V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

How early can I apply to lateral and not just have my application trashed?

I'm a T6 2015 grad (decent grades: top 20% at least) at a well regarded firm

Want a change but recognize it is maybe misguided

What kind of "change" are you looking for?

If a small-town where you're from, or different type of law altogether, go for it whenever you like.

If another big firm, at least 2 years is the bare minimum, but even then there should be a "reason".

You're not going to move from Skadden to Simpson without a good reason why. They'll just assume you can't hack it there, so probably won't hack it here

Thanks. At a firm with a very strong culture. Love the work, less fond of the atmosphere. Guess I need to suck it up for another couple of years before I can try to move.

I would be surprised if anyone's "very strong culture" is so distinct as to set them truly apart, but feel free to PM me

[Anonymous User]

Top 10-12% at a T25. Want Bay Area /California. Very strong ties to SF, non K-JD (Retail Manager for 2 years), focusing on Corporate Finance. Do I have a chance?

[itbdvorm]

Top 10-12% at a T25. Want Bay Area /California. Very strong ties to SF, non K-JD (Retail Manager for 2 years), focusing on Corporate Finance. Do I have a chance?

Sure.

[Anonymous User]

I have an early interview at a firm and am meeting with a partner. I was wondering what level of research you think is appropriate for the given partner and what general advice you have for interviews. Of course I will read NALP, Chambers, and speak to summers at the firm before I speak with the partner. I will be familiar with "why law" "why this firm" and "what area of the firm" sort of questions.

I thought it would be appropriate to be honest about my knowledge of the firm and general interest and not to do too much research or oversell myself. In that respect, do you recommend preparing a "final" question? I ask because my school had a firm visit and we got a pretty insufferable rant about the importance of the "final question." I was wondering if you could shed some light on that. I fear that anything prepared may detract from the natural progression of the interview and our conversation.

Thanks a ton.

[Anonymous User]

T20 top regional school with a median GPA (3.3). Through networking I've met a few people who seemed to like me and have offered to put me in touch with friends who are partners at big firms/give them my resume/recommend me. However, some of these firms would definitely be reaches for me given my GPA (ex. Gibson, OMM). These people know my grades when they offer to recommend me but still think I'd be a good fit. Looking at the historical data my school provides, I'm not far off on the ranges of GPAs that have received CBs (ex. 3.4-3., but I'm pretty far off on the average GPAs that received CBs (ex. 3.6). It's great that these people are trying to help me out, but I'm afraid I'm going to get into a screener/interview and the person interviewing me is going to scoff at my grades. I guess I'm wondering how to deal with situations where I was personally recommended but I don't necessarily have the grades for that firm? I do have great work experience (3 years fed govt) and great writing credentials (top grade in writing class), can that make up for the grades?

Thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Our school (T20) has a program where students who excelled in their legal writing class are picked by their professor to be writing advisors their 2L year. Writing advisors work with incoming 1L's in their legal writing class by editing, making comments, helping with citations, and generally try to guide 1L's on the legal memos/motions (ex. motion for summary judgment) they are writing for their legal writing class. Would this type of position be seen as favorable to interviewers?

Obviously this type of work isn't on par with Law Review, but if you didn't get on Law Review would this type of writing/editing position make up for that a little bit?

Thank you for answering questions.

[itbdvorm]

I have an early interview at a firm and am meeting with a partner. I was wondering what level of research you think is appropriate for the given partner and what general advice you have for interviews. Of course I will read NALP, Chambers, and speak to summers at the firm before I speak with the partner. I will be familiar with "why law" "why this firm" and "what area of the firm" sort of questions.

I thought it would be appropriate to be honest about my knowledge of the firm and general interest and not to do too much research or oversell myself. In that respect, do you recommend preparing a "final" question? I ask because my school had a firm visit and we got a pretty insufferable rant about the importance of the "final question." I was wondering if you could shed some light on that. I fear that anything prepared may detract from the natural progression of the interview and our conversation.

Thanks a ton.

No reason not to have something in the back pocket - you never know how the conversation will progress. Lots of people in this business are insufferable but everyone likes talking about themselves. Be prepared with questions about the interviewer's history, deals, education, etc. - people like friendly questions that demonstrate their understanding of a topic/specialty/subset while acknowledging the interviewer's superior skillset. I.e., "I noticed in my research that you were one of the first practioners of Obese Puppy Law in the Northeast. How did you decide to specialize in this area as opposed to other areas? Was it difficult breaking into the notoriously exclusive Canine Law Society with a different practice focus?" etc.

