V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

What's your sense of how practice group decisions are made for incoming associates? Obviously raw numbers are decided by business outlook, but if a group is oversubscribed, what determines who gets into the group?

Hard to say for sure since it doesn't quite work that way for us. Summer associate performance / fit is usually the way. Afterwards it's need and practice group desire

[itbdvorm]

My school's career office is saying that "behavioral interviewing" is on the rise. For example, interviews are supposedly becoming more full of questions like "Tell me about a time when you did X/showed Y/Z happened and how did you respond?"

To you think that's true? Have your interviews changed at all with time?

Somewhat true. I think people have styles / preferences that don't change a ton

[itbdvorm]

I KNOW you will refuse to answer this question. So, instead of "answering" it, can I ask that you "give the least bullshit numerical answer?" You can trust that I will use the "least bullshit numerical answer" only as a guide. But. Here it goes: 3 years serious work experience. Large, well-known firm in a prestigious industry. Accolades. How much GPA does that "buy" me that I can add to my actual GPA to reach a firm's internal, unstated GPA cutoff.

Yes, different for every firm. So, let's apply this ONLY to firms that would at least consider to hire in my actual GPA range, even if they rarley do so. I already know which firms meet that definition from another source.

this question seems a bit nonsensical but will try:

if you are below our cut, and we have sufficient candidates we like above our cut, you probably have a close to zero chance. if you are awesome and can wow me there's a chance.

otherwise, the only things i have to judge you on - really - are grades and the person you present to me in 20 minutes.

how can you prove to me that your awesome accolades are independently achieved? if you are a rhodes scholar, for example, that's an achievement where i understand the process for how someone obtains it and it's independent verification of awesomeness. but how do i know what your job was, really? vice president at goldman could mean you're an investment banking star, could mean you're back-office schlub, could mean your daddy's a big client.

20 minutes with you can sometimes indicate you've got more brainpower working than your grades suggest. and sometimes it can do the opposite.

[Anonymous User]

I KNOW you will refuse to answer this question. So, instead of "answering" it, can I ask that you "give the least bullshit numerical answer?" You can trust that I will use the "least bullshit numerical answer" only as a guide. But. Here it goes: 3 years serious work experience. Large, well-known firm in a prestigious industry. Accolades. How much GPA does that "buy" me that I can add to my actual GPA to reach a firm's internal, unstated GPA cutoff.

Yes, different for every firm. So, let's apply this ONLY to firms that would at least consider to hire in my actual GPA range, even if they rarley do so. I already know which firms meet that definition from another source.

this question seems a bit nonsensical but will try:

if you are below our cut, and we have sufficient candidates we like above our cut, you probably have a close to zero chance. if you are awesome and can wow me there's a chance.

otherwise, the only things i have to judge you on - really - are grades and the person you present to me in 20 minutes.

how can you prove to me that your awesome accolades are independently achieved? if you are a rhodes scholar, for example, that's an achievement where i understand the process for how someone obtains it and it's independent verification of awesomeness. but how do i know what your job was, really? vice president at goldman could mean you're an investment banking star, could mean you're back-office schlub, could mean your daddy's a big client.

20 minutes with you can sometimes indicate you've got more brainpower working than your grades suggest. and sometimes it can do the opposite.

So, two questions: a) let's say you think I have more brainpower than my grades suggest. Grades still matter, right? You'd have to go to bat for me if my grades are below the cut, and why would you do that? b) What if, because of the grades, you don't get the interview in the first place? That's why I was asking whether professional experience could help me get the interview.

[Anonymous User]

I need to know the best way to handle this. When OCI rolls around I will still be SAing at a prestigious (Big Law-ish) boutique because they extended my SA for a few extra weeks. I will likely not know my offer status. So, on the one hand they obviously like my enough to ask me to keep working. I am hopeful that this plays favorably for me. My 2L grades were good and I go to a T10. If you were the recruiter and our interview went well can you project a likely outcome? Thanks, SA 14.

[roranoa]

From among those you actually gave an offer, who had the most odd or shady background (regarding WE or age or college majors). Or did everyone you gave an offer pretty much fell into a stereotyped criteria.

Lots of variety. The weirder your background the more you might need to wow me (with personality, grades or both). But definitely doable

Can you give us an example of a "weird" background? (b/c, c'mon, that's kinda subjective)

See Potter Stewart

I see. But can you still give me an example (a real life example)??

[handformula]

What was some of your favorite "Why law school?" "Why law?" answers?

[manofjustice]

Who goes through the stack of OCI resumes to do the first cull? Lawyer committee or an office's director of recruitment? Who has more pull to get the resume through the first cull? Any given associate or an office's director of recruitment?

[stuguniv]

A few pages back you mentioned that you've had some business/legal hybrid exit options. Any chance that you could expand on what types of exit options might exist for someone who wanted to switch to a more business oriented role after doing transactional work in BigLaw for a few years?

