How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

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XxSpyKEx
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How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:11 pm

Where do I go to find out what federal judges are hiring when? Is this information posted somewhere on clerk addict (or elsewhere) as to what judges are taking applications when, and what to send (from my understanding, I can't even get onto OSCAR yet being a 2L)?

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:24 pm

bump

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:25 pm

call chambers and ask their clerks. 10th circuit hires off plan pretty consistently, i think.

Renzo
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Renzo » Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:00 pm

XxSpyKEx wrote:Where do I go to find out what federal judges are hiring when? Is this information posted somewhere on clerk addict (or elsewhere) as to what judges are taking applications when, and what to send (from my understanding, I can't even get onto OSCAR yet being a 2L)?

Did you ask OCS at your school? My guess is they would have a pretty good sense of which judges hire off-plan and when.

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TTT-LS
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby TTT-LS » Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:39 pm

,
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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XxSpyKEx
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:21 am

TTT-LS wrote:Complete info is hard to come by, and for good reason. Some judges intentionally make it hard to apply to them, so as to hire exclusively through trusted faculty channels. Others just don't put a ton of energy into clerk hiring.

As the poster above said, most of the 10th Cir. hires early. Their website has some info on that (see http://www.ck10.uscourts.gov/hr/law_clerk_hiring.php). Other circuits really vary -- the 3d, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 11th seem to have lots of early judges, while the 1st, 2d, 6th, 7th, and 8th seem not to. I don't think any judges on D.C. Cir. hire students early, though several do hire alumni early; and I have no clue re: Fed. Cir. Lawclerrkaddict is the best public resource, but clurker seems to have abandoned the site and the 2010-11 data has not been aggregated or updated since the middle of last summer. Finding addresses for judges' chambers can be a bear, but it can be done (e.g., via some workarounds in OSCAR, or via Google).


Thanks for the info.

What about district courts or specialty courts (more specifically bankruptcy), do they ever hire early? … I really want to apply extremely broadly after hearing the # of clerkship applications for how many spots were open, but there is just so many courts I want to cover it seems like it would be really difficult to call the chambers for all of them.

Renzo- my school strongly discourages applications off the hiring plan, so they definitely wouldn't give me that information even if they had it. I actually can’t even use letters of recommendation from professors here for off-plan hiring. However, I obviously would have to apply early for judges that hire early if I want a shot at those spots.

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Corsair » Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:30 am

..

Renzo
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Renzo » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:28 am

Corsair wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Renzo- my school strongly discourages applications off the hiring plan, so they definitely wouldn't give me that information even if they had it. I actually can’t even use letters of recommendation from professors here for off-plan hiring.


First part I understand because all schools hate it.

Second part is insane. I suggest emailing your dean and asking why they have a policy preventing their students from getting employment, especially in the current economy. Ask specifically if they hate their students and see them just as blank checks, not as people who plan to have lives after law school.

And cc Above The Law.

Amen.

Keeping students out of clerkships hardly seems like the way to teach recalcitrant judges a lesson.

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:37 am

Corsair wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Renzo- my school strongly discourages applications off the hiring plan, so they definitely wouldn't give me that information even if they had it. I actually can’t even use letters of recommendation from professors here for off-plan hiring.


First part I understand because all schools hate it.

Second part is insane. I suggest emailing your dean and asking why they have a policy preventing their students from getting employment, especially in the current economy. Ask specifically if they hate their students and see them just as blank checks, not as people who plan to have lives after law school.

And cc Above The Law.


Every law school with a clue has policies in place to discourage students from violating the Federal Law Clerk Hiring Plan. The Plan is a creation of the federal judiciary, and schools must abide by it in order to avoid pissing off the majority of judges. Following corsair's suggestion and e-mailing your dean would just make you look like a douche. Here are the schools' marching orders directly from the Plan's web page. These instructions apply to all federal judges.

"Law schools and law faculty members will discourage potential applicants from submitting applications that will be received before the day after Labor Day of their third year of law school. The law schools will do nothing to facilitate the release of official transcripts and will discourage faculty members from sending letters of reference that will be received before the day after Labor Day of the third year of law school, and they will discourage faculty from making calls on behalf of the law clerk applicants before that date."

