Critique Bid List for HLS 2Hs 8Ps

[Anonymous User]

I'm the same OP who made the other thread about NYC biglaw chances w/ my 2Hs 8Ps. I have made a tentative bid-list based on some info. gathered from TLS, OCS, Vault, ATL Career Center, and other miscellaneous sources. Tell me what you guys think:

1. Cravath; 2
2. S & C; 3
3. Boies Schiller; 17
4. Paul Weiss: 13
5. Simpson Thatcher; 6
6. Skadden,4
7. Davis Polk; 5
8. Weil Gotshal; 7
9. Covington & Burling; 10
10. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP; 14
11. WilmerHale; 21, NY or Boston?
12. Jones Day; 19
13. Shearman & Sterling; 24
14. Ropes & Gray; 25
15. Sidley Austin, 15
16. Quinn Emanuel, 16
17. Paul Hastings, 27
18. MoFo (Morrison and Foerster), 23, SF
19. Cadwalader, 33
20. Orrick; 36
21. Proskauer Rose; 39
22. Wilkie Farr, 46
23. Cahill, 48
24. Goodwin Procter; 41
25. Bingham McCutchen, 49
26. Kramer Levin Naftalis, 86
27. Fenwick & West; out of V100

My personal thoughts: still too top heavy, maybe should cut out Cravath, S&C and Boies, all NYC except Wilmerhale and MoFo. For those 2, I thought it might be smarter to go for their biggest offices. I like the work both of them do. I'm interested in strong lit, but still strong corporate work, as well as life sciences and IP work.

Tear me apart! But be honest.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. And as if it weren't obvious, the list is in order that I will rank them, the numbers to the right of the firm name is the V ranking.

[Anonymous User]

Way too many reaches, especially at the top, and not enough targets. You have no shot at Cravath or Boies or SullCrom, and they certainly should not be your top three.

[Anonymous User]

flame? you're list needs serious work. you have way too many super selective firms ranked high on your list. also, i would lose the dc firms and focus entirely on nyc.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks. K, so if I drop Cravath, S&C, and Boies, what should I replace them with? And which DC firms were you thinking of? And what's the better strategy: bidding all NYC or bidding at the biggest office a target firm has, even if it's not NYC?

[englawyer]

take firms from this list

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843

[Anonymous User]

take firms from this list

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157843

i dont think op has to be quite that conservative. i'd certainly drop cravath, s&c, covington and others. but it might be worth keeping some of the dpw, simpson, and certainly skadden level firms.

[englawyer]

you are right; i wasn't saying he needs that whole list but he was asking about which firms he could add. i would guess a tad below median at HLS could use median at CLS as a pretty good reference point but who knows.

[englawyer]

btw for those saying he should delete X,Y,Z. he could also just add more firms as HLS has up to 35 bids. nonetheless the super selective ones should certainly be moved out of the top few slots.

[TheFriendlyBarber]

I'm the same OP who made the other thread about NYC biglaw chances w/ my 2Hs 8Ps. I have made a tentative bid-list based on some info. gathered from TLS, OCS, Vault, ATL Career Center, and other miscellaneous sources. Tell me what you guys think:

1. Cravath; 2
2. S & C; 3
3. Boies Schiller; 17
4. Paul Weiss: 13
5. Simpson Thatcher; 6
6. Skadden,4
7. Davis Polk; 5
8. Weil Gotshal; 7
9. Covington & Burling; 10
10. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP; 14
11. WilmerHale; 21, NY or Boston?
12. Jones Day; 19
13. Shearman & Sterling; 24
14. Ropes & Gray; 25
15. Sidley Austin, 15
16. Quinn Emanuel, 16
17. Paul Hastings, 27
18. MoFo (Morrison and Foerster), 23, SF
19. Cadwalader, 33
20. Orrick; 36
21. Proskauer Rose; 39
22. Wilkie Farr, 46
23. Cahill, 48
24. Goodwin Procter; 41
25. Bingham McCutchen, 49
26. Kramer Levin Naftalis, 86
27. Fenwick & West; out of V100

My personal thoughts: still too top heavy, maybe should cut out Cravath, S&C and Boies, all NYC except Wilmerhale and MoFo. For those 2, I thought it might be smarter to go for their biggest offices. I like the work both of them do. I'm interested in strong lit, but still strong corporate work, as well as life sciences and IP work.

Tear me apart! But be honest.

[thesealocust]

This is one of the few objectively poor bidlists I've seen posted. Did you do any research or put any though into this? You definitely over-reached, but it's not even coherent, it starts as big name NYC firms and then meanders through big names from various other geographies haphazardly.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. OK, I get that it's not the best bid list right now. I have put some thought into it though; there is some method to the madness. I have been reading about all of these firms, and I made sure each was strong in the practice areas I'm interested in and that employees are generally satisfied. Maybe that's why it could come across as haphazard to someone who just wants to go to the highest ranked places s/he could get in. It's not nearly done. Our bids aren't due until Aug. 2nd. I spoke to a headhunter today and will be reorganizing the list, adding/deleting firms, and reposting tonight when I have time.

