HLS EIP 2011

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JayStang1130
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HLS EIP 2011

Postby JayStang1130 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:12 pm

Thought I would get this thread started.

1H 4P 1st Semester, I expect the same this semester. I was wondering if anyone knows what my chances are at a very small branch of a large firm. Are those harder or easier to get into? Based on the results of EIP last year, some firms have like 10 different cities they "interview" for. Are all these the same interviews? If I wanted to do two smaller cities that the firm has more than one branch, I wouldnt interview twice right?

Thanks!

imchuckbass58
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:33 pm

JayStang1130 wrote:Thought I would get this thread started.

1H 4P 1st Semester, I expect the same this semester. I was wondering if anyone knows what my chances are at a very small branch of a large firm. Are those harder or easier to get into? Based on the results of EIP last year, some firms have like 10 different cities they "interview" for. Are all these the same interviews? If I wanted to do two smaller cities that the firm has more than one branch, I wouldnt interview twice right?

Thanks!


For your last question, it depends on the firm. Some will have separate interview schedules for several offices, some will combine all offices into one schedule. For the former group of firms, most will allow you to interview on multiple schedules, but a few will make you choose.

It is generally considered a bad idea to interview for multiple offices of the same firm unless you have a compelling, clearly articulated reason for wanting to go both places. Firms want people who will stick around for at least a few years, and so if it seems like you don't know where you want to be (or worse, if it looks like you're just looking to spend the summer somewhere cool), they will be less likely to take you at both locations, versus if you just applied to one. I found CA firms to be especially wary of this. Also, be prepared to answer which location you would prefer if you do interview for two locations.

Smaller offices tend to be harder to get into than main offices not necessarily because they have higher grade cutoffs, but because they take so few summer associates. Branch offices often take fewer than 10 SAs, sometimes fewer than 5. They can often be much more selective about personal fit. Obviously it varies by firm, but this seems to be the general rule.

My answer applies specifically to Columbia, but I understand it is the same at Harvard (at least logistically, maybe your chances will be slightly better at H).

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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:22 pm

If your predictions are correct on this semester's grades (though you should work as hard as possible to see to it that it isn't the case, as such grades will place you at below median), my advice to you would be to cast a wide net and target the softest markets possible (e.g. NY). As has already been pointed out, smaller branch offices can be difficult to land simply because their programs are smaller. New York, on the other hand, is far more forgiving of mediocre grades. I know of several individuals who struck out at EIP this past cycle due to grades (and likely poor bidding strategy). If you have very compelling reasons for certain markets, by all means, use some bids on those. But you absolutely need a safety net, and the best you can do is NY.

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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:14 pm

JayStang1130 wrote:Thought I would get this thread started.

1H 4P 1st Semester, I expect the same this semester. I was wondering if anyone knows what my chances are at a very small branch of a large firm. Are those harder or easier to get into? Based on the results of EIP last year, some firms have like 10 different cities they "interview" for. Are all these the same interviews? If I wanted to do two smaller cities that the firm has more than one branch, I wouldnt interview twice right?

Thanks!



If you're targeting smaller cities, I suggest you contact that office directly. OCS will bullshit you and tell you not to do so. This advice fucked me so hard. A lot of offices will list a city that they aren't even hiring for, causing you to waste a bid. Or the people doing EIP will be from one of the bigger offices and will not even pay attention to you. I wasted 3 bids on offices that weren't even hiring summer associates, but were listed on the EIP list. And there was one office from Boston that didn't care about anything but the Boston office and was overly hostile to anyone who didn't want to be in Boston.

Also bid NY.

JayStang1130
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby JayStang1130 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:17 am

Thanks for you help!

NY firms it is :) and direct contract with the regional market firms is a great idea, I definitely do not want to waste any bids. Now that I think about it, these smaller offices will likely appreciate the reaching out. On that subject, any suggestions of BigLaw Firms in NY that will give me the best chances of landing a 160k job given below average grades?

conn09
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby conn09 » Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:48 am

JayStang1130 wrote:Thanks for you help!

NY firms it is :) and direct contract with the regional market firms is a great idea, I definitely do not want to waste any bids. Now that I think about it, these smaller offices will likely appreciate the reaching out. On that subject, any suggestions of BigLaw Firms in NY that will give me the best chances of landing a 160k job given below average grades?


Based on where my friends went I'd say Cadwalder, Hughes Hubbard and maybe Skadden based on the sheer size of their class.

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Unemployed
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby Unemployed » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:45 am

conn09 wrote:
JayStang1130 wrote:Thanks for you help!

NY firms it is :) and direct contract with the regional market firms is a great idea, I definitely do not want to waste any bids. Now that I think about it, these smaller offices will likely appreciate the reaching out. On that subject, any suggestions of BigLaw Firms in NY that will give me the best chances of landing a 160k job given below average grades?


Based on where my friends went I'd say Cadwalder, Hughes Hubbard and maybe Skadden based on the sheer size of their class.


Not sure about that.

