Reneging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

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Anonymous User
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Reneging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:50 am

My 1L summer job search has been consuming most of my time, and after declining a few PI jobs in hopes that I'd land a big firm job (hail mary, I know), I got real and just accepted an unpaid volunteer job that I got on the spot at an interview.

Literally as I was leaving the building, I get a call from one of the firms I applied to way back when, telling me that I have an interview with them. Now I know it's only an interview, but they've scheduled it for the last week of this month.

My question is whether I can flip flop on my acceptance at the volunteer job, or if this will negatively impact my school/classmates. The firm job is paid, has the possibility of being asked back for 2L summer and beyond, and is a large, reputable firm. The other job is a prestigious and sought after one so I don't want to sound ungrateful, but it's unpaid and not the kind of law I want to do. They want me to go in for fingerprinting and form-filling soon, so I feel like I can't sit on this much longer. Can I reneg on my acceptance right away if I want to go for the firm job? Can I wait and see if I get the call back at the firm and then reneg? Should I just suck it up and stick with the job I have, without the benefits of pay and a 2L job lined up?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Apr 03, 2011 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mths
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby mths » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:My 1L summer job search has been consuming most of my time, and after declining a few PI jobs in hopes that I'd land a big firm job (hail mary, I know), I got real and just accepted a government that I got on the spot at an interview.

Literally as I was leaving the building, I get a call from one of the big firms I applied to way back when, telling me that I have an interview with them. Now I know it's only an interview, but they've scheduled it for the last week of this month. I'm imagining there will be a call-back interview, so it could be an entire month before I would have heard back from them. I regret not asking for more time to sit on my decision with the DA, but in this case it probably wouldn't have helped.

My question is whether I can flip flop on my acceptance at the government job, or if this will negatively impact my school/classmates. The firm job is paid, has the possibility of being asked back for 2L summer and beyond, and is a large, reputable firm. The government job is a prestigious and sought after one so I don't want to sound ungrateful, but crim law isn't my thing and it's unpaid. They want me to go in for fingerprinting and form-filling soon, so I feel like I can't sit on this much longer. Can I reneg on my acceptance right away if I want to go for the firm job? Can I wait and see if I get the call back at the firm and then reneg? Should I just suck it up and stick with the government job, without the benefits of pay and a 2L job lined up?

You should talk to career services

Renzo
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Renzo » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:02 am

You should talk to the firm about splitting should you get the offer.

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:09 am

Renzo wrote:You should talk to the firm about splitting should you get the offer.


I wasn't aware 1Ls could split? In any case the firm job is several hours away :-\

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:My 1L summer job search has been consuming most of my time, and after declining a few PI jobs in hopes that I'd land a big firm job (hail mary, I know), I got real and just accepted a government that I got on the spot at an interview.

Literally as I was leaving the building, I get a call from one of the big firms I applied to way back when, telling me that I have an interview with them. Now I know it's only an interview, but they've scheduled it for the last week of this month. I'm imagining there will be a call-back interview, so it could be an entire month before I would have heard back from them. I regret not asking for more time to sit on my decision with the DA, but in this case it probably wouldn't have helped.

My question is whether I can flip flop on my acceptance at the government job, or if this will negatively impact my school/classmates. The firm job is paid, has the possibility of being asked back for 2L summer and beyond, and is a large, reputable firm. The government job is a prestigious and sought after one so I don't want to sound ungrateful, but crim law isn't my thing and it's unpaid. They want me to go in for fingerprinting and form-filling soon, so I feel like I can't sit on this much longer. Can I reneg on my acceptance right away if I want to go for the firm job? Can I wait and see if I get the call back at the firm and then reneg? Should I just suck it up and stick with the government job, without the benefits of pay and a 2L job lined up?


Wait. So they haven't offered you a job. Or, even a call back interview? This is about getting rid of a job you have locked down so you can go to a regular interview...

I second talking to career services... but If its prestigeous gov't work itll provide you with a different experience, and \certainly won't hurt your 2l summer job chances. But yeah, the pay thing sux.

