Asian Legal Market?

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Anonymous User
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Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 2:03 pm

What is the current outlook on practicing (corporate) law in Asia? I know there are a significant number of IP opportunities in the region, but I don't have a technical background.

I have a feeling that this market will be booming in the next 10-15 years as the region develops its commercial sectors. I'll be working on my Mandarin...

Anybody with experience?

Anonymous User
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:20 pm

There's a shortage of lawyers in Asia. I am looking to work in Singapore, where they also speak Mandarin.

My Singaporean friend told me that in Singapore, only 4 schools' graduates can work as "native" attorneys. Other schools' graduates have to work as "foreign" attorneys. These are: Harvard, Columbia, NYU, and Michigan. Yes, even Yale and Stanford grads have to work as "foreign" attorneys. You have to graduate in the top 70% of your class and take the bar exam for Singapore.

I think most people who work in Asia are fluent in Mandarin though, so you better be bilingual.

Anonymous User
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:There's a shortage of lawyers in Asia. I am looking to work in Singapore, where they also speak Mandarin.

My Singaporean friend told me that in Singapore, only 4 schools' graduates can work as "native" attorneys. Other schools' graduates have to work as "foreign" attorneys. These are: Harvard, Columbia, NYU, and Michigan. Yes, even Yale and Stanford grads have to work as "foreign" attorneys. You have to graduate in the top 70% of your class and take the bar exam for Singapore.

I think most people who work in Asia are fluent in Mandarin though, so you better be bilingual.


Very interesting info. How difficult is it for a US-trained lawyer (English/Mandarin bilingual) to pass the Singapore bar? Thanks!

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rx3r
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby rx3r » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:29 pm

Tagging for future reference.

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holydonkey
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby holydonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:32 pm

rx3r wrote:Tagging for future reference.
+1

PrincessLexiRae
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby PrincessLexiRae » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:37 pm

I would love to work in Hong Kong. And have looked into moving there after law school. I know it is easier to work there when you work for a big firm here that has offices there. And there is a need for lawyers in the finance world there. I'm not sure about the bar and whatever else you need to practice law there though...

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174
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby 174 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:50 pm

This thread is relevant to my interests. I've studied two years of Mandarin and am wondering if most law schools allow students to take language courses in addition to their law coursework. Anyone know the answer to this?

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merichard87
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby merichard87 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:54 pm

Very interested in this as well. How hard is it to talk your firm into letting you transfer to a foreign office? How does that work if anybody knows.

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rx3r
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby rx3r » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:55 pm

174 wrote:This thread is relevant to my interests. I've studied two years of Mandarin and am wondering if most law schools allow students to take language courses in addition to their law coursework. Anyone know the answer to this?


I know there has been a legal Mandarin language class taught at Columbia in the past.

http://www.law.columbia.edu/center_prog ... rse#941582

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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:38 pm

Source: http://careers.law.unimelb.edu.au/index ... 43ECB5359B

There are two routes to becoming admitted as a solicitor in Hong Kong - the 'Trainee Solicitor Route' and the 'Overseas Qualified Lawyer Route'.

Trainee Solicitor Route
In order to follow this path you must first demonstrate that compentence in 11 core subjects. These are:

Contact
Tort
Constitutional Law
Criminal Law
Land Law
Civil Procedure
Criminal Procedure
Evidence
Business Associates
Commercial Law
In addition if you have not passed the following 3 subjects at a Hong Kong university LLB or JD course you will need to pass the Hong Kong Conversion Examination for PCLL Admission.

Hong Kong Consitutional Law
Hong Kong Legal System
Hong Kong Land Law
Having passed the Conversion Exam you are then able to enrol in the Postgraduate Certificate in Laws (PCLL).

PCLL is offered by the University of Hong Kong, the City University of Jong Kong or the Chinese University of Hong Kong.

After successful completion of the PCLL a further two years of employment as a trainee solicitor or twelve months pupillage is required in order to be eligible for admission to practise as a solicitor or a barrister respectively in Hong Kong.

For futher information visit the Hong Kong PCLL Conversion Examination Board website.

Hong Kong Conversion Examination Board
c/o PCLL Conversion Examination and Administration Limited
34/F, United Centre, 95 Queensway,
Hong Kong
Tel: 3761 1123
Fax: 2861 2404
Email: enquiry@pcea.com.hk
http://www.pcea.com.hk/



Overseas Qualified Route
Foreign lawyers who have been admitted to practise law in a common law jurisdiction other than Hong Kong and who have at least 2 years of post-admission experience may be eligible to apply for admission to practise law in Hong Kong after successful completion of the Overseas Lawyers Qualification Examination.


Further information is available at the Law Society of Hong Kong website.

This site is full of good stuff: http://www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_e/admiss ... icitor.asp

Flowchart for Foreign Lawyers: http://www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_e/admiss ... _Route.pdf

Anonymous User
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Source: http://careers.law.unimelb.edu.au/index ... 43ECB5359B

There are two routes to becoming admitted as a solicitor in Hong Kong - the 'Trainee Solicitor Route' and the 'Overseas Qualified Lawyer Route'.

