Sidley NY

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Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:31 pm

Is Sidley NY a well-regarded office? I know Sidley Chicago & DC have good reputations, but I have a cb from NY and can't seem to find much recent, pre-ITE info on the NY office's rep in particular. From what I can tell it's been getting steadily better, but I'd prefer to work in an office that originates work on its own as opposed to just getting work farmed out from offices located in other cities- does anyone (maybe a SA from previous years) have info on the strength/quality of the NY office's work in its own right?

Also, offer data would be appreciated (for this year if it's available, for last year if not). Thanks!

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:08 am

Depends what you're looking at. Their public finance practice is the best in the country. I would guess much of their corporate work originates in the office as well, though it's hard to know. We're not talking about a small satellite office; any office with hundreds of lawyers will be originating most of its work.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:35 am

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Firms/3692-42611

Read the Chambers and Partners. Many of the NY's top practices are ranked in the nationwide category (e.g. capital markets, funds (hedge & mutual), insurance). NY office does not rely on other offices for work. You can't sustain a 300+ people office without having many major clients.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:01 pm

thanks for the responses! (this is the op.)

in addition to the office's ability to generate work, i want to know if i'd get decent quality work with good clients here (looking at corporate/transactional). i'm wondering if a branch office (even a large and self-sustaining one) lacking the benefit of having all the firm's top people at that office would be able to compete with some of the NY-based firms in terms of work. would the quality of work be comparable to NY-based firms in the v20 and v30 range? thanks.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:thanks for the responses! (this is the op.)

in addition to the office's ability to generate work, i want to know if i'd get decent quality work with good clients here (looking at corporate/transactional). i'm wondering if a branch office (even a large and self-sustaining one) lacking the benefit of having all the firm's top people at that office would be able to compete with some of the NY-based firms in terms of work. would the quality of work be comparable to NY-based firms in the v20 and v30 range? thanks.


I'm wondering the same thing. Plus, Sidley gets great marks for international work, but that doesn't comport entirely with the vibe I got at the office. Thoughts?

I guess the operative question is, is Sidley still a V20 in NY (vault says it is, in their NY rankings, but those are hard to trust because similar places like Jones Day don't even show up in the top 25)?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I guess the operative question is, is Sidley still a V20 in NY (vault says it is, in their NY rankings, but those are hard to trust because similar places like Jones Day don't even show up in the top 25)?


sorry but the above makes absolutely no sense. vault makes the rankings, so if they say it's a V20, it is.

if you want to check how well the firm is regarded in international work, the chambers rankings are a good bet.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I guess the operative question is, is Sidley still a V20 in NY (vault says it is, in their NY rankings, but those are hard to trust because similar places like Jones Day don't even show up in the top 25)?


sorry but the above makes absolutely no sense. vault makes the rankings, so if they say it's a V20, it is.

if you want to check how well the firm is regarded in international work, the chambers rankings are a good bet.


thanks for the advice. why even spend the time to type out something that won't help anybody?

obviously what i meant is that there are connotations about satellite offices, and that since vault is an imperfect metric based only on outside perspectives, there is a question as to whether Sidley NY still attracts the sophisticated clients and good legal talent that it's Chicago office can get in Chicago.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:28 am

I am curious about this too, specifically litigation.

On the one hand, Chambers hardly rates Sidley NY for NY litigation:
http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43206
(Band 4 for securities lit., and that's it.)

On the other hand, Benchmark Litigation gives Sidley NY high marks:
http://benchmarklitigation.com/

Hm.

Two people in the Harvard OCI thread said Sidley NY ">>>Paul Hastings NY." It seems that is probably true for overall reputation, which counts for something I suppose. Is it true for litigation specifically?

Apparently NY office is great at securities litigation. What about general commercial?