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:27 am

Yeah the firm hasn't offered me a job. My dream scenario is to hold onto the bird i have in the hand until I absolutely have the better bird in the bush and then let the first one go, but if that's selfish I'm also considering just going for the second one. I mean it's only an interview, but it's a fellowship so that means they looked at my grades, my writing sample, and called my references before they even offered me the interview. I figure that means if I don't blow the interview I'm good, and since this is anonymous, I will say that I'm pretty confident I interview well. But you are right, they're probably interviewing a lot of qualified applicants and there are a lot of people who are dying to get that unpaid gov't job

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mths
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby mths » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:Yeah the firm hasn't offered me a job. My dream scenario is to hold onto the bird i have in the hand until I absolutely have the better bird in the bush and then let the first one go, but if that's selfish I'm also considering just going for the second one. I mean it's only an interview, but it's a fellowship so that means they looked at my grades, my writing sample, and called my references before they even offered me the interview. I figure that means if I don't blow the interview I'm good, and since this is anonymous, I will say that I'm pretty confident I interview well. But you are right, they're probably interviewing a lot of qualified applicants and there are a lot of people who are dying to get that unpaid gov't job

that's not even the point

it's just really bad form to renege on a job offer, especially if they're counting on you to start soon since they've probably rejected everyone else

JethroTull
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby JethroTull » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:39 am

ITE, you have to do what's best for you. Old fashioned rules of decorum have flown out the window, along with all the poor Lathamed souls pushed out by greedy partners. Take the interview, delay any further steps of commitment with the DA, if you get the offer then politely explain to the DA (they'll understand) and take the biglaw job. I'd say something like, "I've been given a great opportunity that has a better chance of leading to full time employment and will help me pay off my student loans with what I earn this summer." No lawyer won't understand that. These 1L DA jobs usually have scores of people, so it's not like a rapist will be set free b/c you turned them down. If you don't get the offer from biglaw, then there's always OCI.

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:59 am

Renegging at my school among my peers has become the practice rather than the exception. I know at least five people with job offers who are looking at other employers. You keep getting and accepting offers and upgrading as you want. This is a survival of the fittest environment, you cannot decline any offer of legal employment you get, because it might be the only one you get. For that reason I have no problem with renegging, even though perhaps I would have a job if people did not do it. In this game you are either going to play it or be played, so do what is best for you.

Your employer can cancel your offer at any time, and correspondingly you can do the same. It's not your fault that legal employers do not all hire during a certain period.

Sup Kid
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Sup Kid » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Anonymous User wrote:Renegging at my school among my peers has become the practice rather than the exception...For that reason I have no problem with renegging

The correct word is "Reneging" NOT "Renegging"

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:25 am

I've been told it doesn't matter as much during 1L, but you don't even have a second job offer . . . why risk it?

imchuckbass58
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby imchuckbass58 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:50 am

I agree you should do what's best for you, but it's not even clear that reneging is best for you. You don't even have the firm job. You don't even have a callback. At this point, your odds of landing the firm job are well less than 50%. If you don't get it, you will be SoL - the DA won't want you back, and you'll have a very hard time finding something else this late. I know the pay is tough to give up, but running the risk of not having a 1L job is in my mind much, much worse than settling for not getting paid.

I would just stick with the DA gig if I were you.

2LLLL
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby 2LLLL » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:40 am

If you're committed to dropping the government job for the firm job, then do it AFTER you have an offer from the firm. The first job is going to be upset with you regardless of what you do, the fact that they might be a little more pissed at you after going through the form and fingerprinting process doesn't outweigh the need to avoid the risk of reneging now and ending up with nothing. When you do it, be gracious, quick, and talk about your crushing debt and the need to make money. Maybe throw in an "offer I couldn't refuse" line if you're a Godfather fan.

I would make sure that there are no possible connections between the two employers. I've heard stories about the spurned employer calling the new employer, which subsequently rescinded its offer. Maybe don't be specific about where you're going if you do renege.

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Cravin
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Cravin » Tue Mar 08, 2011 10:53 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Have some honor and politely inform the firm that you're committed for this summer but would love to meet with them in the fall about a 2L gig. You wouldn't like it if the DA just rescinded your offer because someone with a shinier resume came along, so you shouldn't do the same thing.



It saddens me that this is the only reasonable advice so far. But since the question was already asked, I'm guessing the "honor" in following through on a committment may not be that important to the OP. In which case, consider this:

Risk - Imagine not having a summer gig. And then imagine that next time around while all your peers are describing the great experience they had, you're left trying to smoothly explain how you f'ed it away.

Reward - An amount of money that will most likely be meaningless to you in 10 years.

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Borhas » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:25 am

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:Have some honor and politely inform the firm that you're committed for this summer but would love to meet with them in the fall about a 2L gig. You wouldn't like it if the DA just rescinded your offer because someone with a shinier resume came along, so you shouldn't do the same thing.


ehh this is the ethical thing to do, but this guy and the DA's office relationship isn't exactly equal, and their loss would be insignificant to his gain.

