Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

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Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:14 am

Two-plus years ago I took an LSAT that would have gotten me into Top 25 schools, although probably not the bottom of the t14, and accepted a full ride at a very local TTT. It's a decision that I knew was risky at the time and second-guessed numerous times. Did well enough 1L year to probably have a shot at a t14 transfer, but - again - just couldn't see myself taking on six figures of debt.

Had a good recruiting season last summer and ended up with multiple offers from firms that didn't recruit at my school, all paying six figures, although not V100 types. Spent the summer with a firm in a major city, loved the people and the work, and was fortunate enough to get called with an offer this morning. Immediately accepted. I expect to graduate next spring with under $10k in debt (but having exhausted almost all my savings, which was about 30k going into law school).

This post isn't to say doing it my way is a good idea. There are a ton more people at my school struggling right now than succeeding, even very talented people. Obviously, a top 25 school is a much safer play.

But I also wanted to share the story for those folks who are considering the same route, so they know it does happen from time to time. I know other students at my school, 3Ls, who pulled it off last year. My strongest advice if you're considering it is to realize that you're (obviously) going to have to be near the top of your class, top 15 percent or higher, and be really aggressive with selling yourself outside of the traditional OCI format. "Really aggressive" means more than 100 mailings, a lot of networking through friends and social networking and linkedin, and starting your summer job push in mid-July, not August.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dresden doll
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby dresden doll » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:17 am

Good for you. Congrats!

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traehekat
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby traehekat » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:24 am

livin' the DREAM.

congrats!

goldeneagle
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby goldeneagle » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:46 am

congrats!!!

legends159
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby legends159 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:22 am

Congrats but remember that most of your classmates are not as fortunate to have won the gamble

nbhatia
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby nbhatia » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:28 am

legends159 wrote:Congrats but remember that most of your classmates are not as fortunate to have won the gamble


thats what he just said...

"There are a ton more people at my school struggling right now than succeeding, even very talented people"

Pip
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Pip » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:46 am

You won the lottery. Goto a low ranking school and you will likely find 80-90% of the graduates are making less than $50,000/year.

The real question that I would have for you is whether you will win the next lottery (partner or asked to leave)... that is where you may find that getting your degree without debt is working against you. Unless you perform way beyond the level of your rivals you could fall victim of the snob effect that often comes into play. Partners aren't given to the associates that perform best, their are also things considered such as the network of future clients you bring. If I have two equal associates, one from a lower level school and one from a top school who do I think will be more likely to bring in clients? I would have to go with the one from a top school because he would be more likely to have the country club connections that will generate clients and revenue.

I'm not saying it is fair, but that is the reality of firms and how they operate. I've also seen associates that were better at their job than another associate passed over because they weren't from the right background... so make the best of where you are but don't be surprised if your decision still comes back to smack you on the head 7 years down the road.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:54 am

OP here. The lottery comparison is too negative IMO. The odds are high, but not as high as the lottery, and they're odds that you can lower if you're willing to do certain things. As I stated above, it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).

The partnership issue doesn't concern me much. The firm has partners from a variety of schools, including my own TTT.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. The lottery comparison is too negative IMO. The odds are high, but not as high as the lottery, and they're odds that you can lower if you're willing to do certain things. As I stated above, it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).

The partnership issue doesn't concern me much. The firm has partners from a variety of schools, including my own TTT.


In general, how are your classmates doing job-wise?

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98234872348
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby 98234872348 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:18 pm

Pip wrote:You won the lottery. Goto a low ranking school and you will likely find 80-90% of the graduates are making less than $50,000/year.

The real question that I would have for you is whether you will win the next lottery (partner or asked to leave)... that is where you may find that getting your degree without debt is working against you. Unless you perform way beyond the level of your rivals you could fall victim of the snob effect that often comes into play. Partners aren't given to the associates that perform best, their are also things considered such as the network of future clients you bring. If I have two equal associates, one from a lower level school and one from a top school who do I think will be more likely to bring in clients? I would have to go with the one from a top school because he would be more likely to have the country club connections that will generate clients and revenue.

I'm not saying it is fair, but that is the reality of firms and how they operate. I've also seen associates that were better at their job than another associate passed over because they weren't from the right background... so make the best of where you are but don't be surprised if your decision still comes back to smack you on the head 7 years down the road.

Are you an attorney or even someone who works at a large firm? I am not saying that your vantage is necessarily wrong, but "where you went to school" is a quality that is neither necessary nor sufficient in becoming a rainmaker. Also remember that a lot of third to fifth year associates at big firms have comfortable exit options that don't force them to shove their credentials down potential clients throats. fwiw.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:20 pm

In general my classmates are struggling. No way to sugarcoat it. I have friends at t14 schools who don't have a job, but not having a job is the exception there, where as at my school it's the norm.

Again, I don't want to suggest this is a smart way to do things or that it's not risky. Just that it's possible.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.


Market?

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dresden doll
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby dresden doll » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.


Market?


Would like to know this as well. Also, school since it's an anon post.

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romothesavior
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby romothesavior » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:36 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.


Market?


Would like to know this as well. Also, school since it's an anon post.


