UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

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UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:13 pm

Looks like this will be a good year. Anecdotally, it sounds like firms underbooked and liquidated too many the last two years-- hopefully we will see a feeding frenzy at OCI.

Any advice relating to the process, bidding, interviewing, call backs, etc. from 3Ls and graduates who have done this before would be greatly appreciated.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:34 pm

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Last edited by TaipeiMort on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Whatisthis » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:48 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:To 3Ls and others, which market is going to be "easier," Chicago or New York?


I'm just a rising 2L, but I believe, unfortunately, that the clear consensus is that Chicago will be (considerably?) more difficult. It sounds like the market here is really tough right now, even coming out of UofC. I would love to hear opinions from 3Ls and would also love to hear that I am wrong! I want to stay in Chicago, but I really don't want to strikeout at OCI.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:49 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:To 3Ls and others, which market is going to be "easier," Chicago or New York?

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=127861 That might be helpful... or terrifying.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:56 pm

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Last edited by TaipeiMort on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Emma. » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:59 pm

TaipeiMort wrote:It seems to be the consensus that Chicago was easier two years ago, New York was easier last year. Why would Chicago be more difficult this year? Financial sector still down? Spooked markets?


From what I hear, transactional work is picking up in New York, but I don't know that it has really trickled down to Chicago yet.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:13 am

TaipeiMort wrote:To 3Ls and others, which market is going to be "easier," Chicago or New York?

New York may be easier, but there's no reason to bid only on one market. If you are smart with your bidding you should be able to get a good numbers of interviews in both cities. You should be able to get the New York firms that have 42 slots even if you bid them relatively low, since a lot of years only around 40 people go to New York. More people than that will use a portion of their bids on New York, but focusing on Chicago firms and New York firms with 21 slots with your top bids is likely the smart play regardless of class rank- assuming you are actually interested in both markets of course.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:New York may be easier, but there's no reason to bid only on one market. If you are smart with your bidding you should be able to get a good numbers of interviews in both cities. You should be able to get the New York firms that have 42 slots even if you bid them relatively low, since a lot of years only around 40 people go to New York. More people than that will use a portion of their bids on New York, but focusing on Chicago firms and New York firms with 21 slots with your top bids is likely the smart play regardless of class rank- assuming you are actually interested in both markets of course.


How low is relatively low? Are we talking within the top 20? 30? At what point can we no longer realistically expect a bid to result in an interview?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Emma. » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:19 pm

Does anyone have a good plan for how to deal with multi-office bidding? We can only get a max of one interview but need to bid on each office we are interested in. I guess you get an extra bid for each extra office you bid on, because you can only get one interview, but that extra bid is going to be way back at 51, 52, etc. so it maybe isn't going to be too useful as far as getting what you want.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:56 pm

Is it usually true that "more selective" firms are less selective outside their flagship office (Kirkland in New York, Skadden satellite)

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:03 am

Posted this in the bidlist thread, but if anyone here has some UChi specific advice I'd appreciate it!

UChi, Top 5%, LR. Leaning transactional but ideally would like a gig where I can check out lit. as well. Want Bay Area, bidding Chi as a backup.

Here's where I'm at so far. Don't really know what I'm doing. 50 bids, straight lottery.

1. MoFo - SF (10)
2. Gibson Dunn - SF (8)
3. Simpson Thatcher - Palo Alto (21)
4. Skadden - Chi (84)
5. Sidley - Chi (60)
6. Paul Hastings - SF (6)
7. Boies - Oakland (19)
8. Jones Day - SF (21)
9. OMM - SF (21)
10. Kirkland - Chi (84)
11. Baker McKenzie - Chi (21)
12. Goodwin Procter - Silicon Valley (5)
13. Davis Polk Menlo Park (21)
14. Cooley - SF (19)
15. Wilson Sosini - Palo Alto (40)
16. Jenner - Chi (84)
17. Fenwick - SF (21)
18. Mayer Brown - Palo Alto (11
19. Pillsbury - SF (9)
20. Foley Lardner - SF (21)
21. Perkins Coie - Chi (21)
22. Latham - Chi (42)
23. Ropes Gray - SF (12)
24. Bryan Cave - SF (21)
25. White & Case - Palo Alto (21)
26. McDermott - Chi (63)
27. K&L Gates - Chi (21)
28. Winston Strawn - Chi (42)
29. Schiff Hardin - Chi (60)
30. Proskauer - Chi (21)

That's all I have so far. Obviously all big names, if anyone has great suggestions for decent smaller firms in either the Bay Area or Chi I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for the help.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:07 am

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Last edited by TaipeiMort on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:Posted this in the bidlist thread, but if anyone here has some UChi specific advice I'd appreciate it!