Total # of 2L SA's 2009 (Skadden, NY): 102
Total # of 2L SA's 2010 (Skadden, NY): 33
Total # of 2L SA's 2011 (Skadden, NY): 39

Maybe next year will be different, but Skadden's size isn't exactly something to count on. According to Nalpdirectory Skadden hired about 85 summer associates firm-wide (domestic only) during the most recent recruiting season. IIRC, they used to hire 225-250 summer associates.

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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:32 am

Unemployed wrote:
conn09 wrote:
JayStang1130 wrote:Thanks for you help!

NY firms it is :) and direct contract with the regional market firms is a great idea, I definitely do not want to waste any bids. Now that I think about it, these smaller offices will likely appreciate the reaching out. On that subject, any suggestions of BigLaw Firms in NY that will give me the best chances of landing a 160k job given below average grades?


Based on where my friends went I'd say Cadwalder, Hughes Hubbard and maybe Skadden based on the sheer size of their class.


Not sure about that.

Total # of 2L SA's 2009 (Skadden, NY): 102
Total # of 2L SA's 2010 (Skadden, NY): 33
Total # of 2L SA's 2011 (Skadden, NY): 39

Maybe next year will be different, but Skadden's size isn't exactly something to count on. According to Nalpdirectory Skadden hired about 85 summer associates firm-wide (domestic only) during the most recent recruiting season. IIRC, they used to hire 225-250 summer associates.

As an incoming Skadden SA I was surprised by this number. Some of the other big NY shops are bringing in significantly more SAs this summer.

legends159
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby legends159 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:52 am

Skadden is more selective now b/c they're being more conservative. They even switched to a full day interview like cravath. Hughes hubbard is a smaller firm that is also quite selective. You should ask OCS for data on past grade cutoffs to figure out which firms are least grade conscious. It won't be on the H/P scale but you can get a general idea based on their gpa cutoffs

imchuckbass58
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:31 pm

legends159 wrote:Skadden is more selective now b/c they're being more conservative. They even switched to a full day interview like cravath. Hughes hubbard is a smaller firm that is also quite selective. You should ask OCS for data on past grade cutoffs to figure out which firms are least grade conscious. It won't be on the H/P scale but you can get a general idea based on their gpa cutoffs


Hughes Hubbard is personality selective, not grade selective. At CLS they take a lot of people who are good interviewers but middle to lower half grade wise. In 2009 (i.e., the year they could most afford to be selective) only 20% of their offers were to Stone Scholars (top 30% after 1L at CLS).

As for other firms I can think of that are not as selective (NY offices, based on CLS data):
-Cadwalader (as mentioned before) but it gets a pretty bad rep from associates
-Dechert (but they no-offered a bunch of people last summer)
-Greenberg Traurig
-Goodwin Procter
-Kaye Scholer
-Latham (but, be careful)
-Milbank
-O'Melveny
-Paul Hastings
-Proskauer (again, some no-offers)
-Sidley Austin

Definitely also bid higher up on the selectivity ladder and see what happens, but layer in a bunch of these to your bid list as well

legends159
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby legends159 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:13 pm

good list.

I'd also look at:

Cahill
Dewey Lebeouf
Kramer Levin
Kirkland Ellis (data -- at least for SLS shows their grade cutoff is low -- could be different for other east coast schools)
Mofo
Orrick
Ropes & Gray
Shearman
Simpson Thacher has higher grade cutoffs but they also value personality and it's worth a shot to bid there
Wilkie Farr
WilmerHale -- very small office so if you connect with interviewer that could take you far

If you're running out of bids I would definitely avoid the V5 b/c they're huge sticklers for grades. But if you do want to bid on a few V5 just to see what happens, aim for skadden and DPW -- s&c and cravath care too much about grades to even give you a callback. Skadden loves HLS so that should help and DPW gives lots of call backs so you have a better chance to wow them.

If you're in NY this summer, I would draft a few cover letters and shoot them out to the firms listed ITT. You might get a callback and offer well before EIW begins which could will put you in an advantage and make you less nervous having a couple of offers in your pocket going into EIW.

JayStang1130
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby JayStang1130 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:33 pm

legends159 wrote:good list.

If you're in NY this summer, I would draft a few cover letters and shoot them out to the firms listed ITT. You might get a callback and offer well before EIW begins which could will put you in an advantage and make you less nervous having a couple of offers in your pocket going into EIW.



What does ITT mean? Sorry I am new at this?

Also, how much does being a URM help assuming getting all P's and 2 H's.

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adameus
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby adameus » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:42 pm

ITT means In this thread.

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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:13 am

JayStang1130 wrote:
legends159 wrote:good list.

If you're in NY this summer, I would draft a few cover letters and shoot them out to the firms listed ITT. You might get a callback and offer well before EIW begins which could will put you in an advantage and make you less nervous having a couple of offers in your pocket going into EIW.



What does ITT mean? Sorry I am new at this?

Also, how much does being a URM help assuming getting all P's and 2 H's.


What kind of URM?

If black, then it helps a lot. If not black, then not as much.

JayStang1130
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby JayStang1130 » Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:30 am

Black, how much is a lot?

Could a black student with only 2H's apply to top firms? Any suggestions?

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GeePee
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Re: HLS EIP 2011

Postby GeePee » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:28 pm

Anyone have any word on firms that are "bid high, or not at all" at HLS?




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