Future SA position on resume now?

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Anonymous User
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Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:18 pm

I have accepted an offer for next summer. But I want a part-time law clerk job until then. Small firms and solos around here routinely hire law students for a few bucks an hour. For the purpose of securing such a job, is it wise to include next year's summer associate position on the resume? Something like "Big, Bigger & Best, Another City, Summer Associate, Summer 2012." First, does that violate resume/job search ethics? Second, would it hurt my chances of getting a job right now? Third, where would I even put that on the resume? Thanks.

Last spring after our journal elections, I included my new editor position for this school year on my resume: "xyz law journal, abc editor 2011-12." Never had an issue (discussed my journal activities with several interviewers), though I realize it's not quite the same. Thanks.

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California Babe
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby California Babe » Wed Sep 14, 2011 2:27 pm

I believe this is fairly common practice given the number of things that 2Ls will be applying for before their 2L summer starts. You should list it under experience as you normally would, but rather than putting the time you worked there, write something like, "Expected start date June 2012" to indicate you have not started working there yet.

PirateCap'n
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby PirateCap'n » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:29 pm

California Babe wrote:I believe this is fairly common practice given the number of things that 2Ls will be applying for before their 2L summer starts. You should list it under experience as you normally would, but rather than putting the time you worked there, write something like, "Expected start date June 2012" to indicate you have not started working there yet.


On a similar note, my 2L SA firm has asked for an updated resume. I will be splitting the resume with this firm and another firm, and they both know about it. I have already listed both firms on my resume with the "Beginning in X" part. Since the firm has asked for an updated resume, should I leave both of these firms on my resume when I send it in? I don't want it to offend the first firm that I already have the second firm on there too (and it shouldn't since they know about it), but I want to have all the relevant info on my resume.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:53 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:
California Babe wrote:I believe this is fairly common practice given the number of things that 2Ls will be applying for before their 2L summer starts. You should list it under experience as you normally would, but rather than putting the time you worked there, write something like, "Expected start date June 2012" to indicate you have not started working there yet.


On a similar note, my 2L SA firm has asked for an updated resume. I will be splitting the resume with this firm and another firm, and they both know about it. I have already listed both firms on my resume with the "Beginning in X" part. Since the firm has asked for an updated resume, should I leave both of these firms on my resume when I send it in? I don't want it to offend the first firm that I already have the second firm on there too (and it shouldn't since they know about it), but I want to have all the relevant info on my resume.


I've been told by HR people in the past to leave off the future job when submitting an updated resume to the future job. Comes off a bit pretentious and can throw a wrench in their system if they flag you as having worked for them before because they see their name on your resume.

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frank galvin
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby frank galvin » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:30 am

I think it is best to leave it off and discuss it in the interview. It seems pretentious and it is something I did as a 1L. Now it feels amateurish.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:42 am

Was told, and I believe correctly so, that you shouldn't put on a job experience that you haven't actually started yet. The work-experience section of your resume is supposed to reflect just that: experience. And that inherently means something you have actually done, or at least begun.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby PirateCap'n » Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:48 am

Sounds reasonable enough. Thanks for the tips.

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moandersen
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby moandersen » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:26 am

Good thing you asked. I was going to throw my future summer employment on there. I guess the only updated part for me will be my rank.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby flightcontrol » Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:59 pm

You can and should put a future SA on your resume. Rules have purposes. The reason you generally do not put future "experiences" on a resume is that they have little informational value; you haven't actually done anything yet, and you may not even end up in the job. SA hiring is different. No one actually cares what you do during your summer; the value is signalling that you got a seal of appoval from a well-regarded place, and to provide some talking points in an interview ("oh, do you know partner x?"). Plus, you are almost certainly going to go. In this instance, it would be foolish not to include it on your resume.

This advice is consistent with what I have heard from clerks and biglaw recruiters in the hiring process for both. Getting a SA is one of the most important signals in law school. Why would you want a potential employer to even wonder whether you got one?

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby dixon02 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:02 pm

flightcontrol wrote:You can and should put a future SA on your resume. Rules have purposes. The reason you generally do not put future "experiences" on a resume is that they have little informational value; you haven't actually done anything yet, and you may not even end up in the job. SA hiring is different. No one actually cares what you do during your summer; the value is signalling that you got a seal of appoval from a well-regarded place, and to provide some talking points in an interview ("oh, do you know partner x?"). Plus, you are almost certainly going to go. In this instance, it would be foolish not to include it on your resume.

This advice is consistent with what I have heard from clerks and biglaw recruiters in the hiring process for both. Getting a SA is one of the most important signals in law school. Why would you want a potential employer to even wonder whether you got one?


