What are the options after striking out?

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:21 am

My main concern is that when I look for a job (ANY job) at the 3L stage, employers won't want to hire someone who has no experience in actually being a lawyer. I've already done a government internship before (1L). Wrote a shit-load of memos and other legal research work. But didn't do doc review or anything else.

So I struck out and now I have no idea what to do. I guess I could find another government "job" (work for free) to add to my resume. If I'm lucky, maybe a judge to work for. But what exactly could I do that will make me attractive to an employer on my 3L year?

By employer I mean any. At this point I wouldn't mind being the janitor at a firm. At least I'll get to step inside and feel like I got something out of my pathetic degree.

(Btw, t-20 law school, top 30%, complete fail).

KamaalTheAbstract
Posts: 124
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:04 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby KamaalTheAbstract » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:28 am

GermX wrote:My main concern is that when I look for a job (ANY job) at the 3L stage, employers won't want to hire someone who has no experience in actually being a lawyer. I've already done a government internship before (1L). Wrote a shit-load of memos and other legal research work. But didn't do doc review or anything else.

So I struck out and now I have no idea what to do. I guess I could find another government "job" (work for free) to add to my resume. If I'm lucky, maybe a judge to work for. But what exactly could I do that will make me attractive to an employer on my 3L year?

By employer I mean any. At this point I wouldn't mind being the janitor at a firm. At least I'll get to step inside and feel like I got something out of my pathetic degree.

(Btw, t-20 law school, top 30%, complete fail).


Are you in a big city?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:04 am

epic bump. how is it so with your numbers? straight from ud with no job exp??

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:epic bump. how is it so with your numbers? straight from ud with no job exp??


Short of ~T6, Top 1/3 isn't a lock for biglaw anywhere else, much less T20s like Wustl or Minnesota where even during boom times, biglaw placement rarely exceeded 20-25%

anongoodnurse
Posts: 61
Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 5:14 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby anongoodnurse » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:48 am

One thing you do have control over is your 2L grades. I'd really concentrate on busting your butt and changing that "top 30%" to "top 15%" -- which will be a little easier than you think, since a lot of people will be slacking off once they get their SA job or make law review (or not, on both counts). Try to develop a relationship with a prof or two. Join a secondary journal (if it's not too late) and write a note/comment -- work with a prof on it and you can kill two birds with one stone!

This will help you in two ways. First, it gives you a reasonably compelling story in the (unlikely, alas) case you get any serious 3L interviews. Second, and much more realistically, it will position you well to apply for clerkships next summer. You're probably not super-duper competitive at the federal level -- though you never know when something seemingly mundane on your resume will catch the judge's (or the judge's clerk's) eye -- but if you could apply from the top 15-20% with good recs to the state supreme courts in your state and the surrounding ones, I think you'd have a fighting chance. And bumping down to the intermediate appellate level, I think you actually would be pretty competitive.

(Also, this is kind of field-specific, but in addition to the above, you could also take a few bankruptcy-type classes, apply for bankruptcy clerkships, and pitch yourself as a bankruptcy guy.)

GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:42 pm

^ Ugh, the thing is, I've been pitching myself (when appropriate) as a Labor and Employment law kind of guy. And it got me interviews at some good firms. But after the CBs, it's rejection. And honestly, I'm almost positive it isn't my interviewing skills. The interviews all went well, standard, basic, with laughter etc... But anytime I find out who got it instead of me, its someone with higher grades. It always comes down to that.

For the life of me I don't understand why being between the top 15-30% at my law school can't get me a job. I barely got any screenings through OCI either.

City is D.C. btw. Blegh, I should have gone to Fordham.

epic bump. how is it so with your numbers? straight from ud with no job exp??


A mountain of job experience, to say the least. My summer 1L experience especially was in my opinion pretty substantial. Involved amending actual law and getting it voted on. Won a case directly as a result of my legal work. Changed policies that allowed people with disabilities etc... to be hired. The list goes on.