-they don't pay him
-they have wait lists of other qualified applicants
-DA's are still generally hiring people
-1L interns don't really have that much responsibility

so while I think it's good for him to honor his commitment, it wouldn't really be the exact same thing for the DA to hire somebody else instead of him.

I think he should just explain the predicament to the DA's office as soon as possible. Just be sincere and hopefully the other guy on the other end of the line isn't a complete dick.

The worst thing to do would be to not tell them anything about the situation, interview with the firm and then just drop the DA's office as soon as you hear back.
Last edited by Borhas on Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:28 am

Stick with your damn word. What the hell is wrong with people these days?

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 11:41 am

Cute. Yes, we all watched Scarface. But look at the other side: we are paying up to $200k to be here, bleeding, sweating, and crying for 15 hours or so a day and slaving away to get a summer job that doesn't pay. It's a bit offensive how little power we have, and how many of these unpaid jobs don't give 1Ls the courtesy of 28 days to accept because they know they have all the leverage. The only "honorable" solution you are proposing is for scared 1Ls like me to either just take the first thing they get, no matter their qualifications, or else turn down the only offers they are getting, risking not getting anything at all. I think it'd be "honorable" to release hiring decisions in a prescribed period, so 1Ls have even a portion of the choice employers get. Since these jobs have hundreds and hundreds of applicants and gets to collect all our info and make an informed decision, while each applicant is only getting a couple (if even that) of job offers and is forced to accept them or reject them as they come, i don't exactly feel like I'm bullying anyone here. The only thing I've done wrong so far was to not ask for more time to consider, but there's no way they would have given me an entire month, so that's a moot point.

The pay is huge because I, like most of us, are on loans and don't know how I'm going to fund a summer making $10/hr less than a barista at Starbucks. Regardless of pay though, the big payoff is the possibly of leading to a 2L job that can lead to my permanent job, and is something that'd I'm aiming for in the long haul, biglaw.

What I'd like to do is hold onto my offer until I've secured the other job like what Jethro and the person after him said, but like Borhas points out that seems less ok than assuming the risk now cause I'm screwing my classmates out of interviews. The only thing is telling them my plan is essentially giving up the job before I even have the next one. What I'm worried about is:

(1) somehow burning bridges that could get back to me like one poster said, including with my CSO, and I'll just put this out there, the gig is the DA's in a major city.

or equally as important,

(2) having the employer blackball my peers/school. I've heard of judges blackballing an entire school because one student reneged. Because of the imbalance of power I don't feel bad for the employer, but I would feel terrible if I harmed my peers. If I go talk to my CSO about this, they will undoubtedly tell me not to reneg b/c it'd be against their own interests to give any other advice. I'd also feel bad for my CSO, who basically hooked this job up.

xyzbca
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby xyzbca » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Cute. Yes, we all watched Scarface. But look at the other side: we are paying up to $200k to be here, bleeding, sweating, and crying for 15 hours or so a day and slaving away to get a summer job that doesn't pay. It's a bit offensive how little power we have, and how many of these unpaid jobs don't give 1Ls the courtesy of 28 days to accept because they know they have all the leverage. The only "honorable" solution you are proposing is for scared 1Ls like me to either just take the first thing they get, no matter their qualifications, or else turn down the only offers they are getting, risking not getting anything at all. I think it'd be "honorable" to release hiring decisions in a prescribed period, so 1Ls have even a portion of the choice employers get. Since these jobs have hundreds and hundreds of applicants and gets to collect all our info and make an informed decision, while each applicant is only getting a couple (if even that) of job offers and is forced to accept them or reject them as they come, i don't exactly feel like I'm bullying anyone here. The only thing I've done wrong so far was to not ask for more time to consider, but there's no way they would have given me an entire month, so that's a moot point.

The pay is huge because I, like most of us, are on loans and don't know how I'm going to fund a summer making $10/hr less than a barista at Starbucks. Regardless of pay though, the big payoff is the possibly of leading to a 2L job that can lead to my permanent job, and is something that'd I'm aiming for in the long haul, biglaw.

What I'd like to do is hold onto my offer until I've secured the other job like what Jethro and the person after him said, but like Borhas points out that seems less ok than assuming the risk now cause I'm screwing my classmates out of interviews. The only thing is telling them my plan is essentially giving up the job before I even have the next one. What I'm worried about is:

(1) somehow burning bridges that could get back to me like one poster said, including with my CSO, and I'll just put this out there, the gig is the DA's in a major city.

or equally as important,

(2) having the employer blackball my peers/school. I've heard of judges blackballing an entire school because one student reneged. Because of the imbalance of power I don't feel bad for the employer, but I would feel terrible if I harmed my peers. If I go talk to my CSO about this, they will undoubtedly tell me not to reneg b/c it'd be against their own interests to give any other advice. I'd also feel bad for my CSO, who basically hooked this job up.