This seems right, but really this is a question that you should take to your CSO. It being their job and all.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby moandersen » Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:25 pm

flightcontrol wrote:You can and should put a future SA on your resume. Rules have purposes. The reason you generally do not put future "experiences" on a resume is that they have little informational value; you haven't actually done anything yet, and you may not even end up in the job. SA hiring is different. No one actually cares what you do during your summer; the value is signalling that you got a seal of appoval from a well-regarded place, and to provide some talking points in an interview ("oh, do you know partner x?"). Plus, you are almost certainly going to go. In this instance, it would be foolish not to include it on your resume.

This advice is consistent with what I have heard from clerks and biglaw recruiters in the hiring process for both. Getting a SA is one of the most important signals in law school. Why would you want a potential employer to even wonder whether you got one?


I probably should have specified. My 2L summer employer asked for an updated resume, so I didnt include their firm under my 'experience' section. However, when I sent my resume out for other purpose, I definitely included my 2L SA.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby PirateCap'n » Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:01 pm

moandersen wrote:
flightcontrol wrote:You can and should put a future SA on your resume. Rules have purposes. The reason you generally do not put future "experiences" on a resume is that they have little informational value; you haven't actually done anything yet, and you may not even end up in the job. SA hiring is different. No one actually cares what you do during your summer; the value is signalling that you got a seal of appoval from a well-regarded place, and to provide some talking points in an interview ("oh, do you know partner x?"). Plus, you are almost certainly going to go. In this instance, it would be foolish not to include it on your resume.

This advice is consistent with what I have heard from clerks and biglaw recruiters in the hiring process for both. Getting a SA is one of the most important signals in law school. Why would you want a potential employer to even wonder whether you got one?


I probably should have specified. My 2L summer employer asked for an updated resume, so I didnt include their firm under my 'experience' section. However, when I sent my resume out for other purpose, I definitely included my 2L SA.


Yeah. Same here.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:47 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:
moandersen wrote:
flightcontrol wrote:You can and should put a future SA on your resume. Rules have purposes. The reason you generally do not put future "experiences" on a resume is that they have little informational value; you haven't actually done anything yet, and you may not even end up in the job. SA hiring is different. No one actually cares what you do during your summer; the value is signalling that you got a seal of appoval from a well-regarded place, and to provide some talking points in an interview ("oh, do you know partner x?"). Plus, you are almost certainly going to go. In this instance, it would be foolish not to include it on your resume.

This advice is consistent with what I have heard from clerks and biglaw recruiters in the hiring process for both. Getting a SA is one of the most important signals in law school. Why would you want a potential employer to even wonder whether you got one?


I probably should have specified. My 2L summer employer asked for an updated resume, so I didnt include their firm under my 'experience' section. However, when I sent my resume out for other purpose, I definitely included my 2L SA.


Yeah. Same here.


Ditto

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby drdolittle » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:01 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Was told, and I believe correctly so, that you shouldn't put on a job experience that you haven't actually started yet. The work-experience section of your resume is supposed to reflect just that: experience. And that inherently means something you have actually done, or at least begun.

This is emphatically wrong, at least with respect to clerkship applications. Applicants routinely include their SA job on applications even before the job begins (likewise with future clerkships already accepted). When this info was absent, we wondered what the applicant was doing -- and often drew an adverse inference.

But what about updated resume sent to future summer employer, as mentioned above? If future experience/position was not included on resume sent to summer employer, would this merit a revision?

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:14 pm

drdolittle wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Was told, and I believe correctly so, that you shouldn't put on a job experience that you haven't actually started yet. The work-experience section of your resume is supposed to reflect just that: experience. And that inherently means something you have actually done, or at least begun.

This is emphatically wrong, at least with respect to clerkship applications. Applicants routinely include their SA job on applications even before the job begins (likewise with future clerkships already accepted). When this info was absent, we wondered what the applicant was doing -- and often drew an adverse inference.

But what about updated resume sent to future summer employer, as mentioned above? If future experience/position was not included on resume sent to summer employer, would this merit a revision?


I don't know how to explain this more simply. If you accept a job from Law A and Law A asks for an updated resume, do not list Law A as a job on the resume you send to Law A. If you apply to Judge X, Law Y, or Job Z, list Law A on the resume, even if you have not started yet.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:04 am

sort of a related thread hijack: is it appropriate to list your summer sa on linkedin or facebook under employers after you've started? I don't wanna look like a douche, but I like keeping my work experience updated for networking purposes

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:15 pm

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
LawIdiot86 wrote:
drdolittle wrote:
G. T. L. Rev. wrote:This is emphatically wrong, at least with respect to clerkship applications. Applicants routinely include their SA job on applications even before the job begins (likewise with future clerkships already accepted). When this info was absent, we wondered what the applicant was doing -- and often drew an adverse inference.