[itbdvorm]

T20 top regional school with a median GPA (3.3). Through networking I've met a few people who seemed to like me and have offered to put me in touch with friends who are partners at big firms/give them my resume/recommend me. However, some of these firms would definitely be reaches for me given my GPA (ex. Gibson, OMM). These people know my grades when they offer to recommend me but still think I'd be a good fit. Looking at the historical data my school provides, I'm not far off on the ranges of GPAs that have received CBs (ex. 3.4-3., but I'm pretty far off on the average GPAs that received CBs (ex. 3.6). It's great that these people are trying to help me out, but I'm afraid I'm going to get into a screener/interview and the person interviewing me is going to scoff at my grades. I guess I'm wondering how to deal with situations where I was personally recommended but I don't necessarily have the grades for that firm? I do have great work experience (3 years fed govt) and great writing credentials (top grade in writing class), can that make up for the grades?

Thanks!

"Maybe"

every firm is different, every "great work experience" is differently valued, etc. Personal connections are always helpful. People are busy and don't like wasting time (theirs or yours). Assume you've got a shot, and go do your best. Worst case scenario you've gotten some good practice.

[itbdvorm]

Our school (T20) has a program where students who excelled in their legal writing class are picked by their professor to be writing advisors their 2L year. Writing advisors work with incoming 1L's in their legal writing class by editing, making comments, helping with citations, and generally try to guide 1L's on the legal memos/motions (ex. motion for summary judgment) they are writing for their legal writing class. Would this type of position be seen as favorable to interviewers?

Obviously this type of work isn't on par with Law Review, but if you didn't get on Law Review would this type of writing/editing position make up for that a little bit?

Thank you for answering questions.

Sounds like a nice plus. Good writers are valuable.

[Anonymous User]

How to ask for recommendations/ a job from associates and partners who were partners at other larger firms? My firm (2L SA) is not hiring entry level, but a lot of them who I did work with are ex-biglaw. Is it possible to approach them for a biglaw job? Or ask them whether they know anyone who might be hiring me? They loved my work as far as I can tell.

[Anonymous User]

When associates or partners mentioned to you "your stuff has been helpful, thank you very much", is that me really being helpful or nah?

[itbdvorm]

How to ask for recommendations/ a job from associates and partners who were partners at other larger firms? My firm (2L SA) is not hiring entry level, but a lot of them who I did work with are ex-biglaw. Is it possible to approach them for a biglaw job? Or ask them whether they know anyone who might be hiring me? They loved my work as far as I can tell.

Definitely possible. Ask someone you know / like a lot to coffee and ask for feedback / thoughts on next steps

[itbdvorm]

When associates or partners mentioned to you "your stuff has been helpful, thank you very much", is that me really being helpful or nah?

If there are follow-ups, or delivered in person and you can sense real praise, probably helpful

If it's a one-line response via email to a 10 page memo, eh

[PeanutsNJam]

How much effort do you recommend we put into cover letters? Is a very generic one without any typos or errors sufficient? It is worth trying to "stand out" in a cover letter by doing a lot of research into a firm, etc.?

[itbdvorm]

How much effort do you recommend we put into cover letters? Is a very generic one without any typos or errors sufficient? It is worth trying to "stand out" in a cover letter by doing a lot of research into a firm, etc.?

Not really.

If you truly have a compelling reason - one that jumps from you, not from research, from your total passion for X that person does and why you would click so much there - then, maybe.

But largely wasted effort unless you are trying to truly differentiate yourself (i.e., I know you never hire people from my school, but...)

[4LTsPointingNorth]

What're your thoughts on firms that offer pre-OCI interviews and offers? What are the pros/cons about it from a firm's perspective? Curious why many but not most firms do this

[itbdvorm]

What're your thoughts on firms that offer pre-OCI interviews and offers? What are the pros/cons about it from a firm's perspective? Curious why many but not most firms do this

Limited number of people you can meet on campus
Limited number of callbacks you can offer
Limited amount of attorney time available in late Aug / early Sept

If we can get good people in early, that's a plus

[itbdvorm]

In response to a PM (thought could be useful for others):

Yes, I think Brexit will seriously affect the Magic Circle firms, at least in the near-term (and possibly permanently). With so much of their revenues denominated in pounds, this will really put a hurt on the overseas/US expansion plans. If you're a UK firm trying to make inroads into NYC (as all of them except Slaughters are trying to do), your ability to invest in dollars with a seriously weakened pound is going to be drastically limited. So either you're going to cut back on US investment (leaving the people here out to dry) or stay the course (hurting your profitability and making it more likely that some top folks in the UK pursue other opportunities).

Great opportunity for the US firms with serious UK presences (Latham, Skadden, Cleary, etc.) to poach some of the top talent from the Magic Circle.