Nice rationalization.

You have to do what you have to do. Just be a man about it and own it. You made a commitment and now you want to break it. It really is that simple.

If this was a firm job you were backing out on it wouldn't bother me so much b/c firms have shown they only look out for themselves. I'm yet to hear of a government employer rescinding an offer b/c a better candidate came along....

TheStrand
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby TheStrand » Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:41 pm

Jesus. First with the people who want to ED to a school then continue applying and putting down deposits at others and now with the people who accept job offers and then back out. Keep your word. It's just that simple.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:46 pm

TheStrand wrote:Jesus. First with the people who want to ED to a school then continue applying and putting down deposits at others and now with the people who accept job offers and then back out. Keep your word. It's just that simple.

No it really isn't.

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Kohinoor
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Kohinoor » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:51 pm

TheStrand wrote:Jesus. First with the people who want to ED to a school then continue applying and putting down deposits at others and now with the people who accept job offers and then back out. Keep your word. It's just that simple.

cr. When the going got rough, firms stood by their summers and first years. We owe them at least this much.

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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Kohinoor wrote:
TheStrand wrote:Jesus. First with the people who want to ED to a school then continue applying and putting down deposits at others and now with the people who accept job offers and then back out. Keep your word. It's just that simple.

cr. When the going got rough, firms stood by their summers and first years. We owe them at least this much.


Latham. Refuted. Also you haven't addressed the disparity of choice issue everyone is bringing up: Why do employers get to gather all their applicants and take their sweet time picking the best one when 1Ls are freaking out and trying to study? Why can't 1Ls have that same choice if they have the qualifications? We're like fisherman in The Pearl.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:02 pm

if you are getting fingerprinted and going through that whole rigamarole, then my guess is your offer is almost certainly still contingent--on ur passing the background check/security clearance. in that respect, i think it's at least slightly less morally suspect to keep moving forward with both processes--the security clearance process, and the firm interview process, and simply hope that the firm interview process ends (successfully) before the gov clearance process does, and then you can just 'retract' your application.

either way, go on the interview. also, either way, it's a 1L job, both will be fine vis-a-vis landing a 2L summer SA gig.

BeenDidThat
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby BeenDidThat » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Kohinoor wrote:
TheStrand wrote:Jesus. First with the people who want to ED to a school then continue applying and putting down deposits at others and now with the people who accept job offers and then back out. Keep your word. It's just that simple.

cr. When the going got rough, firms stood by their summers and first years. We owe them at least this much.


Latham. Refuted. Also you haven't addressed the disparity of choice issue everyone is bringing up: Why do employers get to gather all their applicants and take their sweet time picking the best one when 1Ls are freaking out and trying to study? Why can't 1Ls have that same choice if they have the qualifications? We're like fisherman in The Pearl.


He was being sarcastic.

You can take your sweet time, too. OP accepted on the spot. That was his decision. You can sit on offers, but once you accept them, you should stick to your word.

As to the firms "reneging" on their offers...they offer you a position with the firm, which you can accept. But they retain the option to fire you, like most employers do, unless you have some sort of contractually guaranteed time of employment. That's not reneging. Continued employment is not guaranteed by the contract.

Is there a power differential? No shit. If you can't get over power differentials and holding the poor folk who agree to things when they have less power accountable, you might want to look into another profession.

I love these infantile rationalizations of being a two-faced liar. But I've already said what I think is proper, and I think you'll find that quite a few people in the legal community hold people to a standard similar to that which I use.

xyzbca
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Re: Renegging on my acceptance of 1L Summer Job Offer

Postby xyzbca » Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:16 pm

BeenDidThat wrote:I love these infantile rationalizations of being a two-faced liar. But I've already said what I think is proper, and I think you'll find that quite a few people in the legal community hold people to a standard similar to that which I use.


"But, but....I have no leverage here. I chose to take out $200k in loans and sweat, bleed, and cry through law school. Next I'll be forging my unofficial transcript at OCI b/c that's what I have to do to get a job...."

I completely agree with you, BDT. I don't have a problem with OP breaking his/her word but the poster should just own it instead of being such a pu$$y about it.




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