Trainee Solicitor Route
In order to follow this path you must first demonstrate that compentence in 11 core subjects. These are:

Contact
Tort
Constitutional Law
Criminal Law
Land Law
Civil Procedure
Criminal Procedure
Evidence
Business Associates
Commercial Law
In addition if you have not passed the following 3 subjects at a Hong Kong university LLB or JD course you will need to pass the Hong Kong Conversion Examination for PCLL Admission.

Hong Kong Consitutional Law
Hong Kong Legal System
Hong Kong Land Law
Having passed the Conversion Exam you are then able to enrol in the Postgraduate Certificate in Laws (PCLL).

PCLL is offered by the University of Hong Kong, the City University of Jong Kong or the Chinese University of Hong Kong.

After successful completion of the PCLL a further two years of employment as a trainee solicitor or twelve months pupillage is required in order to be eligible for admission to practise as a solicitor or a barrister respectively in Hong Kong.

For futher information visit the Hong Kong PCLL Conversion Examination Board website.

Hong Kong Conversion Examination Board
c/o PCLL Conversion Examination and Administration Limited
34/F, United Centre, 95 Queensway,
Hong Kong
Tel: 3761 1123
Fax: 2861 2404
Email: enquiry@pcea.com.hk
http://www.pcea.com.hk/



Overseas Qualified Route
Foreign lawyers who have been admitted to practise law in a common law jurisdiction other than Hong Kong and who have at least 2 years of post-admission experience may be eligible to apply for admission to practise law in Hong Kong after successful completion of the Overseas Lawyers Qualification Examination.


Further information is available at the Law Society of Hong Kong website.

This site is full of good stuff: http://www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_e/admiss ... icitor.asp

Flowchart for Foreign Lawyers: http://www.hklawsoc.org.hk/pub_e/admiss ... _Route.pdf


What's a post-admission experience? Admission to my foreign bar?

Anonymous User
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
What's a post-admission experience? Admission to my foreign bar?


Yes, foreigner.

mikecw23
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby mikecw23 » Sat May 01, 2010 2:09 am

After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2010 2:22 am

mikecw23 wrote:After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters


You don't NEED to know Mandarin to practice in Singapore, because everyone there speaks it as well, but why would they hire you if they have bilingual applicants with similar credentials? (Your stunning good looks?)

btw, I think you can interview with attorneys from foreign offices at certain schools' OCIs. At the t14 I go to, I can opt to interview for HK offices, for example.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 01, 2010 4:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
mikecw23 wrote:After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters


You don't NEED to know Mandarin to practice in Singapore, because everyone there speaks it as well, but why would they hire you if they have bilingual applicants with similar credentials? (Your stunning good looks?)

btw, I think you can interview with attorneys from foreign offices at certain schools' OCIs. At the t14 I go to, I can opt to interview for HK offices, for example.


credited. I have an uncle who's doing business in HK. He says that while it's totally possible to be a complete foreigner and speak english only, cantonese and mandarin fluency is preferable. Although most americans seem to get on pretty well with just rudimentary language skills.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 02, 2010 7:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mikecw23 wrote:After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters


You don't NEED to know Mandarin to practice in Singapore, because everyone there speaks it as well, but why would they hire you if they have bilingual applicants with similar credentials? (Your stunning good looks?)

btw, I think you can interview with attorneys from foreign offices at certain schools' OCIs. At the t14 I go to, I can opt to interview for HK offices, for example.


credited. I have an uncle who's doing business in HK. He says that while it's totally possible to be a complete foreigner and speak english only, cantonese and mandarin fluency is preferable. Although most americans seem to get on pretty well with just rudimentary language skills.


haha the good ol' point and nod.

What if you are a fluent (not just a poser, but literally fluent since you were raised with it) speaker but cannot read or write it?

ArmyVet07
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby ArmyVet07 » Sun May 02, 2010 8:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mikecw23 wrote:After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters


You don't NEED to know Mandarin to practice in Singapore, because everyone there speaks it as well, but why would they hire you if they have bilingual applicants with similar credentials? (Your stunning good looks?)

btw, I think you can interview with attorneys from foreign offices at certain schools' OCIs. At the t14 I go to, I can opt to interview for HK offices, for example.


credited. I have an uncle who's doing business in HK. He says that while it's totally possible to be a complete foreigner and speak english only, cantonese and mandarin fluency is preferable. Although most americans seem to get on pretty well with just rudimentary language skills.


haha the good ol' point and nod.

What if you are a fluent (not just a poser, but literally fluent since you were raised with it) speaker but cannot read or write it?