UChi, Top 5%, LR. Leaning transactional but ideally would like a gig where I can check out lit. as well. Want Bay Area, bidding Chi as a backup.

Here's where I'm at so far. Don't really know what I'm doing. 50 bids, straight lottery.

1. MoFo - SF (10)
2. Gibson Dunn - SF (8)
3. Simpson Thatcher - Palo Alto (21)
4. Skadden - Chi (84)
5. Sidley - Chi (60)
6. Paul Hastings - SF (6)
7. Boies - Oakland (19)
8. Jones Day - SF (21)
9. OMM - SF (21)
10. Kirkland - Chi (84)
11. Baker McKenzie - Chi (21)
12. Goodwin Procter - Silicon Valley (5)
13. Davis Polk Menlo Park (21)
14. Cooley - SF (19)
15. Wilson Sosini - Palo Alto (40)
16. Jenner - Chi (84)
17. Fenwick - SF (21)
18. Mayer Brown - Palo Alto (11
19. Pillsbury - SF (9)
20. Foley Lardner - SF (21)
21. Perkins Coie - Chi (21)
22. Latham - Chi (42)
23. Ropes Gray - SF (12)
24. Bryan Cave - SF (21)
25. White & Case - Palo Alto (21)
26. McDermott - Chi (63)
27. K&L Gates - Chi (21)
28. Winston Strawn - Chi (42)
29. Schiff Hardin - Chi (60)
30. Proskauer - Chi (21)

That's all I have so far. Obviously all big names, if anyone has great suggestions for decent smaller firms in either the Bay Area or Chi I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for the help.


Does it make sense to list Skadden that high when they have so many interview slots and (what I thought was) a small number of SAs?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Emma. » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:15 am

TaipeiMort wrote:Does anyone know if 1) all firms have equal number of OCI slots, and 2) if firms can see where we bid them.


1) No, the estimated interview slots are listed on symplicity. Firms like K&E Chicago have a lot of slots (like 80+) but there are also firms with anywhere between 2 and 80 slots.

2) I don't think so, but I'm not sure.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Does it make sense to list Skadden that high when they have so many interview slots and (what I thought was) a small number of SAs?


Yeah, you could be right. I haven't looked into class sizes yet. Guess I need to do a lot more research. Probably at the very least Sidley and Skadden should change places.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby TaipeiMort » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:24 am

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Last edited by TaipeiMort on Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:28 am

TaipeiMort wrote:which market is going to be "easier," Chicago or New York?


NYC is easier. There are a lot more jobs there. Chicago's legal market really plummeted a couple years ago - in summer 2010 there were only 250 summer associate positions across all the NALP firms in Chicago; down from 800 in summer 2008. I know Kirkland hired somewhere around 20-30 more SAs this summer, and one other firm picked up its numbers as well, but besides that, hiring was still pretty low (but I never got around to tallying up the total NALP numbers for Chicago for this summer. Just taking a quick glance at NALP, my guess is that there are around 300 SAs in NALP Chicago firms this summer).

EDIT:
Since someone's probably going to ask about the 250 SA thing, here's the chart for up through last summer-

Law firm name
2008 2009 2010 [2L SA class]

