UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

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UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:05 am

I thought I would post this internal information that the school distributes to all students regarding summer employment data for this year. The data is pretty comprehensive (I think everyone is included):

Students: 215 (Including joint degree students)
Approximate Joint Degree Students (not eligible for summer associate positions (SA)): 12
Students eligible for SA Positions: 203
Students with Single SA Positions: 151
Students with Double SA: 15
Students with Triple SA: 1
Students with PI/SA:1
Students with Gov/SA:2
Public Interest: 22
Government: 20
Corporate: 3

Percent of eligible students with SA jobs: 83.7 Percent (170/203)
Percent of eligible students who got the job they wanted: 91 Percent.

To answer some possible questions:

1) How many of the people in government or PI actually wanted to be there?
A) I don't know, but from the types of specialized positions a lot of the PI and government people are in, which are pretty hard to get and still prestigious, I would guess fifty percent.

2) Why when I add up government, corporate, PI, and SA, does the figure equal 215 and not 203?
A) Because the joint degree students are included in the PI, government, and corporate numbers-- however, none are included in the SA data to my knowledge.

3) But aren't some of the "firms" that students are SAing at actually crappy lower-level firms?
A) Probably, but the number are negligible, and I recognize 95% of the firms on the SA list.

4) Can you give a break down of where people worked?
A) Some other day.

5)If you had to guess what percentage of people that were eligible, and wanted SA positions got SA positions, what number would you give?
A) I would say roughly 91 percent (assuming 50-percent of the remaining 33 non-summer associates sought out their positions).

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:I thought I would post this internal information that the school distributes to all students regarding summer employment data for this year. The data is pretty comprehensive (I think everyone is included):

Students: 215 (Including joint degree students)
Approximate Joint Degree Students (not eligible for summer associate positions (SA)): 12
Students eligible for SA Positions: 203
Students with Single SA Positions: 151
Students with Double SA: 15
Students with Triple SA: 1
Students with PI/SA:1
Students with Gov/SA:2
Public Interest: 22
Government: 20
Corporate: 3

Percent of eligible students with SA jobs: 83.7 Percent (170/203)
Percent of eligible students who got the job they wanted: 91 Percent.

To answer some possible questions:

1) How many of the people in government or PI actually wanted to be there?
A) I don't know, but from the types of specialized positions a lot of the PI and government people are in, which are pretty hard to get and still prestigious, I would guess fifty percent.

2) Why when I add up government, corporate, PI, and SA, does the figure equal 215 and not 203?
A) Because the joint degree students are included in the PI, government, and corporate numbers-- however, none are included in the SA data to my knowledge.

3) But aren't some of the "firms" that students are SAing at actually crappy lower-level firms?
A) Probably, but the number are negligible, and I recognize 95% of the firms on the SA list.

4) Can you give a break down of where people worked?
A) Some other day.

5)If you had to guess what percentage of people that were eligible, and wanted SA positions got SA positions, what number would you give?
A) I would say roughly 91 percent (assuming 50-percent of the remaining 33 non-summer associates sought out their positions).


Thank you for posting this great data! Seriously, it would be great if we could get this kind of data from all the T14 schools.

I don't understand though how you got the 170 total SA number.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:35 am

Rock-N-Roll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I thought I would post this internal information that the school distributes to all students regarding summer employment data for this year. The data is pretty comprehensive (I think everyone is included):

Students: 215 (Including joint degree students)
Approximate Joint Degree Students (not eligible for summer associate positions (SA)): 12
Students eligible for SA Positions: 203
Students with Single SA Positions: 151
Students with Double SA: 15
Students with Triple SA: 1
Students with PI/SA:1
Students with Gov/SA:2
Public Interest: 22
Government: 20
Corporate: 3

Percent of eligible students with SA jobs: 83.7 Percent (170/203)
Percent of eligible students who got the job they wanted: 91 Percent.

To answer some possible questions:

1) How many of the people in government or PI actually wanted to be there?
A) I don't know, but from the types of specialized positions a lot of the PI and government people are in, which are pretty hard to get and still prestigious, I would guess fifty percent.

2) Why when I add up government, corporate, PI, and SA, does the figure equal 215 and not 203?
A) Because the joint degree students are included in the PI, government, and corporate numbers-- however, none are included in the SA data to my knowledge.