Does the Sidley lit. group mainly serve the corporate clients, or does it have its own?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:23 am

For what it's worth, the firm is really pushing its litigation capabilities (see chambers associate). But this might be more Chicago-focused. This is the problem with Sidley, it's so hard to tell what the NY office is capable of or where it stands in relation to other NY firms.

From what I can gather, all of the Chambers-ranked partners in the big litigation practices (especially appellate) seem to be in DC, and to a lesser degree Chicago. However, I think it's pretty indisputable that Sidley NY has a respectable lit practice. Maybe just not elite. But maybe it is. Hard to know when everything about this office is based in conjecture.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:28 am

Sidley NY's corporate practice is pretty cookie-cutter. They used to do a lot of the mortgage-backed securities offerings before they dried up. They do a lot of straightforward credit work too. I don't think they're comparable to the other out-of-town NYC V20s (Kirkland, Latham, Gibson) in terms of their corporate practice.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:39 am

Isn't Latham based out of NY?

Re: Sidley, just noticed Vault ranks Sidley high for general litigation as well. #17. Yet, that ranking seems to reflect the firm as a whole, not the NY office necessarily.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:Sidley NY's corporate practice is pretty cookie-cutter. They used to do a lot of the mortgage-backed securities offerings before they dried up. They do a lot of straightforward credit work too. I don't think they're comparable to the other out-of-town NYC V20s (Kirkland, Latham, Gibson) in terms of their corporate practice.


How does Sidley NY compare to White & Case? Both are ranked high in vault for international (transactional?) work, and relatively similar in the overall vault rankings, but White & Case seems to have a much better reputation in terms of its client base. Any thoughts on this comparison?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley NY's corporate practice is pretty cookie-cutter. They used to do a lot of the mortgage-backed securities offerings before they dried up. They do a lot of straightforward credit work too. I don't think they're comparable to the other out-of-town NYC V20s (Kirkland, Latham, Gibson) in terms of their corporate practice.


How does Sidley NY compare to White & Case? Both are ranked high in vault for international (transactional?) work, and relatively similar in the overall vault rankings, but White & Case seems to have a much better reputation in terms of its client base. Any thoughts on this comparison?



Rumors suggest White & Case isn't doing well financially. I personally don't know how true that is, but just search for white & case on this board, and you'll see that.

Sidley has a reputation for being conservatively managed, and it has done relatively well throughout the recession. They had to layoff a bit as did nearly every firm, but profits per partner actually rose. Sidley is back up to 1700+ attorneys and is now looking to recruit slightly larger summer classes.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Sep 12, 2011 6:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sidley NY's corporate practice is pretty cookie-cutter. They used to do a lot of the mortgage-backed securities offerings before they dried up. They do a lot of straightforward credit work too. I don't think they're comparable to the other out-of-town NYC V20s (Kirkland, Latham, Gibson) in terms of their corporate practice.


This sounds right to me. As to the question below comparing to White and Case, I believe W&C has a better NYC corporate practice (I've seen them on some things; I never see Sidley really)

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:09 pm

This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 7:28 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?


The Vault rankings for NY put Sidley at 17, ahead of Gibson, Milbank, Willkie, even Ropes. This is definitely an aberration to some degree, and of course the number itself doesn't matter as much as the general area of the ranking, but what I'm wondering is why Sidley is getting voted that high (moreover it was ranked at 14 last year). What practices/clients/partners are making it look good in NY? That's sort of the mystery of Sidley for me - looking through chambers and this board, everything seems fairly middling by NY standards, but Sidley's been up there for awhile now. Anyone with insight would be a huge help right now (although a lot of the posts here have been really helpful so far, including the one quoted above).

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:07 pm

imchuckbass58 wrote:This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?


When I checked Chambers I saw the Corporate/M&A practice ranked as Chambers Band 1...am I missing something? Not trying to be snarky here, I'm actually wondering why people on here are saying it's not highly ranked in these areas when the Chambers website says it is. Chambers also has the Litigation practice ranked at Band 2 with Securities at Band 3.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/3692

also, random question re. Chambers rankings: what does it mean when the sidebar rankings on the right have a particular office bolded? does it mean the practice area in question is run out of that office?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?