Baker & McKenzie LLP – Chicago
2 8 4

Banner & Witcoff, Ltd.
5 3 3

Barnes & Thornburg LLP
3 0 0

BRINKS HOFER GILSON & LIONE
7 12 1

BRYAN CAVE LLP – CHICAGO
6 3 2

Butler Rubin Saltarelli & Boyd LLP
1 1 1

Chapman and Cutler LLP
10 9 7

DLA Piper LLP (US)
18 7 5

Drinker Biddle & Reath LLP
12 5 4

DYKEMA (Dykema Gossett PLLC) - CHICAGO OFFICE
6 3 2

FITCH EVEN TABIN & FLANNERY
7 1 0

FOLEY & LARDNER LLP- CHICAGO
21 9 4

Goldberg Kohn Ltd.
8 1 1

Greenberg Traurig, LLP
6 7 3

Hinshaw & Culbertson LLP
18 7 8

Holland & Knight LLP – Chicago
6 4 2

JENNER & BLOCK LLP
40 46 16

JONES DAY – CHICAGO
17 21 8

K&L Gates LLP - Chicago, IL
10 13 3

Katten Muchin Rosenman LLP
29 15 5

KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP – Chicago
54 52 32

LATHAM & WATKINS LLP – CHICAGO
25 20 9

Locke Lord Bissell & Liddell LLP – Chicago
11 2 2

Lovells LLP
7 4 2

Marshall, Gerstein & Borun LLP
4 2 4

MAYER BROWN LLP
71 46 11

McAndrews, Held & Malloy, Ltd.
7 4 4

McDermott Will & Emery LLP
14 14 8

McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff LLP
9 9 9

McGuireWoods LLP – Chicago
8 11 4

Michael Best & Friedrich LLP
2 2 1

Miller Shakman & Beem LLP
2 1 0

Morgan, Lewis & Bockius LLP
5 3 0

Neal, Gerber & Eisenberg LLP
19 10 0

NIXON PEABODY LLP - Chicago, IL
2 1 2

Paul, Hastings, Janofsky & Walker LLP
14 5 5

Perkins Coie LLP
4 3 1

Pircher, Nichols & Meeks
3 3 3

Quarles & Brady LLP
3 3 0

Reed Smith – Chicago
6 6 2

Ropes & Gray LLP
0 6 5

Schiff Hardin LLP
12 21 8

SEYFARTH SHAW LLP – CHICAGO
9 6 0

Shefsky & Froelich Ltd
2 1 1

SIDLEY AUSTIN LLP – CHICAGO
75 43 20

SKADDEN, ARPS, SLATE, MEAGHER & FLOM LLP - CHICAGO
57 33 9

Sonnenschein Nath & Rosenthal LLP
43 14 6

Thompson Coburn LLP
3 1 1

Ungaretti & Harris LLP
6 4 3

Vedder Price, P.C.
10 5 0

WILDMAN, HARROLD, ALLEN & DIXON LLP
14 17 3

Winston & Strawn LLP
67 54 22

2008 SA total= 809

2009 SA total= 581

2010 SA total= 256

2010 SA/ 2009 SA = 256/581= 44% of the SAs that were available in 2009 were available in 2010

2010 SA/2008 SA = 256/809 = 31.6% of the SAs that were available in 2008 were available in 2010

The 256 number doesn’t seem to bad, but then again, it is right around the size of NU’s class, and then you figure there are 6 schools in the Chicagoland area aiming for those + UIUC, WUSTL, ND, IU, & UMich at least to some extent shooting for those spots. Pretty brutal all things considered.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:48 am

Someone else tallied it up and it came to close to 400 for this summer. Can't find the thread though.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:Posted this in the bidlist thread, but if anyone here has some UChi specific advice I'd appreciate it!

UChi, Top 5%, LR. Leaning transactional but ideally would like a gig where I can check out lit. as well. Want Bay Area, bidding Chi as a backup.

Here's where I'm at so far. Don't really know what I'm doing. 50 bids, straight lottery.

1. MoFo - SF (10)
2. Gibson Dunn - SF (8)
3. Simpson Thatcher - Palo Alto (21)
4. Skadden - Chi (84)
5. Sidley - Chi (60)
6. Paul Hastings - SF (6)
7. Boies - Oakland (19)
8. Jones Day - SF (21)
9. OMM - SF (21)
10. Kirkland - Chi (84)
11. Baker McKenzie - Chi (21)
12. Goodwin Procter - Silicon Valley (5)
13. Davis Polk Menlo Park (21)
14. Cooley - SF (19)
15. Wilson Sosini - Palo Alto (40)
16. Jenner - Chi (84)
17. Fenwick - SF (21)
18. Mayer Brown - Palo Alto (11
19. Pillsbury - SF (9)
20. Foley Lardner - SF (21)
21. Perkins Coie - Chi (21)
22. Latham - Chi (42)
23. Ropes Gray - SF (12)
24. Bryan Cave - SF (21)
25. White & Case - Palo Alto (21)
26. McDermott - Chi (63)
27. K&L Gates - Chi (21)
28. Winston Strawn - Chi (42)
29. Schiff Hardin - Chi (60)
30. Proskauer - Chi (21)

