References Forum

[Anonymous User]

For those who have gone through OCI:

I am under the impression that, for those firms that require it or ask for it, a list of 3 references will be sufficient. Is that
correct?

Also, what is the most appropriate way to choose references? I have prior WE, and will likely include at least one from that, and then I assume that including a reference from 1L summer is also a smart idea. For the third reference, and for someone primarily focused on firm work, should I use a professor? Another from the prior WE (paralegal at big firm)? Another from 1L summer (gov't position)? Does it even matter?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

[Cavalier]

For those who have gone through OCI:

I am under the impression that, for those firms that require it or ask for it, a list of 3 references will be sufficient. Is that
correct?

Also, what is the most appropriate way to choose references? I have prior WE, and will likely include at least one from that, and then I assume that including a reference from 1L summer is also a smart idea. For the third reference, and for someone primarily focused on firm work, should I use a professor? Another from the prior WE (paralegal at big firm)? Another from 1L summer (gov't position)? Does it even matter?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Three is perfect; it really doesn't matter who you pick. As far as big law firms go, very few of them call references. Pick the people who are least likely to say bad things about you.

[Anonymous User]

It's not strictly speaking wrong to include more than three is it? I've got a judge, a department head from UG, a cheerleading coach (during LS) and an old boss from retail (who will lavish praise on me if called).

Thoughts?

[warumnicht]

Four is perfectly fine, but don't put down any more than that.

As for whom to choose, I'd pick a nice variety of people who'd say good things about you. If everyone can uniformly praise your writing skills but can't say anything about other abilities, time to diversify.

[Anonymous User]

Four is perfectly fine, but don't put down any more than that.

As for whom to choose, I'd pick a nice variety of people who'd say good things about you. If everyone can uniformly praise your writing skills but can't say anything about other abilities, time to diversify.

I think it's a nice cross section.

Judge will talk regarding research and legal writing as well as ability to work in highly diverse areas of law.

Cheerleading coach can speak to personal drive and determination as well as willingness to be a team player and make sacrifices for the greater good.

UG department head can speak to non-legal scholarly writing and general intellectual capabilities.

Retail store manager can talk about work ethic and ability to accomplish tasks with little direction as well as assist other employees with their tasks if they need it.

That's got my bases covered right?

[Anonymous User]

Tangential question - What's the protocol on asking a 1L SA to serve as a reference for other firms at OCI. Seems a bit strange, especially when the end of 1L SA overlaps OCI, but they are my most recent employer (and my only legal work experience) and have said they do not expect me to come back next summer (but do often give a permanent offer to return after 3L). Is this out of the question/is there a tactful way to do this? Coming straight from UG to LS, I have only 2 other references pinned down at this point (supervisors during college and summer, most other jobs were retail/service), and would feel uneasy contacting professors out of the blue. If it's not a good idea to ask my 1L SA for a reference, are 2 references sufficient?

[warumnicht]

Four is perfectly fine, but don't put down any more than that.

As for whom to choose, I'd pick a nice variety of people who'd say good things about you. If everyone can uniformly praise your writing skills but can't say anything about other abilities, time to diversify.

I think it's a nice cross section.

Judge will talk regarding research and legal writing as well as ability to work in highly diverse areas of law.

Cheerleading coach can speak to personal drive and determination as well as willingness to be a team player and make sacrifices for the greater good.

UG department head can speak to non-legal scholarly writing and general intellectual capabilities.

Retail store manager can talk about work ethic and ability to accomplish tasks with little direction as well as assist other employees with their tasks if they need it.

That's got my bases covered right?

Yup, I didn't mean to say that you had a bad cross-section. In fact, I was going to say everything that you just said, but got too lazy to type

For one of my internships, the employer contacted my references. Although a judge gave me a glowing reference as far as my legal abilities went, he couldn't say anything about my people skills because he simply never saw me in that setting. Good thing I had a former restaurant manager on there to rave about how great I was with customers!

[warumnicht]

Tangential question - What's the protocol on asking a 1L SA to serve as a reference for other firms at OCI. Seems a bit strange, especially when the end of 1L SA overlaps OCI, but they are my most recent employer (and my only legal work experience) and have said they do not expect me to come back next summer (but do often give a permanent offer to return after 3L). Is this out of the question/is there a tactful way to do this? Coming straight from UG to LS, I have only 2 other references pinned down at this point (supervisors during college and summer, most other jobs were retail/service), and would feel uneasy contacting professors out of the blue. If it's not a good idea to ask my 1L SA for a reference, are 2 references sufficient?

Three is the recommended number. I don't know of anyone who only listed two.

Why do you feel uneasy about contacting professors? They know full well that students need references and more often than not are more than happy to act as one. Of course, if you never spoke in class and never went to office hours, it could be awkward. But what about a legal research and writing professor who is more familiar with your work? I contacted mine a few weeks before OCI and she was just fine with it.

I wouldn't worry about asking your current firm for a reference, either. If they don't invite their 1Ls back for 2L, they obviously know that you'll need to work somewhere for the summer (and many students need references for school year internships as well), so they shouldn't have a problem with it. It would be different if they wanted you to come back next summer but you were looking for jobs behind their back. Just be polite when you ask.

[Anonymous User]

Tangential question - What's the protocol on asking a 1L SA to serve as a reference for other firms at OCI. Seems a bit strange, especially when the end of 1L SA overlaps OCI, but they are my most recent employer (and my only legal work experience) and have said they do not expect me to come back next summer (but do often give a permanent offer to return after 3L). Is this out of the question/is there a tactful way to do this? Coming straight from UG to LS, I have only 2 other references pinned down at this point (supervisors during college and summer, most other jobs were retail/service), and would feel uneasy contacting professors out of the blue. If it's not a good idea to ask my 1L SA for a reference, are 2 references sufficient?

Three is the recommended number. I don't know of anyone who only listed two.

Why do you feel uneasy about contacting professors? They know full well that students need references and more often than not are more than happy to act as one. Of course, if you never spoke in class and never went to office hours, it could be awkward. But what about a legal research and writing professor who is more familiar with your work? I contacted mine a few weeks before OCI and she was just fine with it.

I wouldn't worry about asking your current firm for a reference, either. If they don't invite their 1Ls back for 2L, they obviously know that you'll need to work somewhere for the summer (and many students need references for school year internships as well), so they shouldn't have a problem with it. It would be different if they wanted you to come back next summer but you were looking for jobs behind their back. Just be polite when you ask.

Thanks, that's helpful. Yeah, I've never really been to an office hour/raised my hand in class, and 3L's teach us legal writing (yes, this happens at a t10), but I need references for an upcoming interview. I did well in all my classes, but I'm not sure my professors would know me off the top of their heads or have anything exciting to say about me other than my grade. We get our midsummer evaluations at my 1L SA soon too, so I can try to bring up the topic of references generally then.