Doing nothing for 1L summer?

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:18 am

Right, because employers can tell how much 'research' you've done.


Yes, your cover letters and interviews demonstrate how much research you've done.

Army2Law
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Army2Law » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:20 am

Veyron wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Veyron wrote:For me, it was that I had a dream job for 1L summer, knew I was the perfect applicant for that job and made it happen. Your strategy might be fine if someone doesn't care where they end up. In this case, it was an employer that I would be happy to work for FT at some point in the future.

I get what you're saying, but you have to realize this is not the experience for a typical law student.


Why not?


+1 to what Veyron said. I only applied to 4 employers and got a solid job. Shotgunning to random firms is worthless because you'll have no idea what they're looking for and end up getting thrown straight in the garbage for your generic cover letter.

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rayiner
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:35 am

Veyron wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kazootey wrote:I applied for a job with the County Attorney last Friday, but so far this week I have heard nothing. Should I call them and ask what is up or just wait it out?


Everything I have read from people currently in law school says you should be spamming your ass off trying to find a job. If you applied to just one or only a handful, you are doing it wrong.


Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.


TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.

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drdolittle
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby drdolittle » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:39 am

rayiner wrote:Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.

Why is this? Shitty econ as usual, or is there something special about IP that delays the hiring process?

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:39 am

rayiner wrote:
Veyron wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kazootey wrote:I applied for a job with the County Attorney last Friday, but so far this week I have heard nothing. Should I call them and ask what is up or just wait it out?


Everything I have read from people currently in law school says you should be spamming your ass off trying to find a job. If you applied to just one or only a handful, you are doing it wrong.


Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.


TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.


Explain then my results as a non-top 10% non-ip person? Penn's superiority JK?

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thesealocust
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby thesealocust » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:41 am

Veyron wrote:Explain then my results as a non-top 10% non-ip person? Penn's superiority JK?


The plural of anecdote is not statistic. There are more than 49,000 law students in the world for every Veyron. Your plan was not stupid, but it is not good advice for an overwhelming majority of the other 50K or so law students in the country.

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:47 am

thesealocust wrote:
Veyron wrote:Explain then my results as a non-top 10% non-ip person? Penn's superiority JK?


The plural of anecdote is not statistic. There are more than 49,000 law students in the world for every Veyron. Your plan was not stupid, but it is not good advice for an overwhelming majority of the other 50K or so law students in the country.


If it isn't good advice, what makes it not stupid. Its not just me who advocates this approach btw but rather many professional career coaches.

09042014
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:01 am

Whether or not Veyrons advice is good or not in general, it's definitely not good for someone on march 4th. It's time to take whatever the fuck you can get.

If I were to do my search over again. I'd wait to send to firms until after grades because they all focused on my TTT UGPA. And I'd hit federal jobs early.

Now I just want anything that pays 10/hr to cover rent.

Try going to random corporate webpages in your city. A lot of them have legal internships that aren't really posted anywhere. I hope they aren't vapor-jobs.

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funkyturds
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby funkyturds » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:42 am

I thought Veyron was being sarcastic this whole thread...

keg411
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby keg411 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 10:15 am

Also, most 1L's don't have a dream job... or their dream job doesn't hire 1L's. Yes, you can potentially succeed the way Veyron did in January, but not in March. OP, you pretty much need to apply to every single job you can find (paid or unpaid).

Our career services said that it was really VERY important to do legal work the summer after 1L.

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rayiner
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby rayiner » Sat Mar 05, 2011 2:06 pm

Veyron wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Veyron wrote:
bk1 wrote:
Everything I have read from people currently in law school says you should be spamming your ass off trying to find a job. If you applied to just one or only a handful, you are doing it wrong.


Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.


TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.


Explain then my results as a non-top 10% non-ip person? Penn's superiority JK?


Economy picking up since this time last year? Pure skill on your part? Luck?

Not having a decent summer job can be fatal at OCI. You need to target those ideal firms *and* apply like crazy everywhere else b/c you do not want to get caught with your pants down.

