3Ls without a job lined up

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sperry
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3Ls without a job lined up

Postby sperry » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:34 pm

What kind of jobs are you applying for? MVP 3L here with no job lined up. Obviously the big law ship has sailed, but I don't even know what I'm supposed to be applying for. Am I supposed to just flood every 10 lawyer outfit in the country with applications? Our career services is completely worthless, so speaking with them is out. Doesn't seem like the T14 has any idea what to do with students who don't have firm jobs.

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Kronk
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Kronk » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:42 pm

sperry wrote:What kind of jobs are you applying for? MVP 3L here with no job lined up. Obviously the big law ship has sailed, but I don't even know what I'm supposed to be applying for. Am I supposed to just flood every 10 lawyer outfit in the country with applications? Our career services is completely worthless, so speaking with them is out. Doesn't seem like the T14 has any idea what to do with students who don't have firm jobs.


I am only a 2L, but if I were you I would look on http://www.pslawnet.org for government and public interest organizations that are hiring entry-level positions (there are usually a few). Depends on your interests, but obviously you could look into District Attorney offices in the regions you are looking at along with Public Defender offices, legal aid organizations, government positions with legislative counsel, etc.

If you're set on private work (which seems implied in your post), I think if you're looking to secondary markets you can still email firms and ask them if they are hiring entry-level associates (I know some Denver firms were only hiring 3Ls this year, so if you are looking at smaller markets like that you might be in luck). I don't know anything about 10-lawyer offices or anything that small unless you have a family connection or something.

boaltrising3l
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby boaltrising3l » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Even having top grades (20-25%ish) at a T10, the number of opportunities are limited.

First of all biglaw is done, so we can cross that off.
Gov Honors Programs: to me its not an efficient use of time, most programs have around 500 applicants to every position they can offer.
Public interest fellowships: unless you really got a stellar resume cross it off.

Small Firms: These places cannot project their needs one year in advance let alone a couple months in advance.

In summary I've decided to wait til after bar results to start looking, and it's really helped take a lot of the pressure off. Many attorneys advised me to just chill and look after so I've taken their advice. You can spend your entire year stressing applying to jobs where there are 500 applicants/ position and prob not find anything or you can chill enjoy yourself, and find some small firm gig after through networking.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 7:55 pm

I would not write of biglaw entirely. I am a 3L at CNN, did not summer last year, and I have already had 5 CBs with big firms and continue to get interviews. So while I agree you should pursue other options I would not totally write-off biglaw at least if you are like the poster above who is top 10% at a T-10.

boaltrising3l
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby boaltrising3l » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:01 pm

Just curious how are you continuing to get interviews? Mail?

sperry
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby sperry » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would not write of biglaw entirely. I am a 3L at CNN, did not summer last year, and I have already had 5 CBs with big firms and continue to get interviews. So while I agree you should pursue other options I would not totally write-off biglaw at least if you are like the poster above who is top 10% at a T-10.



I am not even close to top 10%. I didn't do 3L OCI, as 2L OCI went so poorly and my grades were basically the same (not great, but not absolutely terrible).

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 8:27 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Just curious how are you continuing to get interviews? Mail?


A combination of mailing, resume drops in response to postings on the schools job board and 3L oci.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:42 pm

What is the percentage of people (discounting people that pursue public interest) that get BigLaw in Top-14.

I attend a low top-14 and it seems that most of them have an offer.

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Kronk
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Kronk » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is the percentage of people (discounting people that pursue public interest) that get BigLaw in Top-14.

I attend a low top-14 and it seems that most of them have an offer.


50 percent? More in some (Columbia) but around 50 in most. And that's NLJ250, which includes a lot of "midlaw" regional firms that pay 110k-130k. The people that don't have offers probably just don't talk about it as much would be my guess.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:53 pm

Oh ok, and is it mostly the top 50% of the class (that get offers)?

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prezidentv8
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby prezidentv8 » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:54 pm

Sup.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 9:56 pm

What is the difference between getting a V50 vs. non-vault firm in NYC? Where the pay is the same?

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Oh ok, and is it mostly the top 50% of the class (that get offers)?


not necessarily...a TON of students will be bunched around the median (the cutoff for top 50%). so just making the top 50% probably won't guarantee you anything. if you browse the employment forums for this year, it seems that medianish at a lower T14 is really hit or miss, and usually comes down to interviewing skills and/or interesting life/work experience.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:01 pm

So that means that the lower median have a shot too right?

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Kronk
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Kronk » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference between getting a V50 vs. non-vault firm in NYC? Where the pay is the same?


Exit options, I would say. Also probably bigger bonuses at the V50 (in general), more high-profile work (even if it pays the same), higher-profile clients, sometimes more responsibility early on at the non-vault, amongst other things.

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Kronk
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Kronk » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So that means that the lower median have a shot too right?


Definitely. Grades are just the biggest part of a multi-factored assessment. I know lots of people who overcame lower than median grades with work experience, or interview skills plus some geographic ties.

boaltrising3l
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby boaltrising3l » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:10 pm

For Berk its around 40%. IPSecure people with advanced degrees can get jobs no matter how bad grades are. URMs (mostly African American for whatever reason not Hispanic) also receive significant bumps from firms. Work experience is also key.