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby TTT-LS » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:56 am

,
Last edited by TTT-LS on Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:52 am

TTT-LS wrote:Frst off, most COA judges despise the plan. Second, schools worth their salt know lots of judges do not follow the plan (which is NOT binding on judges in any way) and find ways to assist students accordingly.


Yes, many judges despise the plan. I don't know how many, or specifically what percentage of COA judges reject it. And yes, it is not binding on the judges. In practice, however, the plan is binding on the schools, and the schools have policies to encourage on-plan applications. It's not "insane" to withhold recommendation letters; it's a standard practice. Sending hyperbolic rants to deans and Above the Law will not change that.

Anyway, how do schools find ways to assist students in applying off-plan?

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby XxSpyKEx » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:31 pm

Corsair wrote:
XxSpyKEx wrote:Renzo- my school strongly discourages applications off the hiring plan, so they definitely wouldn't give me that information even if they had it. I actually can’t even use letters of recommendation from professors here for off-plan hiring.


First part I understand because all schools hate it.

Second part is insane. I suggest emailing your dean and asking why they have a policy preventing their students from getting employment, especially in the current economy. Ask specifically if they hate their students and see them just as blank checks, not as people who plan to have lives after law school.

And cc Above The Law.


lol. I actually had thought this same thing, and it seems a bit ridiculous to put us at a disadavantage to schools that don't have a similar policy (particularly in this type of an economy). But at the clerkship panel our clerkship adviser said that this was something that our peer institutions followed as well. Virginia and Harvard were named dropped as following that practice. Does NU not have a similar policy for clerkship applications? ...


Anonymous User wrote:"Law schools and law faculty members will discourage potential applicants from submitting applications that will be received before the day after Labor Day of their third year of law school. The law schools will do nothing to facilitate the release of official transcripts and will discourage faculty members from sending letters of reference that will be received before the day after Labor Day of the third year of law school, and they will discourage faculty from making calls on behalf of the law clerk applicants before that date."


My school's policy looks a lot like this.




Anyway, does anyone have information in re: to my following question?:
XxSpyKEx wrote:What about district courts or specialty courts (more specifically bankruptcy), do they ever hire early?

Renzo
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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Renzo » Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TTT-LS wrote:Frst off, most COA judges despise the plan. Second, schools worth their salt know lots of judges do not follow the plan (which is NOT binding on judges in any way) and find ways to assist students accordingly.


Anyway, how do schools find ways to assist students in applying off-plan?

Anonymous posts are for candy-asses. Anyway, I have been told by career counselors that they can help students identify judges who hire off-plan, and my school has no policy regarding when and to whom profs may recommend students, so the school has "found ways to assist students in applying off-plan."

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Corsair » Thu Mar 25, 2010 2:47 am

..

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby steve_nash » Sun Mar 28, 2010 8:41 am

A slightly different question -- because I am applying off-plan, should I still apply to 100+ judges? Or should I have a much more narrow target, say, 20? (I don't even know if there are 100 off-plan judges I could apply to.) I'm starting to realize how daunting even the process of selecting the judges is.

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Re: How do I find information for fed judges that hire off-plan?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:17 am

TTT-LS wrote:Complete info is hard to come by, and for good reason. Some judges intentionally make it hard to apply to them, so as to hire exclusively through trusted faculty channels. Others just don't put a ton of energy into clerk hiring.

As the poster above said, most of the 10th Cir. hires early. Their website has some info on that (see http://www.ck10.uscourts.gov/hr/law_clerk_hiring.php). Other circuits really vary -- the 3d, 4th, 5th, 9th, and 11th seem to have lots of early judges, while the 1st, 2d, 6th, 7th, and 8th seem not to. I don't think any judges on D.C. Cir. hire students early, though several do hire alumni early; and I have no clue re: Fed. Cir. Lawclerrkaddict is the best public resource, but clurker seems to have abandoned the site and the 2010-11 data has not been aggregated or updated since the middle of last summer. Finding addresses for judges' chambers can be a bear, but it can be done (e.g., via some workarounds in OSCAR, or via Google).


Bear in mind that a great many COA judges will only hire alums with 1-2 years in practice or a previous clerkship. The hiring plan is not applicable to graduates, so these judges need not follow the plan timeline.




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