[5ky]

OP here. OK, I get that it's not the best bid list right now. I have put some thought into it though; there is some method to the madness. I have been reading about all of these firms, and I made sure each was strong in the practice areas I'm interested in and that employees are generally satisfied. Maybe that's why it could come across as haphazard to someone who just wants to go to the highest ranked places s/he could get in a job. It's not nearly done. Our bids aren't due until Aug. 2nd. I spoke to a headhunter today and will be reorganizing the list, adding/deleting firms, and reposting tonight when I have time.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the same OP who made the other thread about NYC biglaw chances w/ my 2Hs 8Ps. I have made a tentative bid-list based on some info. gathered from TLS, OCS, Vault, ATL Career Center, and other miscellaneous sources. Tell me what you guys think:

1. Cravath; 2
2. S & C; 3
3. Boies Schiller; 17
4. Paul Weiss: 13
5. Simpson Thatcher; 6
6. Skadden,4
7. Davis Polk; 5
8. Weil Gotshal; 7
9. Covington & Burling; 10
10. Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP; 14
11. WilmerHale; 21, NY or Boston?
12. Jones Day; 19
13. Shearman & Sterling; 24
14. Ropes & Gray; 25
15. Sidley Austin, 15
16. Quinn Emanuel, 16
17. Paul Hastings, 27
18. MoFo (Morrison and Foerster), 23, SF
19. Cadwalader, 33
20. Orrick; 36
21. Proskauer Rose; 39
22. Wilkie Farr, 46
23. Cahill, 48
24. Goodwin Procter; 41
25. Bingham McCutchen, 49
26. Kramer Levin Naftalis, 86
27. Fenwick & West; out of V100

My personal thoughts: still too top heavy, maybe should cut out Cravath, S&C and Boies, all NYC except Wilmerhale and MoFo. For those 2, I thought it might be smarter to go for their biggest offices. I like the work both of them do. I'm interested in strong lit, but still strong corporate work, as well as life sciences and IP work.

Tear me apart! But be honest.

Thanks Friendlybarber (besides the fact that I couldn't see the yellow w/o highlighting). What made you knock out Kramer Levin and Jones Day?

[Anonymous User]

Paul Weiss: 13
Kirkland, 9
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP; 14
Sidley Austin, 15
Quinn Emanuel, 16
Paul Hastings, 27
WilmerHale; 21
Simpson Thatcher; 6
Jones Day; 19
Shearman & Sterling; 24
Ropes & Gray; 25
Boies Schiller; 17
MoFo (Morrison and Foerster), 23
Skadden; 4
Debevoise; 12
Davis Polk; 5
Weil Gotshal; 7
Cooley, 60
Cadwalader, 33
Orrick; 36
Proskauer Rose; 39
Wilkie Farr, 46
Pillsbury Winthrop, 58
Cahill, 48
Kasowitz
Goodwin Procter; 41
Bingham McCutchen, 49
Kramer Levin Naftalis, 86

Better? And wth does it say zero SAs this summer for Boies and Shearman on NALP? Did they just not feel like filling out that minor detail?

[Anonymous User]

and Kaye Scholer, 67, somewhere in there...

What's the proper method of ranking them? I looked up their NYC class sizes as a guide, but I know getting that initial interview also depends on what days they're here and how many interview slots there are. Anyone have a rule of thumb or formula?

Btw, I'm not urm (if you mean AA), and I went straight through.

[englawyer]

and Kaye Scholer, 67, somewhere in there...

What's the proper method of ranking them? I looked up their NYC class sizes as a guide, but I know getting that initial interview also depends on what days they're here and how many interview slots there are. Anyone have a rule of thumb or formula?

Btw, I'm not urm (if you mean AA), and I went straight through.

go to OCS website and get old EIP data. rank them based on ratio of bids/screening interviews. if that ratio is high, that means the firm should be high on your list because its tough to get a screening interview. of course this assumes that firms bought the same # of slots as last year and people will bid on the same places. its not 100% but its probably the best we can do.

[thesealocust]

I sometimes make mistakes about law school grading systems or firm selectivity, so take this advice with a grain of salt, but my intuition is that 2Hs/8Ps puts you at or, in all likelihood, below median, yes? And if that's the case, with 300 bright HLS students "above" you, your list (still) looks EXTREMELY aggressive.

[englawyer]

your new list seems alright , but it should be in reverse order. your top bids should be on firms like Cahill etc to ensure you get those crucial interviews. looking at historical data it can be very hard to get an interview at Cahill (70+ bids, ~ 40 interviews). Bid reaches lower.