3) But aren't some of the "firms" that students are SAing at actually crappy lower-level firms?
A) Probably, but the number are negligible, and I recognize 95% of the firms on the SA list.

4) Can you give a break down of where people worked?
A) Some other day.

5)If you had to guess what percentage of people that were eligible, and wanted SA positions got SA positions, what number would you give?
A) I would say roughly 91 percent (assuming 50-percent of the remaining 33 non-summer associates sought out their positions).


Thank you for posting this great data! Seriously, it would be great if we could get this kind of data from all the T14 schools.

I don't understand though how you got the 170 total SA number.


Add up the number of people doing a single SA, a double SA, a triple SA, and splits between gov and PI whle SAing. I just think its crazy that 83 percent of Chicago landed a summer associate position in this economy.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:40 am

Seems like it's probably overstated, especially given the utter shitshow the UChicago OCI thread was last year, and the horrible condition of the Chicago (the city) legal market. At the least, I bet the "single SA" numbers include all of the other SA numbers (so the total SAs is 151, not 170). Also suspect some things are being counted as "SAs" that aren't SAs in any meaningful sense (working for a solo practitioner for $10/hr, e.g.).

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:43 am

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like it's probably overstated, especially given the utter shitshow the UChicago OCI thread was last year, and the horrible condition of the Chicago (the city) legal market. At the least, I bet the "single SA" numbers include all of the other SA numbers (so the total SAs is 151, not 170). Also suspect some things are being counted as "SAs" that aren't SAs in any meaningful sense (working for a solo practitioner for $10/hr, e.g.).


The OP appears to have added everything up on his/her own. This sounds like individual data points, not just a Career Services list of what is a SA and what isn't. OP -- correct me if I'm wrong.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Rock-N-Roll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I thought I would post this internal information that the school distributes to all students regarding summer employment data for this year. The data is pretty comprehensive (I think everyone is included):

Students: 215 (Including joint degree students)
Approximate Joint Degree Students (not eligible for summer associate positions (SA)): 12
Students eligible for SA Positions: 203
Students with Single SA Positions: 151
Students with Double SA: 15
Students with Triple SA: 1
Students with PI/SA:1
Students with Gov/SA:2
Public Interest: 22
Government: 20
Corporate: 3

Percent of eligible students with SA jobs: 83.7 Percent (170/203)
Percent of eligible students who got the job they wanted: 91 Percent.

To answer some possible questions:

1) How many of the people in government or PI actually wanted to be there?
A) I don't know, but from the types of specialized positions a lot of the PI and government people are in, which are pretty hard to get and still prestigious, I would guess fifty percent.

2) Why when I add up government, corporate, PI, and SA, does the figure equal 215 and not 203?
A) Because the joint degree students are included in the PI, government, and corporate numbers-- however, none are included in the SA data to my knowledge.

3) But aren't some of the "firms" that students are SAing at actually crappy lower-level firms?
A) Probably, but the number are negligible, and I recognize 95% of the firms on the SA list.

4) Can you give a break down of where people worked?
A) Some other day.

5)If you had to guess what percentage of people that were eligible, and wanted SA positions got SA positions, what number would you give?
A) I would say roughly 91 percent (assuming 50-percent of the remaining 33 non-summer associates sought out their positions).


Thank you for posting this great data! Seriously, it would be great if we could get this kind of data from all the T14 schools.

I don't understand though how you got the 170 total SA number.


Add up the number of people doing a single SA, a double SA, a triple SA, and splits between gov and PI whle SAing. I just think its crazy that 83 percent of Chicago landed a summer associate position in this economy.


I was asking because I would have assumed that double and triple SAs as well as the splitters would all have been counted in the 151 total people who got a single SA (because technically they all did get a single SA), so it seemed like you were possibly double counting those people.

Either way though UChi, still slayed-it obviously.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:Seems like it's probably overstated, especially given the utter shitshow the UChicago OCI thread was last year, and the horrible condition of the Chicago (the city) legal market. At the least, I bet the "single SA" numbers include all of the other SA numbers (so the total SAs is 151, not 170). Also suspect some things are being counted as "SAs" that aren't SAs in any meaningful sense (working for a solo practitioner for $10/hr, e.g.).