When I checked Chambers I saw the Corporate/M&A practice ranked as Chambers Band 1...am I missing something? Not trying to be snarky here, I'm actually wondering why people on here are saying it's not highly ranked in these areas when the Chambers website says it is. Chambers also has the Litigation practice ranked at Band 2 with Securities at Band 3.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/3692

also, random question re. Chambers rankings: what does it mean when the sidebar rankings on the right have a particular office bolded? does it mean the practice area in question is run out of that office?


Band 1 Highly Regarded = Band 5/6 real life. Bolded means that the market in question is where the practice is in the band. Not bolded means the practice is ranked, but lower.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?


When I checked Chambers I saw the Corporate/M&A practice ranked as Chambers Band 1...am I missing something? Not trying to be snarky here, I'm actually wondering why people on here are saying it's not highly ranked in these areas when the Chambers website says it is. Chambers also has the Litigation practice ranked at Band 2 with Securities at Band 3.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/3692

also, random question re. Chambers rankings: what does it mean when the sidebar rankings on the right have a particular office bolded? does it mean the practice area in question is run out of that office?


Band 1 Highly Regarded = Band 5/6 real life. Bolded means that the market in question is where the practice is in the band. Not bolded means the practice is ranked, but lower.


Am I just retarded... because when I go to the above link I see NY having band 1 rankings in a lot of things, including corporate/MA. Where are you seeing "highly regarded"? And where did you read that "highly regarded" means band 5 or 6? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Am I just retarded... because when I go to the above link I see NY having band 1 rankings in a lot of things, including corporate/MA. Where are you seeing "highly regarded"? And where did you read that "highly regarded" means band 5 or 6? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?


was wondering this too (i asked about the bolded offices above).

anyway, there are so many ranking systems saying so many different things i've stopped trying to make any sense of it (chambers global/chambers associate/chambers partners/vault/amlaw/benchmark all seem to be saying slightly different things about the firm). imo, the takeaway is that sidley ny isn't on the same level as cravath/skadden/dpw, which we all knew anyway, but that it's pretty solidly a peer with firms like S&S, white & case, etc.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Am I just retarded... because when I go to the above link I see NY having band 1 rankings in a lot of things, including corporate/MA. Where are you seeing "highly regarded"? And where did you read that "highly regarded" means band 5 or 6? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?


was wondering this too (i asked about the bolded offices above).

anyway, there are so many ranking systems saying so many different things i've stopped trying to make any sense of it (chambers global/chambers associate/chambers partners/vault/amlaw/benchmark all seem to be saying slightly different things about the firm). imo, the takeaway is that sidley ny isn't on the same level as cravath/skadden/dpw, which we all knew anyway, but that it's pretty solidly a peer with firms like S&S, white & case, etc.


For NY M&A, there are two categories: "M&A: The Elite" and "M&A: Highly Regarded." Each has 4 or 5 bands. So if you are Band 1 in highly regarded, you are effectively band 5 or 6in all of M&A.

See here: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43188

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:This is just echoing a lot of what has already been said in this thread, but I'll say it again just for emphasis.

Sidley NY is fine, but nowhere near the caliber of Chicago or DC, and not really on par with other out of town firms in the same range, such as Gibson, Kirkland, Latham, etc., or probably even the less-elite NY-based firms (Willkie, Shearman, Cahill, Milbank, etc). Despite having upwards of 300 lawyers, they're not really ranked particularly highly on chambers in any of the mainstay specialities (M&A, lit, etc). The corporate practice is heavily slanted towards securitizations.

It's not a bad place, and I've heard great things about culture, but in terms of practice strength I'm not sure it's really up there.

I guess the real question is what are your other options?


