Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

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Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:51 am

Could anyone speak to this? I go to one of the Midwest T25's and am in the top 10% w/LR. At most schools, this would seem like a lock for biglaw, but I'm not so comfortable. How does someone in our position get a job considering how meager our OCI's look.

Do we mass mail the coasts and hope they don't throw out our resume? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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ndirish2010
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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:20 am

What do you mean by a "meager" OCI. People in your position (I am one of them) usually get jobs. Biglaw not guaranteed of course, but if you don't get a job it won't be because of grades.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:30 am

I mean an OCI that has less than 100 employers, and a lot of them are just resume drops or double offices.

I'm mass mailing every firm I can, but some people say I can just rely on OCI. That seems like a risk. The people in the same position at BU, GW and Fordham (at least the one's I know) aren't mass mailing and they seem pretty comfortable that they will land biglaw.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:31 am

1) Bid on NYC like crazy. There's still significant hiring going on there, and they don't care about ties. Of course, the downside is you'll have no life for the 3-4 years you're stuck working there to repay your loans, but once that's done you'll be an experienced attorney able to lateral elsewhere.

2) Bid in the state/region you're from. Mass mail there, too. Write cover letters that mention how you're from the area and how you want to return there when you graduate.

3) Do you have a particular field of interest? Look up employers in your region who are strong in that field and mass mail them, talking about how and why you have an interest in practicing X law and because they're strong in it you have a strong interest in working for them.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:I mean an OCI that has less than 100 employers, and a lot of them are just resume drops or double offices.

I'm mass mailing every firm I can, but some people say I can just rely on OCI. That seems like a risk. The people in the same position at BU, GW and Fordham (at least the one's I know) aren't mass mailing and they seem pretty comfortable that they will land biglaw.


Less than 100 LOL. We have about 55-60 unique employers, but for a class size of 170 that really isn't that terrible. Resume drops are not OCI. I'm mass mailing NY and whatever Chicago and regional firms aren't coming to OCI anyway though.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:43 am

I understand being paranoid but seriously? Unless you have a specific target market you are worried about getting to, I don't think top 10% at a T25 has to worry about getting a job. Like nd said, if you don't get a job its not gonna be because of your grades or school.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:56 am

Kilpatrick wrote:I understand being paranoid but seriously? Unless you have a specific target market you are worried about getting to, I don't think top 10% at a T25 has to worry about getting a job. Like nd said, if you don't get a job its not gonna be because of your grades or school.

I have heard from many people in similar situations who struck out at OCI and struggled to find work since. OP might be able to find a job through effort, or fail to get one through complacency and blind hope. You're advocating the latter, and you're dead wrong about assuming people in OP's positions are somehow "set" for jobs.

OP isn't in a bad position, but when it comes to job-hunting, it's far better to overdo it than to not do enough.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:06 am

I'm not saying he should rely on OCI. I'm in a similar position and I'm mass mailing and contacting alums etc too. I'm worried about getting the kind of job I want, but I think being worried about being unemployed when you're at the top of the class and on LR at a good school is a little overboard.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:08 am

Kilpatrick wrote:I'm not saying he should rely on OCI. I'm in a similar position and I'm mass mailing and contacting alums etc too. I'm worried about getting the kind of job I want, but I think being worried about being unemployed when you're at the top of the class and on LR at a good school is a little overboard.

It's happened to people in OP's position in recent years, so I think the worrying is pretty valid.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:09 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I'm not saying he should rely on OCI. I'm in a similar position and I'm mass mailing and contacting alums etc too. I'm worried about getting the kind of job I want, but I think being worried about being unemployed when you're at the top of the class and on LR at a good school is a little overboard.

It's happened to people in OP's position in recent years, so I think the worrying is pretty valid.



This is precisely what I am worried about. It seems like such a waste of a good year to strike out. OCI seems like its no guarantee at all. And mass mail seems like its not going to get any results.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Kilpatrick » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:13 am

vanwinkle wrote:
Kilpatrick wrote:I'm not saying he should rely on OCI. I'm in a similar position and I'm mass mailing and contacting alums etc too. I'm worried about getting the kind of job I want, but I think being worried about being unemployed when you're at the top of the class and on LR at a good school is a little overboard.

It's happened to people in OP's position in recent years, so I think the worrying is pretty valid.


OK. You know more about this than I do, so I will defer to you. I just haven't heard of anyone in the top 10% and LR at my T25 that didn't have a decent job lined up.

So, what are things people in OPs position have done that led to striking out?

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby alumniguy » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:41 am

This year's summer associate recruiting will be more robust than last year's recruiting. The main issue is that (i) there aren't that many midwestern biglaw shops (and they simply don't have the number of summer associate positions to ensure that top midwestern law school students get top midwestern biglaw) and (ii) most biglaw shops on the coasts don't recruit from midwest schools.