No. This data comes from a "who worked where" list published by our career services. It has everyone's name, job, class year, the year they are working the job, and the employer/office. It is made so that students from the class before us coming in to OCI can email us and ask questions about our employer.

I did not double count. There are 170 total, different people working summer associate positions.

As for your concern about the "solo practitioner" thing, as I said below, I recognized 95% of the firms people are working for, and I looked at some of the others, and they were mid law firms or boutique firms in mid-level markets. Haven't seen one paying under 2000/week.

Any other Chicago 2Ls or 3Ls can back me up on this if they have five minutes to use the sort function on excel.

They only number that I had to guess on a little bit is the number of the 215 who should be excepted because they are doing joint degrees. I believe career services in another lunch talk said the number was 12 who are doing joint degrees.

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Rock-N-Roll
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Rock-N-Roll » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like it's probably overstated, especially given the utter shitshow the UChicago OCI thread was last year, and the horrible condition of the Chicago (the city) legal market. At the least, I bet the "single SA" numbers include all of the other SA numbers (so the total SAs is 151, not 170). Also suspect some things are being counted as "SAs" that aren't SAs in any meaningful sense (working for a solo practitioner for $10/hr, e.g.).



No. This data comes from a "who worked where" list published by our career services. It has everyone's name, job, class year, the year they are working the job, and the employer/office. It is made so that students from the class before us coming in to OCI can email us and ask questions about our employer.

I did not double count. There are 170 total, different people working summer associate positions.

As for your concern about the "solo practitioner" thing, as I said below, I recognized 95% of the firms people are working for, and I looked at some of the others, and they were mid law firms or boutique firms in mid-level markets. Haven't seen one paying under 2000/week.

Any other Chicago 2Ls or 3Ls can back me up on this if they have five minutes to use the sort function on excel.

They only number that I had to guess on a little bit is the number of the 215 who should be excepted because they are doing joint degrees. I believe career services in another lunch talk said the number was 12 who are doing joint degrees.


Great. Then I'm going to take liberty to consider this as promising news for the entire legal market and not just UChi peeps.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Seems like it's probably overstated, especially given the utter shitshow the UChicago OCI thread was last year, and the horrible condition of the Chicago (the city) legal market. At the least, I bet the "single SA" numbers include all of the other SA numbers (so the total SAs is 151, not 170). Also suspect some things are being counted as "SAs" that aren't SAs in any meaningful sense (working for a solo practitioner for $10/hr, e.g.).


The OP appears to have added everything up on his/her own. This sounds like individual data points, not just a Career Services list of what is a SA and what isn't. OP -- correct me if I'm wrong.


I counted the number of "law firm" category employed people as summer associates, feel free to adjust the number if you see any firms that are not summer associate programs. I did not see any.

Custom sort by "current class," then "employed," then "employer type."

Career services did not remove the joint degree people from the list though, and just counts them as 3Ls graduating in 2012.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:02 pm

Also, there were only 60 out of the 170 that worked in Chicago. I don't know if that is a sign of a bad market, or that it is normal year-to-year.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Also, there were only 60 out of the 170 that worked in Chicago. I don't know if that is a sign of a bad market, or that it is normal year-to-year.

I realize a total market-by-market breakdown might take a while, but can you at least share the NYC and DC numbers? Those will probably be the most useful to people.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:18 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also, there were only 60 out of the 170 that worked in Chicago. I don't know if that is a sign of a bad market, or that it is normal year-to-year.

I realize a total market-by-market breakdown might take a while, but can you at least share the NYC and DC numbers? Those will probably be the most useful to people.


Sure.

Major markets were as follows:

Chicago: 60
New York: 38
DC: 24
LA: 13

Everyone else was pretty dispersed.

imchuckbass58
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:33 am

Great data. Thanks very much for posting.

Just out of curiosity though, why do you say that joint degree students are "not eligible" for summer associate positions?

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birdlaw117
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby birdlaw117 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:00 am

FWIW: The total number of students based on adding each category (excluding joint degree students) is 215. So there is double counting of at least 12. Regardless, UChi seems to have killed it and thanks for the info OP.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:15 am

imchuckbass58 wrote:Great data. Thanks very much for posting.