Are you fluent in both Mandarin and Cantonese? For HK that would be preferred.
Given that there are huge differences between informal/spoken and formal/written Chinese, I suspect that not being able to read or write the language would be an issue, but you would certainly have an advantage over people who don't know the language at all (or have only a low level of fluency). If you were raised speaking Chinese, I'm guessing you are also at home in the culture, which would be another plus.

jchb6d
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby jchb6d » Sun May 02, 2010 8:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
mikecw23 wrote:After reviewing the NUS website and the ministry of law, I'm under the impression that you do not need to know Mandarin at all to practice law in Singapore. English seems to be the preferred language in Singapore legal matters


You don't NEED to know Mandarin to practice in Singapore, because everyone there speaks it as well, but why would they hire you if they have bilingual applicants with similar credentials? (Your stunning good looks?)

btw, I think you can interview with attorneys from foreign offices at certain schools' OCIs. At the t14 I go to, I can opt to interview for HK offices, for example.


credited. I have an uncle who's doing business in HK. He says that while it's totally possible to be a complete foreigner and speak english only, cantonese and mandarin fluency is preferable. Although most americans seem to get on pretty well with just rudimentary language skills.


haha the good ol' point and nod.

What if you are a fluent (not just a poser, but literally fluent since you were raised with it) speaker but cannot read or write it?



I'm in the exact same boat. "Fluent" at about a kindergarten through 4th grade level, but can't read or write. For about 28 years now, I've kidded myself into thinking that was worth something.

If I was going to be an ex-pat living on my millions, that's probably more than enough, but why would any firm, Chinese or otherwise, want to hire a 4th-grader?

I had 2 40% off coupons from Borders, I went and picked up a couple Chinese writing books. The biggest problem I had was that most books were geared toward conversational Chinese. I don't really need help asking where the bathroom is, or when the bus will be here.

My school does not allow me to take undergraduate language courses as a law student, but I can take a non-credit course in business and legal Chinese through the B School. And, in looking around the undergraduate language department's website, there were actually quite a few really good resources (book recommendations and websites). You might want to look into that, too. If you can't find anything, PM me and I'll send you what links I have.

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goblue1646
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby goblue1646 » Sun May 02, 2010 8:37 am

great thread! i'm working in shanghai now and would love to return to asia after getting my jd

awesomepossum
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby awesomepossum » Sun May 02, 2010 8:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:There's a shortage of lawyers in Asia. I am looking to work in Singapore, where they also speak Mandarin.

My Singaporean friend told me that in Singapore, only 4 schools' graduates can work as "native" attorneys. Other schools' graduates have to work as "foreign" attorneys. These are: Harvard, Columbia, NYU, and Michigan. Yes, even Yale and Stanford grads have to work as "foreign" attorneys. You have to graduate in the top 70% of your class and take the bar exam for Singapore.

I think most people who work in Asia are fluent in Mandarin though, so you better be bilingual.



Yay! It's off to Singapore for me!

chris888777
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Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:49 am

Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby chris888777 » Sun May 02, 2010 9:08 am

Trust me, you do NOT need to know Mandarin to practice law/do business/or live in Singapore. English is not only the preferred language but really the only language used in public.

jamesieee
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby jamesieee » Sun May 02, 2010 9:41 am

holydonkey wrote:
rx3r wrote:Tagging for future reference.
+1

+2

Posner
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby Posner » Sun May 02, 2010 1:10 pm

...
Last edited by Posner on Tue May 11, 2010 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xqhp82
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby xqhp82 » Sun May 02, 2010 1:32 pm

i am from hk myself, but i don't see a big problem to work in hong kong not being able to speak cantonese/mandarin, same in singapore. if you go to large law firms people tend to communicate in english anyway, and i know a lot of expats who have lived in hk for 10+ years who can't speak a word of chinese (or refusing to speak it maybe? that's another issue)

I'm wondering though, what's the job prospect like if i hold a JD degree? i'm definitely going back to asia in the future (preferrably hk, or china, or taiwan) but it seems to me that LLB is still the major player...only two universities in HK have just introduced 2-year JD programs, not sure if they're as prestigious as the US JD, but in my opinion the JD is virtually unknown and often misunderstood...i'm not so much interested in the big-law/business side of things, more leaning towards public interest, am i doomed?

awesomepossum
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Re: Asian Legal Market?

Postby awesomepossum » Sun May 02, 2010 2:29 pm

xqhp82 wrote:i am from hk myself, but i don't see a big problem to work in hong kong not being able to speak cantonese/mandarin, same in singapore. if you go to large law firms people tend to communicate in english anyway, and i know a lot of expats who have lived in hk for 10+ years who can't speak a word of chinese (or refusing to speak it maybe? that's another issue)

I'm wondering though, what's the job prospect like if i hold a JD degree? i'm definitely going back to asia in the future (preferrably hk, or china, or taiwan) but it seems to me that LLB is still the major player...only two universities in HK have just introduced 2-year JD programs, not sure if they're as prestigious as the US JD, but in my opinion the JD is virtually unknown and often misunderstood...i'm not so much interested in the big-law/business side of things, more leaning towards public interest, am i doomed?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqcn_TPu4qQ&feature=related




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