[Anonymous User]

Is a federal district court internship during a semester worth it in my situation? I'm a 3L at t20.

-I had one judicial internship already but in a far less prestigious chamber.

-I might not end up with litigation, although right now I prefer lit to transactional stuff, but that's just because I haven't been staffed on any deal;

-The tradeoff here is just less classes I might be able to take for 3L year, which sucks because I want to bring my grades up during the last school year. I want higher grades for higher honors, not for dire employment needs. If I take the externship, the best I can do is magna and more likely to be cum laude; if i don't, I might have a chance at summa. Setting aside the issue of my unhealthy grade obssession, is the fed INTERNSHIP worths going into now?

[itbdvorm]

Is a federal district court internship during a semester worth it in my situation? I'm a 3L at t20.

-I had one judicial internship already but in a far less prestigious chamber.

-I might not end up with litigation, although right now I prefer lit to transactional stuff, but that's just because I haven't been staffed on any deal;

-The tradeoff here is just less classes I might be able to take for 3L year, which sucks because I want to bring my grades up during the last school year. I want higher grades for higher honors, not for dire employment needs. If I take the externship, the best I can do is magna and more likely to be cum laude; if i don't, I might have a chance at summa. Setting aside the issue of my unhealthy grade obssession, is the fed INTERNSHIP worths going into now?

What does "worth it" mean? Only you know what you value. Don't think it matters a whit from a firm's perspective or post-graduate employment generally.

[Anonymous User]

Is a federal district court internship during a semester worth it in my situation? I'm a 3L at t20.

-I had one judicial internship already but in a far less prestigious chamber.

-I might not end up with litigation, although right now I prefer lit to transactional stuff, but that's just because I haven't been staffed on any deal;

-The tradeoff here is just less classes I might be able to take for 3L year, which sucks because I want to bring my grades up during the last school year. I want higher grades for higher honors, not for dire employment needs. If I take the externship, the best I can do is magna and more likely to be cum laude; if i don't, I might have a chance at summa. Setting aside the issue of my unhealthy grade obssession, is the fed INTERNSHIP worths going into now?

What does "worth it" mean? Only you know what you value. Don't think it matters a whit from a firm's perspective or post-graduate employment generally.

Thank you for the response. "Worth it", as in the experience with a federal judge and possible improvements on my R&W- this matters more because I don't think my credentials now can get me a post-grad fed clerkship. But I also want higher grades printed on my resume, the worth of that matters to my pride, and possible post-grad employment?

Or let me rephrase my question: for my career as a lawyer in a firm, which one worths more generally, a higher honor or a district court internship?

[yay]

What are some of the best questions an interviewee asked during an interview?

[itbdvorm]

Is a federal district court internship during a semester worth it in my situation? I'm a 3L at t20.

-I had one judicial internship already but in a far less prestigious chamber.

-I might not end up with litigation, although right now I prefer lit to transactional stuff, but that's just because I haven't been staffed on any deal;

-The tradeoff here is just less classes I might be able to take for 3L year, which sucks because I want to bring my grades up during the last school year. I want higher grades for higher honors, not for dire employment needs. If I take the externship, the best I can do is magna and more likely to be cum laude; if i don't, I might have a chance at summa. Setting aside the issue of my unhealthy grade obssession, is the fed INTERNSHIP worths going into now?

What does "worth it" mean? Only you know what you value. Don't think it matters a whit from a firm's perspective or post-graduate employment generally.

Thank you for the response. "Worth it", as in the experience with a federal judge and possible improvements on my R&W- this matters more because I don't think my credentials now can get me a post-grad fed clerkship. But I also want higher grades printed on my resume, the worth of that matters to my pride, and possible post-grad employment?

Or let me rephrase my question: for my career as a lawyer in a firm, which one worths more generally, a higher honor or a district court internship?

Difference between magna and summa could mean something, but won't mean a ton. For your resume, higher honors definitely will mean more; district court internship is whatever.

For YOU, internship could be meaningful, though I wouldn't really know. If you really want to do it, do it.

[itbdvorm]

What are some of the best questions an interviewee asked during an interview?

Questions that demonstrated a knowledge about our firm and our system. Some fairly unusual aspects about our firm, culture, etc. "I noticed from my research that X is important to you, can you tell me about why that is or how it influences your day to day?"

Show me how intellectually curious and capable you are by reading up about us and asking an insightful question.

[Anonymous User]

Asked elsewhere, want to see your opinion. Rising 2L (Top 25% at a T1 & LR) massmailing pre-OCI. Was told by a firm that my school had told them not to interview candidates from my school prior to OCI. Soft ding or real request?