[Anonymous User]

I'm back with yet another revised bid list based originally on bids/int for 2010, but revised to reflect where I want to work:

Jones Day
Clifford Chance
Bingham McCutchen
Paul Hastings
WilmerHale
Sidley Austin
Shearman & Sterling
Kirkland
Boies Schiller
MoFo
Goodwin Procter
Cahill
Pillsbury Winthrop
Latham
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher
Kramer Levin Naftalis
Skadden
Ropes & Gray
Weil Gotshal
Paul Weiss
Kaye Scholer
Stroock
Hughes Hubbard
Orrick
Proskauer Rose
Cadwalader
Simpson Thatcher
Davis Polk
Willkie Farr
Milbank
Chadbourne

31 firms feels like a lot? Should I cut it down? I heard 2Ls from last year say that they thought it was a mistake to bid for as many as OCS will tell you to.

[GeePee]

I'm back with yet another revised bid list based originally on bids/int for 2010, but revised to reflect where I want to work:

Jones Day
Clifford Chance
Bingham McCutchen
Paul Hastings
WilmerHale
Sidley Austin
Shearman & Sterling
Kirkland
Boies Schiller
MoFo
Goodwin Procter
Cahill
Pillsbury Winthrop
Latham
Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher
Kramer Levin Naftalis
Skadden
Ropes & Gray
Weil Gotshal
Paul Weiss
Kaye Scholer
Stroock
Hughes Hubbard
Orrick
Proskauer Rose
Cadwalader
Simpson Thatcher
Davis Polk
Willkie Farr
Milbank
Chadbourne

31 firms feels like a lot? Should I cut it down? I heard 2Ls from last year say that they thought it was a mistake to bid for as many as OCS will tell you to.

This list is a lot better but I'd still take off Boies for sure, and then strongly consider removing STB and Paul Weiss. I'm not sure DPW or Skadden are good bids, either, but somehow I feel like you at least have a shot there.

[englawyer]

31 firms feels like a lot? Should I cut it down? I heard 2Ls from last year say that they thought it was a mistake to bid for as many as OCS will tell you to.

what was their reasoning? it seems like more bids will just get more screening interviews. are they warning you of exhaustion or what?

[Anonymous User]

31 firms feels like a lot? Should I cut it down? I heard 2Ls from last year say that they thought it was a mistake to bid for as many as OCS will tell you to.

what was their reasoning? it seems like more bids will just get more screening interviews. are they warning you of exhaustion or what?

You should bid on as many as you are able to, but once you get the results you might want to cancel a few. Last year I did six or seven on a single day, and by the last one I had such a huge case of the fuck-it-alls that I performed poorly. No need to decide now, though.

[Anonymous User]

31 firms feels like a lot? Should I cut it down? I heard 2Ls from last year say that they thought it was a mistake to bid for as many as OCS will tell you to.

what was their reasoning? it seems like more bids will just get more screening interviews. are they warning you of exhaustion or what?

You should bid on as many as you are able to, but once you get the results you might want to cancel a few. Last year I did six or seven on a single day, and by the last one I had such a huge case of the fuck-it-alls that I performed poorly. No need to decide now, though.

Yea, that, getting the "fuck-I-can't-do-this-anymore" mentality is part of what I'm afraid of. Also, maybe I've spoken to the wrong (the right?) people, but those I spoke to did not need that many bids to get several callbacks. They wished they had been a bit more selective about their bid lists, by which I mean bid fewer firms but still cover your ass and have some safeties.

I think your strategy could be right in that I can always cancel a few later, but I'm wondering if I'd have a better chance of getting every target firm on my list if I just cull a few now. For example, if I have a ton of firms coming on the 16th on my list, am I setting myself up to lose a few I want because I have too many bids for that day?

[Anonymous User]

OP's back and better than ever.

1. Jones Day 30.4
2. Paul Hastings 44.3
3. WilmerHale 53.4
4. Shearman & Sterling 59.0
5. Bingham McCutchen 40.0
6. MoFo 55.7
7. Sidley Austin 52.2
8. Jones Day (IP - only 1 int.) 57.1
9. Clifford Chance 37.2
10. Hogan Lovells 52.6
11. Latham 60.6
12. Cahill 55.3
13. Goodwin Procter 54.1
14. Ropes & Gray (all offices) 88.6
15. Kirkland 60.9
16. Chadbourne 54.3
17. Gibson Dunn 68.4
18. Skadden 76.6
19. Weil Gotshal (nonpatent) 78.1
20. Weil Gotshal (patent)
21. Debevoise 66.5
22. Fried Frank 75.2
23. Kramer Levin 63.2
24. Paul Weiss 95.9
25. Simpson Thatcher 93.6
26. Proskauer Rose 71.8
27. Milbank 90.0
28. Orrick 70.9
29. Davis Polk 94.5
30. Cadwalader 88.9
31. Willkie Farr 88.9
32. Hughes Hubbard 69.4
33. Stroock 60.9

Yet another iteration of my bid list in preparation for the beginning of bidding tomorrow. The number to the right is #bids/int. based off EIP 2010 stats. I don't think I'll be submitting my list for another couple of days. Still want more feedback. Please, please make the last 10 min. of my life that I spent meticulously transcribing this shiz off of my excel sheet onto TLS worth it and tell me what you think.