Additionally, any thoughts on someone still in law school choosing between consulting (BCG, Mck., etc.) and BigLaw corporate work if they were somewhat undecided about whether they wanted to end up in a legal or business role long term?

[JO 14]

I am somewhat in the same position as an above poster who is going to OCI while SAing at a firm. If you were the recruiter would you necessarily wait until I was offered before moving me to the callback level (and why)? Also, my reason for attending OCI is not so much being worried about being no-offered as it is about the $20K annual increase I would earn with your firm over my SA firm. When asked about why I would rather be at your firm, do I mention the 20K difference (or just leave it at how terrific your firm is)?

[Anonymous User]

How many hours do you expect first year associates to bill annually? How does that change if they are lookign to get onto the partner track? Also, whats the process like for people who, after four years, lateral out? Do most of them end up working for other firms or do a lot of them work inhouse?

A bit of a range for first year associates. The ones who are serious about getting better/learning/advancing, etc., probably bill in the 2100-2500 range. Not necessarily a huge change for those looking to make partner as talent and aptitude is more of a determinative factor than effort

Most corporate laterals seem to go in-house. Some go to smaller firms. Replace in-house with government/not-for-profit and probably true for litigation as well.

2500 hrs per year? Working 5 days a week, including all holidays, taking no vacation, and assuming 100% of your time is billable (i.e. no lunch breaks or bathroom breaks), that’s 9.6 hours a day!

[jd20132013]

5 days a week?

[Anonymous User]

How many hours do you expect first year associates to bill annually? How does that change if they are lookign to get onto the partner track? Also, whats the process like for people who, after four years, lateral out? Do most of them end up working for other firms or do a lot of them work inhouse?

A bit of a range for first year associates. The ones who are serious about getting better/learning/advancing, etc., probably bill in the 2100-2500 range. Not necessarily a huge change for those looking to make partner as talent and aptitude is more of a determinative factor than effort

Most corporate laterals seem to go in-house. Some go to smaller firms. Replace in-house with government/not-for-profit and probably true for litigation as well.

2500 hrs per year? Working 5 days a week, including all holidays, taking no vacation, and assuming 100% of your time is billable (i.e. no lunch breaks or bathroom breaks), that’s 9.6 hours a day!

that's because you probably work 3000 hours and only 2500 is billable.

[itbdvorm]

I KNOW you will refuse to answer this question. So, instead of "answering" it, can I ask that you "give the least bullshit numerical answer?" You can trust that I will use the "least bullshit numerical answer" only as a guide. But. Here it goes: 3 years serious work experience. Large, well-known firm in a prestigious industry. Accolades. How much GPA does that "buy" me that I can add to my actual GPA to reach a firm's internal, unstated GPA cutoff.

Yes, different for every firm. So, let's apply this ONLY to firms that would at least consider to hire in my actual GPA range, even if they rarley do so. I already know which firms meet that definition from another source.

this question seems a bit nonsensical but will try:

if you are below our cut, and we have sufficient candidates we like above our cut, you probably have a close to zero chance. if you are awesome and can wow me there's a chance.

otherwise, the only things i have to judge you on - really - are grades and the person you present to me in 20 minutes.

how can you prove to me that your awesome accolades are independently achieved? if you are a rhodes scholar, for example, that's an achievement where i understand the process for how someone obtains it and it's independent verification of awesomeness. but how do i know what your job was, really? vice president at goldman could mean you're an investment banking star, could mean you're back-office schlub, could mean your daddy's a big client.

20 minutes with you can sometimes indicate you've got more brainpower working than your grades suggest. and sometimes it can do the opposite.

So, two questions: a) let's say you think I have more brainpower than my grades suggest. Grades still matter, right? You'd have to go to bat for me if my grades are below the cut, and why would you do that? b) What if, because of the grades, you don't get the interview in the first place? That's why I was asking whether professional experience could help me get the interview.

a) if i think you'd make a great lawyer / are someone i'd want to work with
b) not really sure, but guessing not. if there's a hard cut there's a hard cut.

[itbdvorm]

I am somewhat in the same position as an above poster who is going to OCI while SAing at a firm. If you were the recruiter would you necessarily wait until I was offered before moving me to the callback level (and why)? Also, my reason for attending OCI is not so much being worried about being no-offered as it is about the $20K annual increase I would earn with your firm over my SA firm. When asked about why I would rather be at your firm, do I mention the 20K difference (or just leave it at how terrific your firm is)?

i don't totally follow this line, but if i liked you enough to give a callback, "not made an offer decision yet" is a fine response and probably wouldn't stop me from extending one.

[itbdvorm]

Who goes through the stack of OCI resumes to do the first cull? Lawyer committee or an office's director of recruitment? Who has more pull to get the resume through the first cull? Any given associate or an office's director of recruitment?

