Philly biglaw from Villanova and Temple. Forum

[BEAST_mode]

Just how bad are the prospects? I've heard that Temple seems to offer slightly better chances, but that all things being equal, top 10% at both is basically a requirement to even be considered. What is the truth behind this? Was it this way before the recent turbulence in the market? How about midlaw?

[A'nold]

If "beast mode" refers to Marshawn Lynch, you will be my new favorite poster.

[Big Shrimpin]

OP, PM me for a substantive answer to your question.

[A'nold]

OP, PM me for a substantive answer to your question.

Oh I see how it is, I'm not "substantive" enough for you, eh?

[beach_terror]

Just how bad are the prospects? I've heard that Temple seems to offer slightly better chances, but that all things being equal, top 10% at both is basically a requirement to even be considered. What is the truth behind this? Was it this way before the recent turbulence in the market? How about midlaw?

2Ls in the top 20% at Villanova got interviews and subsequent offers for biglaw SA jobs. Top 10% is probably a lock, but the top 20% are at least in the running it seems.

[Big Shrimpin]

OP, PM me for a substantive answer to your question.

Oh I see how it is, I'm not "substantive" enough for you, eh?

Oh A'nold - what I meant to say was that I could give OP advice about the situation, notwithstanding all the "retake" answers that were surely imminent. WRT your preceding comment about OPs username, BIG SHRIMPIN, J., concurs.

[A'nold]

OP, PM me for a substantive answer to your question.

Oh I see how it is, I'm not "substantive" enough for you, eh?

Oh A'nold - what I meant to say was that I could give OP advice about the situation, notwithstanding all the "retake" answers that were surely imminent. WRT your preceding comment about OPs username, BIG SHRIMPIN, J., concurs.

Cool, I am in the majority (for once)!

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 1L from Nova, so this is all hearsay, but...

I've been told that top 20% get interviews, but after that, it's totally up to you. A lot of the Philly Biglaw firms have strong connections to Nova/Temple (Rutgers-Camden too, but not as much), and they seem to expect some associates each summer. However, I've heard that there have been a fair amount of no-offers too, which i guess is expected ITE.

Right now I'm somewhere in the top 10%, but I have no idea what that means for this summer, let alone next.

[Anonymous User]

Just how bad are the prospects? I've heard that Temple seems to offer slightly better chances, but that all things being equal, top 10% at both is basically a requirement to even be considered. What is the truth behind this? Was it this way before the recent turbulence in the market? How about midlaw?

2Ls in the top 20% at Villanova got interviews and subsequent offers for biglaw SA jobs. Top 10% is probably a lock, but the top 20% are at least in the running it seems.

Can we get some hard numbers? How many are SAs at Dechert, Morgan, drinker, pepper, and Duane?

Attending another T2 Philly school I find the stats provided completely untrue. Top 20% got interviews but very few got offers. Top 3% wansnt even a lock for anything.

Top 3% wasn't a lock? I'm a 2L at Villanova, and I know others who attend both Nova and Temple who were scattered throughout the top 20%. From the first-hand and second-hand info that I've gathered, top 3% from Nova or Temple is definitely a lock in the Philadephia area. In fact, this is true even for absolute aspies (my first- and second-hand knowledge confirms this). That being said, I feel bad for the Rutgers-Camden students who finished in the top 3% without any offers.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

.

[BEAST_mode]

Stupid Question Alert:

Philly midlaw firms. What are we talking in terms of starting salary?

[MBskier]

.

[beach_terror]

Just to clarify, this discussion includes large Wilmington firms correct?

[Anonymous User]

Here are some stats from rutgers. If you plan to attend temple, nova or ru for big law. You should attend the cheapest one and drop out if you are not top 20%.
If people from temple and nova could provide stats that would be helpful. These numbers are on the low side bc I have not tried to see where people are working.

Dechert 1 non URM 1 URM
Morgan Lewis 1
Pepper Hamilton 1
Drinker Biddle 1
Ballard Spar 1 URM
Fox Rothschild 1 URM
White and Williams 1
Bressler amery Ross 1
Nj mid law 1
Archer and greiner 1

On a side note anyone Philly big law bound hear from their firms?

I'm a 1L at Rutgers, so this was very interesting. It seems like a lot of these firms are plucking up a student each, maybe to keep relationships up with Rutgers. I wonder if they took more than one from Temple or Nova? Also, the firms notably missing to me are Cozen, Duane Morris, and Blank Rome. Did they even come to Rutgers for OCI? I heard there are a couple Philly biglaws who don't come to Rutgers.

[Anonymous User]

Also - I am the 1L Rutgers from the last post. Research I have done indicates that Saul Ewing pays $110, White & Williams ~$85k, and Marshall Dennehey ~$75k. I would think these would fall square in the category of Philly midlaw. The last two are low because they are insurance defense firms, which are always the lowest payers. This is not on firsthand authority, so if anyone has more accurate info, feel free to correct me.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Not the previous RU poster, but there is a VERY high chance that I made first semester High Honors based on last year's numbers... do you think if you want BigLaw/Midlaw (even if it's NJ biglaw/midlaw like Lowenstein/Cole Schotz/Archer etc.) that it's better to transfer to a higher ranked school? I like Rutgers, but I don't want to "waste" my grades.