That's all I have so far. Obviously all big names, if anyone has great suggestions for decent smaller firms in either the Bay Area or Chi I'd love to hear them.

Thanks for the help.

A minor point, but Skadden Chicago is selective enough that with 84 slots it can go several spots lower than you have it. Any firm with less than 10 slots should be high on your list if you want an interview, so possibly move a few of those offices up. One of them could take Skadden's spot.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Transferthrowaway » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:51 am

tagged

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Whatisthis
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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Whatisthis » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:02 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Someone else tallied it up and it came to close to 400 for this summer. Can't find the thread though.


From a brief glance at some of the firms on NALP it still seems pretty bleak. Some firms added 1-2 SAs, but this was after slashing 10-20. If someone has done the work, I'd love to see the actually numbers.

400 is better, but it still pretty awful.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:39 pm

I'm a transfer student, so I feel like I'm a little out of the loop in terms of where people are going to be bidding. It seems like at UVA this year a lot of people went heavy on NYC because they thought it would be easier to get a job, but too many people had that same bright idea, and may be getting burned by it in regards to number of interview slots. Is this something that we should be worried about? Can we expect a substantial rise in the number of UChicago people bidding on NYC?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Sentry » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:40 pm

If http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=158059&st=0&sk=t&sd=a is the data you're referring to it looks like Chicago is up to around 460 SA spots.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:56 pm

Whatisthis wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Someone else tallied it up and it came to close to 400 for this summer. Can't find the thread though.


From a brief glance at some of the firms on NALP it still seems pretty bleak. Some firms added 1-2 SAs, but this was after slashing 10-20. If someone has done the work, I'd love to see the actually numbers.

400 is better, but it still pretty awful.


Here's a bit- completely out of order:

Firm: 2010--2011

Jones Day: 8--11
Jenner: 16--16
K&L Gates: 3--4
Chapman & Cutler: 7--8
Greenberg Taurig: 3--5
DLA Piper: 5--4
Drinker: 4--4
Foley & Lardner: 4--2
Katten: 5--18
K&E: 32--54
Latham: 9--10
Mayer: 11--13
McAndrews Held & Malloy: 4--2
McDermott: 8--12
McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff (IP): 9--3
McGuireWoods: 3--5
Neal, Gerber & Eisenberg: 0--4
Paul Hastings: 6--TBD
Perkins Cole: 1--3
Quarles & Brady: 0--TBD
Reed Smith: 2--4
Ropes: 5--7
Sidley: 20--41
Schiff Hardin: 13--11
Skadden: 10--9
SNR Denton: 6--6
Vedder Price: 1--5

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby XxSpyKEx » Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:43 pm

Sentry wrote:If http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=158059&st=0&sk=t&sd=a is the data you're referring to it looks like Chicago is up to around 460 SA spots.


Look at the google spreadsheet. He fucked up the numbers for Chicago. I just briefly glanced at it to figure out why his numbers are different than mine, and I noticed he's double counting and including positions that aren't in Chicago. He pulled the Kirkland collective form (which includes SA in Kirkland Chicago AND other cities) AND he counted Kirkland Chicago separately. I don't know if he did this with other firms, but those numbers are seriously off because adding the the Kirkland collective form adds 68 SA positions in Chicago that were not there in 2010 (because he already counted the 32 from Kirkland's Chicago form). In 2011, using Kirkland's collective form adds 130 SA positions in Chicago that are not there this summer (2011)!! Just pulling out the Kirkland collective form, the numbers drop to 330 in Chicago. Don't know if he double counted other firms by including their collective forms as well (only looked at this briefly), but I would be careful in using his info in making a decision on your bidding.
Last edited by XxSpyKEx on Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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