But what about updated resume sent to future summer employer, as mentioned above? If future experience/position was not included on resume sent to summer employer, would this merit a revision?


I don't know how to explain this more simply. If you accept a job from Law A and Law A asks for an updated resume, do not list Law A as a job on the resume you send to Law A. If you apply to Judge X, Law Y, or Job Z, list Law A on the resume, even if you have not started yet.

Yeah, seems right to me.

uh oh. I put it on resume for my SA employer. Is it that bad?

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:uh oh. I put it on resume for my SA employer. Is it that bad?

Eh. OP here, did the same. Frankly I don't believe anyone gives a shit. I don't even get why they should. If it's OK for everyone else, it's OK for them.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby LawIdiot86 » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:uh oh. I put it on resume for my SA employer. Is it that bad?

Eh. OP here, did the same. Frankly I don't believe anyone gives a shit. I don't even get why they should. If it's OK for everyone else, it's OK for them.


I had a non-firm employer who I stupidly did this for return the resume with a not to remove it before they could process my hiring. Said it flag in HR and look bad. But, I still was hired, so I guess it didn't hurt that much.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:34 am

As a voice of caution: Consider the situation you'll face if you put this on your resume, but for some reason you don't end up doing it. Will you correct it?

Instead of putting this on your resume, why not just include it in your cover letter? Or, mention it in the interview somehow. If you do put it, at least indicate that your start date is "expected."

To people above saying that it is customary to put expected summer employment on clerkship resumes -- did the applicant just put their dates as "Expected May 20XX - Aug 20XX?" Also, can people explain why a reviewer of a clerkship app would rather see it on a resume than in the cover letter?

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby drdolittle » Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:As a voice of caution: Consider the situation you'll face if you put this on your resume, but for some reason you don't end up doing it. Will you correct it?

Instead of putting this on your resume, why not just include it in your cover letter? Or, mention it in the interview somehow. If you do put it, at least indicate that your start date is "expected."

To people above saying that it is customary to put expected summer employment on clerkship resumes -- did the applicant just put their dates as "Expected May 20XX - Aug 20XX?" Also, can people explain why a reviewer of a clerkship app would rather see it on a resume than in the cover letter?

Kind of what I was thinking too. Despite LawIdiot's clarity above, I think an argument could be made to leave future experience off the resume altogether and include it in cover letters only. Though I think what LawIdiot and G. T. L. Rev. are saying specifically re: clerkship apps makes sense too. And since they have direct experience w/ preparing/reviewing such apps, doing what they suggest is probably the way to go.

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20160810
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby 20160810 » Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:58 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Was told, and I believe correctly so, that you shouldn't put on a job experience that you haven't actually started yet. The work-experience section of your resume is supposed to reflect just that: experience. And that inherently means something you have actually done, or at least begun.

This is emphatically wrong, at least with respect to clerkship applications. Applicants routinely include their SA job on applications even before the job begins (likewise with future clerkships already accepted). When this info was absent, we wondered what the applicant was doing -- and often drew an adverse inference.

This is probably the best advice ITT.

OP, you've accepted the position, there's nothing wrong with listing it on your resume along with the dates you'll be working.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Mar 28, 2012 4:46 pm

Thoughts on adding future SA to linkedin now? I've been networking and adding a lot of people lately, and I think the mention helps my highlight my potential professional value to them.

I've seen a couple of profiles where 3Ls added something like "after graduation I will be an in the corporate group associate at XYZ" or "I will be clerking at XYZ" etc. to their summary.

Thoughts?

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20160810
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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby 20160810 » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thoughts on adding future SA to linkedin now? I've been networking and adding a lot of people lately, and I think the mention helps my highlight my potential professional value to them.

I've seen a couple of profiles where 3Ls added something like "after graduation I will be an in the corporate group associate at XYZ" or "I will be clerking at XYZ" etc. to their summary.

Thoughts?

I mean it probably wouldn't kill you, but the people in your future office might notice it and think it's a little preemptive since most of them won't know you yet. Generally speaking, you don't want to be the guy who agonizes over what goes into his LinkedIn profile. In fact, my personal belief is that LinkedIn is a waste of time, but everyone knows someone who knows someone who got some sweet job through that site, so I've given up persuading people on that point.

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Re: Future SA position on resume now?

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:36 am

NM.




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