Job Prospects State by State Forum

[mmribail]

So is it worse then the numbers indicate or better?

[Renne Walker]

IMHO: The part of the survey that is reliable (from the data I have seen in the past) is that there are roughly 45,000-50,000 attorneys trying to land one of the 25,000 annual openings. As far as the state breakout, some of their findings might be ballpark-right, some not.

[romothesavior]

Wasn't this study the one that said their weren't many lawyers in dc because few people take the bar there? But almost everyone in dc takes their local bar, so that stat is worthless. If you think there are too few lawyers on dc, I guess go ahead and believe the study.

Also I don't know where they get their numbers for jobs available, I think that there about 5000 jobs in NYC alone but they have about 2000 for the whole state.

+1. How many biglawl SAs are there? 1-2k or something? I can't remember what thesealocust said, but there was a thread about it.

The study is absolute shit.

[Grizz]

So is it worse then the numbers indicate or better?

Worse or better in what way?

[sebastian0622]

The study doesn't show what it purports to show, but it's at least somewhat useful to see the number of people taking/passing the bar compared to the number of jobs available.

[romothesavior]

The study doesn't show what it purports to show, but it's at least somewhat useful to see the number of people taking/passing the bar compared to the number of jobs available.

Except it doesn't really do either of these effectively. It shows the number of people taking/passing the bar, but that number is meaningless in a handful of places (such as Wisconsin and D.C.) for the purpose of understanding how many job-seekers there are. It also doesn't seem to be accurate re: the number of jobs available. I really have no idea how they came up with that number for NY.

[sebastian0622]

The study doesn't show what it purports to show, but it's at least somewhat useful to see the number of people taking/passing the bar compared to the number of jobs available.

Except it doesn't really do either of these effectively. It shows the number of people taking/passing the bar, but that number is meaningless in a handful of places (such as Wisconsin and D.C.) for the purpose of understanding how many job-seekers there are. It also doesn't seem to be accurate re: the number of jobs available. I really have no idea how they came up with that number for NY.

It might not be helpful for certain areas, but for other areas (and at the aggregate), it gives some information.

[LawIdiot86]

It doesn't matter how many jobs there are available or how many people are competing for those jobs when you are looking for a job that determines if you end up employer. It only matters how people view you (charisma/school reputation), how well you match the criteria of the job posting (GPA/skills), and how broad/low you are willing to go to accept work. Once you start setting criteria like "a litigation job" or "a NY job" or "a biglaw job," you are the one limiting your own chances of success. I know this after going to law school to do corporate biglaw work in NY/DC and failing at that, but discovering there are literally hundreds of jobs out there that will pay my rent, loans, and groceries while not making me hate myself. I just got off the phone with a screener for a non-legal professional services job paying 40-60k that requires extensive travel to ultra-hazardous areas. It's not a sweet firm job in DC, but it isn't despair either.

[Anonymous User]

It doesn't matter how many jobs there are available or how many people are competing for those jobs when you are looking for a job that determines if you end up employer. It only matters how people view you (charisma/school reputation), how well you match the criteria of the job posting (GPA/skills), and how broad/low you are willing to go to accept work. Once you start setting criteria like "a litigation job" or "a NY job" or "a biglaw job," you are the one limiting your own chances of success. I know this after going to law school to do corporate biglaw work in NY/DC and failing at that, but discovering there are literally hundreds of jobs out there that will pay my rent, loans, and groceries while not making me hate myself. I just got off the phone with a screener for a non-legal professional services job paying 40-60k that requires extensive travel to ultra-hazardous areas. It's not a sweet firm job in DC, but it isn't despair either.

That makes no sense.... Everything is determined by the market and competition on the market. Why do you think it is so easy to get a job as a doctor even from a t4 medical school? There is a shortage of doctors. Not so for lawyers.

[romothesavior]

It doesn't matter how many jobs there are available or how many people are competing for those jobs when you are looking for a job that determines if you end up employer. It only matters how people view you (charisma/school reputation), how well you match the criteria of the job posting (GPA/skills), and how broad/low you are willing to go to accept work. Once you start setting criteria like "a litigation job" or "a NY job" or "a biglaw job," you are the one limiting your own chances of success. I know this after going to law school to do corporate biglaw work in NY/DC and failing at that, but discovering there are literally hundreds of jobs out there that will pay my rent, loans, and groceries while not making me hate myself. I just got off the phone with a screener for a non-legal professional services job paying 40-60k that requires extensive travel to ultra-hazardous areas. It's not a sweet firm job in DC, but it isn't despair either.