Grades alone really are not a good proxy. If you have science background/URM/relevant W/E below median you are probably fine. If you are White with no work experience and not in top 30% you are pretty screwed.

FWIW grades alone are not enough, top 20% was not good enough for me. Interviewing really can't overcome not having any of the Law Review/ Diversity / W/E factors. Have had CB firms say I was the best interview but just did not have background for certain criteria.
Last edited by boaltrising3l on Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:12 pm

Kronk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference between getting a V50 vs. non-vault firm in NYC? Where the pay is the same?


Exit options, I would say. Also probably bigger bonuses at the V50 (in general), more high-profile work (even if it pays the same), higher-profile clients, sometimes more responsibility early on at the non-vault, amongst other things.


Could you elaborate on the exit options? Sorry for the basic questions. I will be clerking this summer at a V50ish this summer, and do not know a lot about vault vs. non-vault, exit options, etc.

sperry
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby sperry » Sun Oct 09, 2011 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Kronk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference between getting a V50 vs. non-vault firm in NYC? Where the pay is the same?


Exit options, I would say. Also probably bigger bonuses at the V50 (in general), more high-profile work (even if it pays the same), higher-profile clients, sometimes more responsibility early on at the non-vault, amongst other things.


Could you elaborate on the exit options? Sorry for the basic questions. I will be clerking this summer at a V50ish this summer, and do not know a lot about vault vs. non-vault, exit options, etc.



These are fine questions, but please take them to a different thread. I'd like to keep this thread on the topic of wtf are other 3Ls in my boat planning to do.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:06 pm

Hi friends.

3L here with no job lined up. I'm waiting back to hear about state clerkships, however I applied in a market that is relatively small, and considerably slower in terms of interviewing than bigger markets. I'm going to use this time now to attempt to network/make connections with some area attorneys at mid/small firms in hopes that if they find out they will have an opening around summer 2012, I'll be in the back of their mind.

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:21 pm

Could you place stats when you post. Is it possible to lateral from medium/small/or government to big firm in several years?

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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Oct 09, 2011 11:38 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:
In summary I've decided to wait til after bar results to start looking, and it's really helped take a lot of the pressure off. Many attorneys advised me to just chill and look after so I've taken their advice. You can spend your entire year stressing applying to jobs where there are 500 applicants/ position and prob not find anything or you can chill enjoy yourself, and find some small firm gig after through networking.



TITCR

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Kronk
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby Kronk » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Kronk wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What is the difference between getting a V50 vs. non-vault firm in NYC? Where the pay is the same?


Exit options, I would say. Also probably bigger bonuses at the V50 (in general), more high-profile work (even if it pays the same), higher-profile clients, sometimes more responsibility early on at the non-vault, amongst other things.


Could you elaborate on the exit options? Sorry for the basic questions. I will be clerking this summer at a V50ish this summer, and do not know a lot about vault vs. non-vault, exit options, etc.


I don't know why this is an anonymous post, but if you want to PM I can talk about it although I am a 2L as well. I just feel I have researched that kind of thing a bit.

MoonshineJoe
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby MoonshineJoe » Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:55 pm

I am in this position myself and it sucks. Career services is useless, their suggestions are typically "network" and apply to state court clerkships.

I am trying to be expansive in my job search. Currently, I am applying to federal government positions, consulting (I worked as a consultant before law school), Presidential Management Fellows, and policy analyst positions. I am meeting with all the lawyers at my internship to build up my contacts. I am also looking at positions on Capitol Hill, though most of those don't require a law degree.

It is a not a good idea to sit back and take the bar before focusing on finding a job. There are lots of companies which hire later in the cycle than big law. Additionally, many smaller companies or firms only hire to meet a particular need. These types of positions spring up erratically and you will miss out entirely if you are not looking.

FWIW I am median at GULC.

HalfEmptyGlass
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Re: 3Ls without a job lined up

Postby HalfEmptyGlass » Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:11 pm

Same boat, same boat. Top 25% at MVP. Struck out at 2L OCI and did not summer at a firm (I finished my first year at the median and had no other relevant skills or traits to compensate). My grades have obviously been strong since then and I thought that, even though 1L grades are king, my strong upward trend and (quite decent) overall class standing would count for something. Apparently not.

Firms - did not get any interviews with the small handful of firms at 3L OCI, mailed over 100 on the east coast (where my fiance is and where we *thought* we were going to be establishing ourselves) and in the midwest (where I have ties). Nothing.

Clerkships/Gov't - applied to ~120 federal judges, mostly in flyover states (because I thought I would have a "realistic" shot there). Nothing. Plus at least 50 or so state judges on state high and intermediate courts. Nothing. Not really interested in government, but have been applying anyway when I see an opening. Nothing.

I'm glad others are expressing the "relax and wait till after the bar" sentiment because I'm about to throw in the towel as well - out of sheer frustration/exhaustion. Sometimes I'm just in complete disbelief. Even though I know these are unprecedented economic times, etc., etc., it still feels bizarre after years of doing things I thought were insulating me from the very situation I now face.

What the **** are we going to do?




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