The problem: my grades. I have a 3.45 gpa which places me in the top 30% at my school. But that apparently isn't enough for any of these firms to even give me a chance to talk to them.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:57 pm

GermX wrote:^ Ugh, the thing is, I've been pitching myself (when appropriate) as a Labor and Employment law kind of guy. And it got me interviews at some good firms. But after the CBs, it's rejection. And honestly, I'm almost positive it isn't my interviewing skills. The interviews all went well, standard, basic, with laughter etc... But anytime I find out who got it instead of me, its someone with higher grades. It always comes down to that.

For the life of me I don't understand why being between the top 15-30% at my law school can't get me a job. I barely got any screenings through OCI either.

City is D.C. btw. Blegh, I should have gone to Fordham.

epic bump. how is it so with your numbers? straight from ud with no job exp??


A mountain of job experience, to say the least. My summer 1L experience especially was in my opinion pretty substantial. Involved amending actual law and getting it voted on. Won a case directly as a result of my legal work. Changed policies that allowed people with disabilities etc... to be hired. The list goes on.

The problem: my grades. I have a 3.45 gpa which places me in the top 30% at my school. But that apparently isn't enough for any of these firms to even give me a chance to talk to them.


From what I read on here, D.C. is a more competitive city to get a job in.

Could also just be that competition is greater for employment/labor work?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:05 pm

I have the exact same stats. I am dropping out tomorrow and going back for a second bachelors.

Geist13
Posts: 739
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Geist13 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:epic bump. how is it so with your numbers? straight from ud with no job exp??


You just don't get how rough it is out there outside of t14ish schools. I'm top 28%, law review, CALI award and I've struck out. Whether it makes sense or not, a firm would rather take a median (or even below median) student from Columbia than a top third law review student at a T25.

OP, don't give up hope. We're in a good enough position that we'll get something. Even if it's not remotely ideal, something will come around so long as you keep at it with applications. Now, where those applications should be headed is a question I haven't answered yet. Go to career services.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:18 pm

Similar boat. T20, in the range between top 20-25%, LR, nothing. I would be considering dropping out if I could get my money back for this semester, but I can't. Hell, it still might actually be worth it if I can get a computer programming degree in two years.

To the above poster who said he's getting a second bachelor's - what resources are available to see how that works?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:37 pm

GermX wrote:For the life of me I don't understand why being between the top 15-30% at my law school can't get me a job. I barely got any screenings through OCI either.

City is D.C. btw. Blegh, I should have gone to Fordham.



Can't say TLS didnt tell you...

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=115188&start=25

OnceUponAMemo
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:25 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby OnceUponAMemo » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:38 pm

Whoops, above was me, didn't mean to be anon.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:To the above poster who said he's getting a second bachelor's - what resources are available to see how that works?


I just called my local community college's academic advising department. Aside from math, I have none of the prereqs for CS or engineering, so it will likely take 3 years to get the second degree. Still better than continuing on in law school.

GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:38 pm

lol reviving that old thread was cruel. Seriously I never went into GW thinking I would be a millionare super lawyer. I just want a job that'll let me pay my bills without taking anymore money from my parents. I don't care if its 40k a year at this point.

MayomiSanchez
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby MayomiSanchez » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:43 pm

LOL, posting that old thread really was cruel...just throwing that out there. Keep networking Germ, something will come through...

GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:50 pm

So seriously, I don't get this "networking" CDO keeps talking about. I've been to the luncheons etc.. whatever, but honestly, unless you really know somebody or develop a strong relationship with someone, how exactly am I supposed to network? I've been in D.C. basically barely a little over a year...

dudders
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby dudders » Mon Oct 10, 2011 2:55 pm

I think GW's OCI this year was an entire epic fail.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:34 pm

GermX wrote:So seriously, I don't get this "networking" CDO keeps talking about. I've been to the luncheons etc.. whatever, but honestly, unless you really know somebody or develop a strong relationship with someone, how exactly am I supposed to network? I've been in D.C. basically barely a little over a year...


that's the whole idea... you need to really get to know someone, interact with them a dozen times or so and then eventually they can put in a good word for you. my friend got an offer doing this at a firm that doesn't even interview at his OCI.