When I checked Chambers I saw the Corporate/M&A practice ranked as Chambers Band 1...am I missing something? Not trying to be snarky here, I'm actually wondering why people on here are saying it's not highly ranked in these areas when the Chambers website says it is. Chambers also has the Litigation practice ranked at Band 2 with Securities at Band 3.

http://www.chambers-associate.com/FirmFeature/3692

also, random question re. Chambers rankings: what does it mean when the sidebar rankings on the right have a particular office bolded? does it mean the practice area in question is run out of that office?


Band 1 Highly Regarded = Band 5/6 real life. Bolded means that the market in question is where the practice is in the band. Not bolded means the practice is ranked, but lower.


Am I just retarded... because when I go to the above link I see NY having band 1 rankings in a lot of things, including corporate/MA. Where are you seeing "highly regarded"? And where did you read that "highly regarded" means band 5 or 6? Are you sure you know what you are talking about?


Sidley is not band 1 in anything specific to New York (except M&A/highly regarded), but does have several band 1 nationwide rankings: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Firms/3692-42611. What makes Sidley a tough nut to crack is figuring out how the NY office fits into those high-band rankings - in securities, for example, it's almost all NY; in other areas, Chicago and DC play a bigger role. More of an art than a science.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is not band 1 in anything specific to New York (except M&A/highly regarded), but does have several band 1 nationwide rankings: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Firms/3692-42611. What makes Sidley a tough nut to crack is figuring out how the NY office fits into those high-band rankings - in securities, for example, it's almost all NY; in other areas, Chicago and DC play a bigger role. More of an art than a science.


agreed, it's absurdly hard to figure out where Sidley falls in terms of NY. i'll probably end up choosing the firm due to the culture (liked it way better & felt a lot more comfortable there than any of my other options). i also have absolutely no desire to do M&A though, would probably choose another firm if i did.

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is not band 1 in anything specific to New York (except M&A/highly regarded), but does have several band 1 nationwide rankings: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Firms/3692-42611. What makes Sidley a tough nut to crack is figuring out how the NY office fits into those high-band rankings - in securities, for example, it's almost all NY; in other areas, Chicago and DC play a bigger role. More of an art than a science.


agreed, it's absurdly hard to figure out where Sidley falls in terms of NY. i'll probably end up choosing the firm due to the culture (liked it way better & felt a lot more comfortable there than any of my other options). i also have absolutely no desire to do M&A though, would probably choose another firm if i did.


Making a similar decision and leaning the same way for the same reasons. Any chance you'd be willing to share any of the other places you're looking at or the practice areas you're considering?

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Re: Sidley NY

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Sidley is not band 1 in anything specific to New York (except M&A/highly regarded), but does have several band 1 nationwide rankings: http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Firms/3692-42611. What makes Sidley a tough nut to crack is figuring out how the NY office fits into those high-band rankings - in securities, for example, it's almost all NY; in other areas, Chicago and DC play a bigger role. More of an art than a science.


agreed, it's absurdly hard to figure out where Sidley falls in terms of NY. i'll probably end up choosing the firm due to the culture (liked it way better & felt a lot more comfortable there than any of my other options). i also have absolutely no desire to do M&A though, would probably choose another firm if i did.


Making a similar decision and leaning the same way for the same reasons. Any chance you'd be willing to share any of the other places you're looking at or the practice areas you're considering?


i'd rather not say the exact names of the firms, but they are between v15 (sidley) & v30. i'm considering a NY-based firm with similar vault ranking to Sidley's, but i've heard a good number of people say it's a rough work environment, which is also the feel i got from my interviews overall, and that the firm is not doing particularly well financially (you may be able to guess the firm from those particular details).

i'm looking at corporate and leaning toward private equity and hedge funds right now, but have no idea how this may change after the summer. pre-ITE i'd also have liked Sidley for its securitization practice, but a lot of its work centered around mortgage-backed securities, which is total shit right now.




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