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:09 pm

[/quote]

Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.[/quote]

TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.[/quote]

Explain then my results as a non-top 10% non-ip person? Penn's superiority JK?[/quote]

Economy picking up since this time last year? Pure skill on your part? Luck?

Not having a decent summer job can be fatal at OCI. You need to target those ideal firms *and* apply like crazy everywhere else b/c you do not want to get caught with your pants down.[/quote]

From your lips to G-d's ears.

get it to x
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby get it to x » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:23 pm

OP, it's important to do some form of legal work during the 1L summer primarily because for OCI purposes it provides an easy topic of conversation during interviews ("Oh you worked for XYZ County Court judge...how did you like that experience?"). It gives them something different to talk about other than which core classes you enjoyed or why you bombed this/that class. The more prestigious position you can find the better as with most competitive endeavors, but most 1L's end up doing some sort of unpaid public interest work or interning with a judge at a variety of levels. Second, it's good to get out there and get some pragmatic experience. You may love the theoretical element law school classes get out there and realize you can't stand practice and want to go into academia or figure out that transactional work is boring and litigation is something you want exposure to next summer. Not doing anything law related deprives you of both opportunities.

Anonymous User
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:42 pm

rayiner wrote:
Veyron wrote:
bk1 wrote:
kazootey wrote:I applied for a job with the County Attorney last Friday, but so far this week I have heard nothing. Should I call them and ask what is up or just wait it out?


Everything I have read from people currently in law school says you should be spamming your ass off trying to find a job. If you applied to just one or only a handful, you are doing it wrong.


Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.


TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.


I applied to 2 top gov PI positions and researched the fuck out of them. I landed one, accepted it immediately (my first choice) and received an interview with the other, which I turned down.

Only recommended for people at HYS with a really fitting background, though.

I think I spent about 10-15 hours total in terms of cover letter development and interview prep. But hey, it worked.

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:47 pm


Silence 0L, you should apply only to a few employers to which you are perfectly suited, research the FUCK out of them, and land a job without expending a bunch of needless effort.


TINTCR.

Top 10% IP people can spam like crazy and still not get a job until late in the game.[/quote]

I applied to 2 top gov PI positions and researched the fuck out of them. I landed one, accepted it immediately (my first choice) and received an interview with the other, which I turned down.

Only recommended for people at HYS with a really fitting background, though.[/quote]


I think he means, HYSP. Crazy anti P trolling in this post :wink:

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DeSimone
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby DeSimone » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:47 pm

Two words: study abroad

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:31 pm

solidsnake wrote:It reflects both poor work ethic and laziness, and I would ding you in the first 30 seconds of the interview.


THIS.

Seriously, an interviewer doesn't give a shit about how bad the economy is. In fact it is better from his perspective because its a labor buyer's market. They want the best. If you're not the best that interviewer sees, you won't get the job. If you have nothing, how are you going to answer this: "Why didn't you do anything?" Your answer is going to suck no matter what it is.

CALL FEDERAL JUDGES, ask how to apply for an internship, then do it. Don't forget magistrates. Do state judges too. Who doesn't like free labor? Paid is great, but internships are better than nothing. And an internship with a federal judge is better than some bullshit paid law clerk position as some random firm. As a 1L you're a file clerk if you work for a firm and its paid. For a judge you might actually learn something.

Anonymous User
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:57 pm

DeSimone wrote:Two words: study abroad

no

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:08 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
solidsnake wrote:It reflects both poor work ethic and laziness, and I would ding you in the first 30 seconds of the interview.


THIS.

Seriously, an interviewer doesn't give a shit about how bad the economy is. In fact it is better from his perspective because its a labor buyer's market. They want the best. If you're not the best that interviewer sees, you won't get the job. If you have nothing, how are you going to answer this: "Why didn't you do anything?" Your answer is going to suck no matter what it is.

CALL FEDERAL JUDGES, ask how to apply for an internship, then do it. Don't forget magistrates. Do state judges too. Who doesn't like free labor? Paid is great, but internships are better than nothing. And an internship with a federal judge is better than some bullshit paid law clerk position as some random firm. As a 1L you're a file clerk if you work for a firm and its paid. For a judge you might actually learn something.


