are routinely repeated as if they are fact are often much less than that.


Name more than one firm or link a single story of someone being no-offered for grades.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273567
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:19 pm

RMstratosphere wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:People need to calm down with the grades don't matter at all for an offer thing. I'm not saying it's critical, but I know that many firms ask for grades before making an offer. I have already been told that my firm does that. I'm beginning to realize that some of the things on here that are routinely repeated as if they are fact are often much less than that.


Name more than one firm or link a single story of someone being no-offered for grades.


This is the first time I've posted in this thread.

My firm (v100, non-NY) asked for grades from fall 2L and spring 2L before making the offer.

It's just as much an anecdote that grades aren't a factor as it is that they are, regardless of "TLS wisdom". If your summer performance gives your firm a reason to look at them, then they will.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby IAFG » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:23 pm

IDK why anyone would trust that a person's explanation for why they go no-offered is accurate. Or ever rests on just one thing.

LawIdiot86
Posts: 1159
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:28 pm

IAFG wrote:IDK why anyone would trust that a person's explanation for why they go no-offered is accurate. Or ever rests on just one thing.


I would agree, but sometimes it's fairly obvious. Like, if someone says they were told they didn't pay enough attention to detail and turned in shoddy work, I would believe that was the real reason they were no-offered.

User avatar
Ludo!
Posts: 4764
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:22 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby Ludo! » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
If your summer performance gives your firm a reason to look at them, then they will.


Then that means your summer performance was the problem, not your grades. Just because firms ask for your grades doesn't mean anything. I've never read a single story, or even heard an anecdote, about a person who was no offered exclusively because of grades.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Bad 2L fall grades. SA position in jeopardy?

Postby IAFG » Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:35 pm

LawIdiot86 wrote:
IAFG wrote:IDK why anyone would trust that a person's explanation for why they go no-offered is accurate. Or ever rests on just one thing.


I would agree, but sometimes it's fairly obvious. Like, if someone says they were told they didn't pay enough attention to detail and turned in shoddy work, I would believe that was the real reason they were no-offered.

And yet I've never heard anyone say that.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.