Also, I'm kind of skeptical that Temple/Nova did that much better. Especially since you hear of T14 people in the top 1/4 striking out, I can't imagine that Temple/Nova are better for BigLaw then, say, GULC.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 1L at Rutgers, so this was very interesting. It seems like a lot of these firms are plucking up a student each, maybe to keep relationships up with Rutgers. I wonder if they took more than one from Temple or Nova? Also, the firms notably missing to me are Cozen, Duane Morris, and Blank Rome. Did they even come to Rutgers for OCI? I heard there are a couple Philly biglaws who don't come to Rutgers.

Blank came and I know of at least one offer but it was declined.
Cozen came and same situation as blank.
Duane Morris did a resume drop and gave out at least two callbacks. Not sure about offers.

Also like I said before, these numbers are definitely lower than they actually are.

Hope you made first year honors.

Previous Rutgers 1L here: Thanks, that's good to know. Honors didn't come out yet, but I'm in good shape. Do you know what the cutoff was for 1L high honors last year?

[Anonymous User]

Not the previous RU poster, but there is a VERY high chance that I made first semester High Honors based on last year's numbers... do you think if you want BigLaw/Midlaw (even if it's NJ biglaw/midlaw like Lowenstein/Cole Schotz/Archer etc.) that it's better to transfer to a higher ranked school? I like Rutgers, but I don't want to "waste" my grades.

Also, I'm kind of skeptical that Temple/Nova did that much better. Especially since you hear of T14 people in the top 1/4 striking out, I can't imagine that Temple/Nova are better for BigLaw then, say, GULC.

I believe Temple and Nova did better. Last released data (class of 2009) shows about 16% of Nova and Temple went to work for NLJ250 firms and 9% at Rutgers-Camden). Also, go to any of these Philly & Wilmington firms' websites and search by law school. Every one has significantly more Temple & Nova grads working there than Rutgers Camden. I don't believe those schools produce more grads, so why else the discrepancy. This is even more true in Wilmington. (Where firms like Morris Nichols start at $145k - right in line with Philly biglaw). All the Wilmington firms do OCI at Nova & Temple, and almost none come to Rutgers, which is the same distance away for them.

[MBskier]

.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Not the previous RU poster, but there is a VERY high chance that I made first semester High Honors based on last year's numbers... do you think if you want BigLaw/Midlaw (even if it's NJ biglaw/midlaw like Lowenstein/Cole Schotz/Archer etc.) that it's better to transfer to a higher ranked school? I like Rutgers, but I don't want to "waste" my grades.

Also, I'm kind of skeptical that Temple/Nova did that much better. Especially since you hear of T14 people in the top 1/4 striking out, I can't imagine that Temple/Nova are better for BigLaw then, say, GULC.

I believe Temple and Nova did better. Last released data (class of 2009) shows about 16% of Nova and Temple went to work for NLJ250 firms and 9% at Rutgers-Camden). Also, go to any of these Philly & Wilmington firms' websites and search by law school. Every one has significantly more Temple & Nova grads working there than Rutgers Camden. I don't believe those schools produce more grads, so why else the discrepancy. This is even more true in Wilmington. (Where firms like Morris Nichols start at $145k - right in line with Philly biglaw). All the Wilmington firms do OCI at Nova & Temple, and almost none come to Rutgers, which is the same distance away for them.

Take a better look at those charts. Many more RU grads went to clerkships and some of them then on to nlj250 firms. The numbers are closer than you think.

All the Wilmington firms came here. Not sure where you heard otherwise.

As far as the numbers at firms RU used to have much smaller classes. Not sure how large temple and nova currently are but rutgers is a little over 200.

If you want Philly biglaw I would choose temple if the prices were the same. If you pay sticker at any of them especially nova with dreams of big law you are fairly delusional. I chose rutgers because it was the cheapest of the three after the scholarships offered at the others.

I am the poster you just quoted. Didn’t know the Wilmington firms came to Rutgers, so I apologize if I was wrong about that. If you go to a couple of their websites, they list the schools they do OCI with and Rutgers isn’t on the list, which is why I assumed they didn’t come. Also, I like the “search by law school” function most of these firms have on their websites. 2 of the 4 largest Wilmington firms have zero Rutgers grads (Morris Nichols & Young Conaway) so I’m not exactly going to count on being the first Rutgers JD in the history of the firm they hire, even if they do come to OCI. (I did already pick Rutgers BTW, same reason as you)

Also, I don’t buy the clerkship angle. Rutgers has many more clerkships because NJ State Trial level judges hire clerks and in PA they don’t. I seriously doubt Rutgers has more Federal clerks than Nova or Temple, and these are the ones who may be going to biglaw once they’re done their clerkships.

[JethroTull]

Current Temple 3L here with Philly Biglaw. My class went through perhaps the worst OCI in history, and it was only through sheer determination and luck that I landed a 2L summer gig which became a full time offer. The vast majority of my classmates, and the vast majority of those on law review for that matter, were not as lucky. As we speak, there are editors of the law review still scrambling for jobs. That being said, other than Penn, Temple is still your best shot if you want to work biglaw in Philly and c/o 2013 and 14 should have it much easier. Good Luck.