Also interested. It seems that most top 1/3 people at T25s are at least getting callbacks from what I've seen in other threads.

hithere
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby hithere » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:37 pm

You're not a URM going to Howard are you?

Pip
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Pip » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:40 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Pip wrote:You won the lottery. Goto a low ranking school and you will likely find 80-90% of the graduates are making less than $50,000/year.

The real question that I would have for you is whether you will win the next lottery (partner or asked to leave)... that is where you may find that getting your degree without debt is working against you. Unless you perform way beyond the level of your rivals you could fall victim of the snob effect that often comes into play. Partners aren't given to the associates that perform best, their are also things considered such as the network of future clients you bring. If I have two equal associates, one from a lower level school and one from a top school who do I think will be more likely to bring in clients? I would have to go with the one from a top school because he would be more likely to have the country club connections that will generate clients and revenue.

I'm not saying it is fair, but that is the reality of firms and how they operate. I've also seen associates that were better at their job than another associate passed over because they weren't from the right background... so make the best of where you are but don't be surprised if your decision still comes back to smack you on the head 7 years down the road.

Are you an attorney or even someone who works at a large firm? I am not saying that your vantage is necessarily wrong, but "where you went to school" is a quality that is neither necessary nor sufficient in becoming a rainmaker. Also remember that a lot of third to fifth year associates at big firms have comfortable exit options that don't force them to shove their credentials down potential clients throats. fwiw.


I was an attorney until I realized it was more enjoyable working in a company... but I still stay in contact with law school classmates so know not only from first hand experience but from the experience of classmates how the partnership track works across a wide swath of firms... And for the record I never said being from a particular school was a requirement for being a rainmaker, I simply said that many of the partners in law firms that are going to pick the associates to be partners will care... that THEY will believe there is some added pull from a lawyer from an A level school versus a C or D level school.... and I'm not sure how you define a comfortable exist strategy... but when an associate has toiled long hours for 5 years to become a partner where they will work less and make more there really isn't any exist strategy that can make up for that.

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bk1
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby bk1 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:40 pm

@OP: I think most people agree with you that it is possible, nobody really debates that. However, would you recommend this to most people?

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:41 pm

hithere wrote:You're not a URM going to Howard are you?


OP again. Nope, average white male at very average T3.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:50 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.


Market?


Would like to know this as well. Also, school since it's an anon post.


atlanta and nyc; emory. maybe the lesson is just not to go to emory because it is actually a TTT.

Anonymous User
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:it's clearly a much riskier route than going T25 (but not much riskier in the current environment than some schools ranked 25-50 and most ranked 50-100).


should be T14, not T25. i am near the top of my class at a T25 with 0 callbacks. i do have a 2/3 scholarship but regret not trying to transfer up. the difference in job prospects would have been worth the money for me.


Had a feeling it was Emory, since I've heard a bunch of success stories coming out of OCI from GW and BU thus far.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:56 pm

bk1 wrote:@OP: I think most people agree with you that it is possible, nobody really debates that. However, would you recommend this to most people?


As to whether I'd recommend this route ... in general, no. I hope that's clear from my original post. I second-guessed the decision multiple times, almost transferred and - in the end - certainly feel fortunate to end up where I'll be working.

But I also think taking on 100k-plus in student loans is very risky, and in some ways has a greater downside. No job with TTT full ride? Well, you're screwed, but you're not as screwed as the guy with no job and 100k or more in loans. It's a question of which risk you want to take, really.

Taking out that kind of debt load for a t14 education is understandable.

Taking it out for a school ranked from 20 to 50 is where the discussion gets more complicated. I can't say one route is right or wrong, that's a highly personal decision and the advice might vary with the school. If you want an East Coast firm job, George Washington, for instance, is probably a much safer bet than Georgia or Minnesota, and perhaps very much worth the debt risk.

If you were choosing between a full ride to TTT Michigan State and full tuition at Ohio State, and you want to work in the Midwest then it's a tougher call. There's really not that much difference between their OCI numbers.

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dresden doll
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby dresden doll » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:atlanta and nyc; emory. maybe the lesson is just not to go to emory because it is actually a TTT.


Christ. What is Emory OCS doing, anyway? They should all be fired. I don't believe that ATL market isn't large enough to absorb the very top of Emory's class, particularly when peer schools seem to be doing much better (see: GW).

My sympathy goes out to you. Good luck with further job search.

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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:17 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:atlanta and nyc; emory. maybe the lesson is just not to go to emory because it is actually a TTT.


Christ. What is Emory OCS doing, anyway? They should all be fired. I don't believe that ATL market isn't large enough to absorb the very top of Emory's class, particularly when peer schools seem to be doing much better (see: GW).

My sympathy goes out to you. Good luck with further job search.


sitting with their thumbs up their asses and passing out donuts. thanks for the good wishes, but it looks pretty hopeless. i've been sending out cover letters but i don't even anticipate a response when firms see i attend a TTT. i want to drop out of LR - fat lot of good it's doing me right now.

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20160810
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Re: Offer accepted, the TTT gamble pays off

Postby 20160810 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:18 pm

Congrats dude, you earned it.




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