User avatar
monkey85
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:07 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby monkey85 » Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:49 pm

Two points:
1. Internships during the year (on top of writing a Note/Comment, working with professors). You are in DC (as am I, since I am apparently one of your 2L GW classmates) giving you better school-year access to agencies, NGOs, and courthouses than most T14s. Keep on padding that resume.

2. AND I agree with "anongoodnurse" on the 2L grades - get those UP! Worst comes to worst you take another year of law school via an LLM and become a tax attorney (if you still want to do law).

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:33 pm

monkey85 wrote:Two points:
1. Internships during the year (on top of writing a Note/Comment, working with professors). You are in DC (as am I, since I am apparently one of your 2L GW classmates) giving you better school-year access to agencies, NGOs, and courthouses than most T14s. Keep on padding that resume.

2. AND I agree with "anongoodnurse" on the 2L grades - get those UP! Worst comes to worst you take another year of law school via an LLM and become a tax attorney (if you still want to do law).

LLM hiring is not great either. It is not a backup plan.

Dude, fuck your grades. 3L OCI is worthless. Try to get a jerb with a small firm during the school year or during the summer. Even if there is no possibility of full time offer. Get experience, meet people through this jorb (network). Put your name out there. Do informational interviews with smaller firms. This is not easy or a magic bullet. But the shit that cares about grades (fed govt., biglawl) is gone.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:47 pm

Sorry to hear about this germX. But honestly, top 30% at GW is not likely to get you biglaw ITE. Our schools are similar, and I know few people outside of the top 20-25% with a job. Once you get to top 30%, you have an uphilll climb, so this isn't too unexpected, especially in a hard-hit market like D.C. It doesn't seem like it has bounced back at all like NYC, which is why Fordham is doing a lot better than WUSTL or GW.

IMO, don't pigeonhole yourself in the Labor and Employment area. If firms are explicitly hiring for that area or it is a boutique, then go for it. Almost every attorney I have talked to has recommended not being too specific. I even had a few tell me I was being too specific by saying just "litigation." (which is ridiculous, IMO, but I think the overall point is not to be too focused on one area ITE)

Where are you from originally? Any way to look at secondary markets? Most of the big east coast markets are done hiring, but I have heard of some smaller NLJ 250 firms and secondary markets doing callbacks and making offers, even now.

Good luck.

GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:12 pm

Guess I'll do a judicial internship or something.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273265
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:20 pm

GermX wrote:Guess I'll do a judicial internship or something.

I would advise against. How is that going to help you longterm? What skill are you building or experience are you having that will be useful to your next employer? Judicial internships are good prep for clerkships, big firm litigation and DA/USAO work. But all of those presuppose you have the grades/personality to get one of those positions after. If you are still dead-set on being a lawyer and have time left, intern with a state/federal agency doing labor law. That will count for far more coming out of law school or even after then the vague, amorphous "judicial internship."

GermX
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 5:24 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby GermX » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:44 pm

That's obviously an option. I'll look into every angle. And yes, I am thinking of aiming for a clerkship if my grades improve and I nudge myself into top 15% or something. I just feel like a judicial internship will at least give me experience doing the kind of work lawyers do, while at a federal agency there's a danger of not getting the right kind of legal experience.

User avatar
Grizz
Posts: 10583
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:31 pm

Re: What are the options after striking out?

Postby Grizz » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
GermX wrote:Guess I'll do a judicial internship or something.

I would advise against. How is that going to help you longterm? What skill are you building or experience are you having that will be useful to your next employer? Judicial internships are good prep for clerkships, big firm litigation and DA/USAO work. But all of those presuppose you have the grades/personality to get one of those positions after. If you are still dead-set on being a lawyer and have time left, intern with a state/federal agency doing labor law. That will count for far more coming out of law school or even after then the vague, amorphous "judicial internship."

This. Try to intern with a state agency. Try to get a law clerk job with a small firm.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.