Nice, living up to your username.

[LawIdiot86]

It doesn't matter how many jobs there are available or how many people are competing for those jobs when you are looking for a job that determines if you end up employer. It only matters how people view you (charisma/school reputation), how well you match the criteria of the job posting (GPA/skills), and how broad/low you are willing to go to accept work. Once you start setting criteria like "a litigation job" or "a NY job" or "a biglaw job," you are the one limiting your own chances of success. I know this after going to law school to do corporate biglaw work in NY/DC and failing at that, but discovering there are literally hundreds of jobs out there that will pay my rent, loans, and groceries while not making me hate myself. I just got off the phone with a screener for a non-legal professional services job paying 40-60k that requires extensive travel to ultra-hazardous areas. It's not a sweet firm job in DC, but it isn't despair either.

That makes no sense.... Everything is determined by the market and competition on the market. Why do you think it is so easy to get a job as a doctor even from a t4 medical school? There is a shortage of doctors. Not so for lawyers.

I agree doctors from T4s are getting jobs at a higher rate than lawyers from T4s, but they are still having to trade down to a market that will hire them, even if it is still in medicine. So instead of being a doctor at a teaching hospital in NYC, they might have to go to a regional hospital upstate or take a different specialty in NYC. And if all doctors jobs were as full as lawyer jobs are, they might have to take a job in another field, like teaching science. The number of law graduates I know both in person and on TLS who would rather remain unemployed than take a job as a paralegal or accounting clerk and turn down interviews if they are outside of certain markets or fields of law are the people I am criticizing. I remember a person from the year ahead of me on journal turning down a DOJ honors spot because it was in the wrong city and then spending the rest of their 3L year complaining how impossible the job market was in the city they had selected.

[romothesavior]

The number of law graduates I know both in person and on TLS who would rather remain unemployed than take a job as a paralegal or accounting clerk and turn down interviews if they are outside of certain markets or fields of law are the people I am criticizing.

Are you fucking kidding me? You don't understand why someone with a J.D. might be disinclined to take a job as a paralegal or an accounting clerk?

[LawIdiot86]

The number of law graduates I know both in person and on TLS who would rather remain unemployed than take a job as a paralegal or accounting clerk and turn down interviews if they are outside of certain markets or fields of law are the people I am criticizing.

Are you fucking kidding me? You don't understand why someone with a J.D. might be disinclined to take a job as a paralegal or an accounting clerk?

If it pays their rent and student loans and they've already applied to employers who pay better and been rejected, then no, I don't understand why someone would prefer unemployment to underemployment.

[mmribail]

So is it worse then the numbers indicate or better?

Worse or better in what way?

Are there more jobs out there than the study indicates or less is what I meant. But it looks like people already answered this question. So the state breakdowns are crap. But the actual jobs available nationwide are some what reliable ....

[romothesavior]

The number of law graduates I know both in person and on TLS who would rather remain unemployed than take a job as a paralegal or accounting clerk and turn down interviews if they are outside of certain markets or fields of law are the people I am criticizing.

Are you fucking kidding me? You don't understand why someone with a J.D. might be disinclined to take a job as a paralegal or an accounting clerk?

If it pays their rent and student loans and they've already applied to employers who pay better and been rejected, then no, I don't understand why someone would prefer unemployment to underemployment.

1) It depends on how long they've been out of school. It takes some people a year or more to get a legal job. If I didn't have a job after 6 months or something, I sure as hell wouldn't go take a paralegal job. I'd rather keep looking for my first job than throw away any viable shot at using my JD.
2) Even if I grant you that your last post is true, what in the hell does that have to do with this study, or this thread, or anything at all? Go to tell it your unemployed friends. But it is completely irrelevant to a discussion of the current shape of the legal market.

[A'nold]

While I often criticize people for being too picky, I DEFINITELY agree with Romo on this one. To say that someone is being too picky when he doesn't accept a 60k a year job in a city he doesn't like and has no other options is one thing but to say that these people are too picky b/c they won't take a paralegal job is something different entirely.

[romothesavior]

While I often criticize people for being too picky, I DEFINITELY agree with Romo on this one. To say that someone is being too picky when he doesn't accept a 60k a year job in a city he doesn't like and has no other options is one thing but to say that these people are too picky b/c they won't take a paralegal job is something different entirely.

+1, well said.