Just out of curiosity though, why do you say that joint degree students are "not eligible" for summer associate positions?


For joint degree students, firms will want them their second to last year, not their 2l year spent at the firm. They are included in the data, most working in government, business, or pi (inclusive of other positions like lecturer).

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:16 am

I must know a huge portion of that 9% who didn't get what they wanted. I'm calling shenanigans.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:48 am

Desert Fox wrote:I must know a huge portion of that 9% who didn't get what they wanted. I'm calling shenanigans.


I won't send you the data, but the raw numbers are accurate, other uchicago kids can back me up on this. It could be that the whole 17 percent that didn't get a firm job, and some who got regional big or mid law in the remaning 83 percent aren't happy. I think most at pretty happy to have a firm job though.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby 09042014 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I must know a huge portion of that 9% who didn't get what they wanted. I'm calling shenanigans.


I won't send you the data, but the raw numbers are accurate, other uchicago kids can back me up on this. It could be that the whole 17 percent that didn't get a firm job, and some who got regional big or mid law in the remaning 83 percent aren't happy. I think most at pretty happy to have a firm job though.


I just don't believe nobody ended up in small firms. How many of those SA spots pay anywhere near market (not just 160K, but market in their city), AND gives full time offers at the end.

EDIT: In fact I know a 2012'er who is working for a small law firm.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby shoeshine » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:49 am

My God. Those numbers are impressive. I may have picked the wrong school. Oh well, I stand by my decision to not live in and create ties to the worst winter weather in the US.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:21 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I must know a huge portion of that 9% who didn't get what they wanted. I'm calling shenanigans.


I won't send you the data, but the raw numbers are accurate, other uchicago kids can back me up on this. It could be that the whole 17 percent that didn't get a firm job, and some who got regional big or mid law in the remaning 83 percent aren't happy. I think most at pretty happy to have a firm job though.


I just don't believe nobody ended up in small firms. How many of those SA spots pay anywhere near market (not just 160K, but market in their city), AND gives full time offers at the end.

EDIT: In fact I know a 2012'er who is working for a small law firm.


Just for you, I went through and counted the make up of all the firms this morning. six people on the list worked at non big-mid law firms. I believe one of them is a patent boutique that pays market. The other five are local firms, either personal injury or general small law type work.

A point I would like to make is that everyone is very dispersed. Few firm offices took more than one or two UChicago students. This was definitely a case where Chicago's small class size and student body being from a wide variety of places really helped. I think people were prepared for the economy better than the class before them, and were really keying in on places they had ties and trying to reach less based upon their school's name.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:Great data. Thanks very much for posting.

Just out of curiosity though, why do you say that joint degree students are "not eligible" for summer associate positions?


For joint degree students, firms will want them their second to last year, not their 2l year spent at the firm. They are included in the data, most working in government, business, or pi (inclusive of other positions like lecturer).


Just FYI, I'm a 2013 joint degree student (not at Chicago) and I spent this past summer at a firm. It's fairly common - there was another 2013 joint degree at the firm, and the majority of second-year joint degrees at my school had firm jobs.

Don't think it changes the numbers significantly, but just wanted to note that.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby duckmoney » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Also, there were only 60 out of the 170 that worked in Chicago. I don't know if that is a sign of a bad market, or that it is normal year-to-year.

I realize a total market-by-market breakdown might take a while, but can you at least share the NYC and DC numbers? Those will probably be the most useful to people.


Sure.

Major markets were as follows:

Chicago: 60
New York: 38
DC: 24
LA: 13

Everyone else was pretty dispersed.


It's like it's a national school or something.

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Perdevise
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Perdevise » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:21 pm

What is the difference between a PI/gov SA and just PI/Gov?

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Sentry
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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby Sentry » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:58 pm

Perdevise wrote:What is the difference between a PI/gov SA and just PI/Gov?

I think the PI/Gov SA people split and did half their summer at PI/gov and half as an SA.

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Re: UChicago 2011 Summer Employment Data (Class of 2012)

Postby lawgod » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:07 pm

Their biglaw numbers are below 50. How are their SA numbers above 80?




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