I don't totally follow. at the schools at which I interview I meet with the students directly? for mass-mail i think recruiting office. but an associate putting in a strong word for you always helps

[itbdvorm]

A few pages back you mentioned that you've had some business/legal hybrid exit options. Any chance that you could expand on what types of exit options might exist for someone who wanted to switch to a more business oriented role after doing transactional work in BigLaw for a few years?

Additionally, any thoughts on someone still in law school choosing between consulting (BCG, Mck., etc.) and BigLaw corporate work if they were somewhat undecided about whether they wanted to end up in a legal or business role long term?

often a "vp, business and legal affairs" type role at a company, a hybrid banking role, occasionally PE / hedge fund type positions. the smaller the shop the more flexible the role likely would be

if truly uncertain i guess i'd say the firm would be a better way to go (because consulting / business options may be there later), but i do know plenty of people who went to the consulting gig and seem happy.

[Anonymous User]

Two weeks ago I was supposed to meet with an attorney (coffee) at a firm I'm hoping to interview with at OCI. There was a bit of a mix-up and I accidentally missed him. When I figured it out I called him immediately, and apologized. He didn't make it seem it was that big of a deal at all, but I haven't heard from him since. Should I be worried at all or is this nothing?

[Anonymous User]

I have a decent amount of pre law school experience in a particular field, and want to be in that practice group. I was talking with a partner I know personally in market X, which is not only one of the firm's main offices, but where the head of that department is, as well as the bulk of the practice group.

After about a week, I was told my skills would be a better fit in market Y, and I should expect a callback in a few weeks from that office. But, not only is market Y a satellite office for them, it doesn't offer a summer program, and having read the bio of the person said partner mentioned, I don't see the fit.
Am I being trolled?

[roranoa]

Two weeks ago I was supposed to meet with an attorney (coffee) at a firm I'm hoping to interview with at OCI. There was a bit of a mix-up and I accidentally missed him. When I figured it out I called him immediately, and apologized. He didn't make it seem it was that big of a deal at all, but I haven't heard from him since. Should I be worried at all or is this nothing?

How could the OP possibly know this? This just depends on what kind of a person he is.

[Anonymous User]

Two weeks ago I was supposed to meet with an attorney (coffee) at a firm I'm hoping to interview with at OCI. There was a bit of a mix-up and I accidentally missed him. When I figured it out I called him immediately, and apologized. He didn't make it seem it was that big of a deal at all, but I haven't heard from him since. Should I be worried at all or is this nothing?

How could the OP possibly know this? This just depends on what kind of a person he is.

I guess what I'm really asking (and doing a terrible job of doing) is if recruiting coordinator are gathering evaluations/opinions if any contact whatsoever is going on, or if they won't even waste their time until screeners and callbacks.

[itbdvorm]

I have a decent amount of pre law school experience in a particular field, and want to be in that practice group. I was talking with a partner I know personally in market X, which is not only one of the firm's main offices, but where the head of that department is, as well as the bulk of the practice group.

After about a week, I was told my skills would be a better fit in market Y, and I should expect a callback in a few weeks from that office. But, not only is market Y a satellite office for them, it doesn't offer a summer program, and having read the bio of the person said partner mentioned, I don't see the fit.
Am I being trolled?

uh. no idea. meet with them and find out

[itbdvorm]

Two weeks ago I was supposed to meet with an attorney (coffee) at a firm I'm hoping to interview with at OCI. There was a bit of a mix-up and I accidentally missed him. When I figured it out I called him immediately, and apologized. He didn't make it seem it was that big of a deal at all, but I haven't heard from him since. Should I be worried at all or is this nothing?

How could the OP possibly know this? This just depends on what kind of a person he is.

I guess what I'm really asking (and doing a terrible job of doing) is if recruiting coordinator are gathering evaluations/opinions if any contact whatsoever is going on, or if they won't even waste their time until screeners and callbacks.

maybe? but i can't imagine he's going to go out of his way to destroy you. if anything you probably lost a chance to help yourself. unless he's an a-hole

[Anonymous User]

how do you handle urms?

1. who counts? only AA/NA/mx/pr? what about non-mx/pr hispanic (like Dominican) or asian?
2. are urms subjected to lower cutoffs (3.3 instead of 3.5), lower school rank (t20 instead of t6), or is it that the cutoff is the same but once a urm is over it, s/he gets the job automatically?

thanks

[itbdvorm]

how do you handle urms?

1. who counts? only AA/NA/mx/pr? what about non-mx/pr hispanic (like Dominican) or asian?
2. are urms subjected to lower cutoffs (3.3 instead of 3.5), lower school rank (t20 instead of t6), or is it that the cutoff is the same but once a urm is over it, s/he gets the job automatically?

thanks

this is a complicated question without an easy answer. think of it as analogous to a points system. you get a point, but nothing's automatic.