While no one actually cares much about what you do this summer, its a bit foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA unless one wants to go into academic or clerk at a high level.
Last edited by Veyron on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:26 am

Veyron wrote:While no one actually cares much about what you do this summer, its a bit foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA unless one wants to go into accademic or clerk at a high level.


The fuck? It's a lot foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA in any context. A judicial internship, at any level, is not a credential that will be relevant in the slightest to academic or clerkship job seeking.

sullidop
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby sullidop » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:32 am

thesealocust wrote:
Veyron wrote:While no one actually cares much about what you do this summer, its a bit foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA unless one wants to go into accademic or clerk at a high level.


The fuck? It's a lot foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA in any context. A judicial internship, at any level, is not a credential that will be relevant in the slightest to academic or clerkship job seeking.


It's damn near impossible to land any decent clerkship without having interned with a judge beforehand and pushing that judge to throw your name around.

sullidop
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby sullidop » Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:40 am

get it to x wrote:OP, it's important to do some form of legal work during the 1L summer primarily because for OCI purposes it provides an easy topic of conversation during interviews ("Oh you worked for XYZ County Court judge...how did you like that experience?"). It gives them something different to talk about other than which core classes you enjoyed or why you bombed this/that class. The more prestigious position you can find the better as with most competitive endeavors, but most 1L's end up doing some sort of unpaid public interest work or interning with a judge at a variety of levels. Second, it's good to get out there and get some pragmatic experience. You may love the theoretical element law school classes get out there and realize you can't stand practice and want to go into academia or figure out that transactional work is boring and litigation is something you want exposure to next summer. Not doing anything law related deprives you of both opportunities.


This is correct. There are three things you get out of a 1L position: 1) experience that shows you can grasp the big picture even while doing menial tasks; 2) anecdote that shows you're entrepreneurial; 3) a writing sample (least important).

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:12 am

thesealocust wrote:
Veyron wrote:While no one actually cares much about what you do this summer, its a bit foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA unless one wants to go into accademic or clerk at a high level.


The fuck? It's a lot foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA in any context. A judicial internship, at any level, is not a credential that will be relevant in the slightest to academic or clerkship job seeking.


I didn't say SA, I said "bullshit paid law clerk position." I wasn't talking about formal SA programs. Straw man arguments are disingenuous. I was talking about people contacting firms to see if they hire 1Ls to be clerks and choosing $12/hr over interning for a judge, which is what the thread seemed to be talking about - shotgun job applications and taking whoever bites. That context provided, I stand by my point, and in fact I did not argue "working for a judge is better than an SA in any context," nor do I believe that. Attention to detail is important for lawyers.

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Veyron
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby Veyron » Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:41 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
thesealocust wrote:
Veyron wrote:While no one actually cares much about what you do this summer, its a bit foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA unless one wants to go into accademic or clerk at a high level.


The fuck? It's a lot foolish to argue that working for a judge is better than an SA in any context. A judicial internship, at any level, is not a credential that will be relevant in the slightest to academic or clerkship job seeking.


I didn't say SA, I said "bullshit paid law clerk position." I wasn't talking about formal SA programs. Straw man arguments are disingenuous. I was talking about people contacting firms to see if they hire 1Ls to be clerks and choosing $12/hr over interning for a judge, which is what the thread seemed to be talking about - shotgun job applications and taking whoever bites. That context provided, I stand by my point, and in fact I did not argue "working for a judge is better than an SA in any context," nor do I believe that. Attention to detail is important for lawyers.


some bullshit paid law clerk position as some random firm


If you (a) work for a firm (b) over the summer and (c) are paid, you are an SA no matter what your title is.

That being said, I like the snark. I see great potential in you new poster dood. Indeed, your style is, dare I say, Veyron like?

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thesealocust
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Re: Doing nothing for 1L summer?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:34 pm

sullidop wrote:It's damn near impossible to land any decent clerkship without having interned with a judge beforehand and pushing that judge to throw your name around.


This is 100% false. Objectively wrong, proven so by studies schools have done and not merely anecdote.




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