I would be surprised if OP doesn't get something. If OP is uncomfortable relying on OCI, then start mass mailing to firms on the coasts and see what comes of it. OP probably should have transferred if possible.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:55 am

alumniguy wrote:This year's summer associate recruiting will be more robust than last year's recruiting. The main issue is that (i) there aren't that many midwestern biglaw shops (and they simply don't have the number of summer associate positions to ensure that top midwestern law school students get top midwestern biglaw) and (ii) most biglaw shops on the coasts don't recruit from midwest schools.

I would be surprised if OP doesn't get something. If OP is uncomfortable relying on OCI, then start mass mailing to firms on the coasts and see what comes of it. OP probably should have transferred if possible.


It is unlikely that transferring to Michigan or NU (Chicago is not likely) would significantly help OPs job search. It would also likely cause OP to give up a scholarship.

The definition of "biglaw" is different in the midwest. There are many firms that are big for their markets but aren't even NLJ250 and yet pay market for that area (100-110K usually). Many hire betwee 8 and 10 SAs.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:56 am

I think smart money is on Chicago this year (if you are going to a T1 in the midwest). The recovery NYC had last year is due in Chicago. NYC firms were first to lay off, differ and no offer. Then the rest of the nation followed. Also I doubt many NYC firms are flying to Iowa City/ Minneapolis/ St Louis/ Chabana / South Bend.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby alumniguy » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:00 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:
alumniguy wrote:This year's summer associate recruiting will be more robust than last year's recruiting. The main issue is that (i) there aren't that many midwestern biglaw shops (and they simply don't have the number of summer associate positions to ensure that top midwestern law school students get top midwestern biglaw) and (ii) most biglaw shops on the coasts don't recruit from midwest schools.

I would be surprised if OP doesn't get something. If OP is uncomfortable relying on OCI, then start mass mailing to firms on the coasts and see what comes of it. OP probably should have transferred if possible.


It is unlikely that transferring to Michigan or NU (Chicago is not likely) would significantly help OPs job search. It would also likely cause OP to give up a scholarship.

The definition of "biglaw" is different in the midwest. There are many firms that are big for their markets but aren't even NLJ250 and yet pay market for that area (100-110K usually). Many hire betwee 8 and 10 SAs.


Not to quibble, but you can be assured that a number of coast firms recruit at Michigan or NU and not at MN, Iowa, WUSTL, etc. Hence, had OP transferred, s/he is likely to have had more firms recruiting on campus. Would it be the determinative factor in whether OP is employed/unemployed, I highly doubt it. But for someone concerned about the lake of firms that do OCI, transferring out of T25 midwestern schools should always be a consideration.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I think smart money is on Chicago this year (if you are going to a T1 in the midwest). The recovery NYC had last year is due in Chicago. NYC firms were first to lay off, differ and no offer. Then the rest of the nation followed. Also I doubt many NYC firms are flying to Iowa City/ Minneapolis/ St Louis/ Chabana / South Bend.


Can't speak to other midwest T25s, but NDLS has just five NYC offices (no V10), and another 5 at OSIP (including one V5).

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:24 pm

I had the same stats at a t25 and transferred to one of NU/UM. Believe it or not, some people I talk to raise an eyebrow that I transferred, others think it was a no-brainer. There is no consensus on this.

I think the transfer decision should never come down to the 2L summer and I honestly believe it should be based almost solely on personal reasons. However, the OCI differences are staggering. I know I won't be viewed as a NU/UM student (fully) when I interview but I also don't really care. Just get me in front of someone and I will make it happen. Didn't have that chance at my first school (but OP's school could be totally different and have a more robust OCI).

Plus, your clerkship chances are still golden. I am going to have to work my ass off now.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I had the same stats at a t25 and transferred to one of NU/UM. Believe it or not, some people I talk to raise an eyebrow that I transferred, others think it was a no-brainer. There is no consensus on this.

I think the transfer decision should never come down to the 2L summer and I honestly believe it should be based almost solely on personal reasons. However, the OCI differences are staggering. I know I won't be viewed as a NU/UM student (fully) when I interview but I also don't really care. Just get me in front of someone and I will make it happen. Didn't have that chance at my first school (but OP's school could be totally different and have a more robust OCI).

Plus, your clerkship chances are still golden. I am going to have to work my ass off now.


Yeah, I mean the two reasons I didn't transfer were that I love ND and that being on Law Review at a school that typically places a good number (~ 7%) into Article III clerkships is not a bad thing when that is one of your goals. It probably won't happen as a transferr to UM/NU. I can see the massive OCI selection as a selling point though.

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Re: Midwest T25, Top 10% and LR. How do we get jobs?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:42 pm

Yeah, at ND you stay.

I think I can still clerk because I have a shot at writing-on but the more likely scenario is working a few years then clerking. The whole "relationships with professors" thing is hogwash, in my opinion. I'll meet who I need to meet.




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