Summer at MBB consulting firm willing to take questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

all in comp as a junior to senior compared to the 160, 170, 185, 210, 230, 250 + market bonuses scale?

With the caveat that unlike lockstep BigLaw, your comp varies depending on performance, comp is a bit higher though it's not dramatic. A first year associate will make around 195-200k at the median, give or take maybe 10k or so if I had to guess (this is signing bonus + base + bonus), and then the firm puts a certain % of that money into a retirement account for you (even if you contribute 0). 2nd year associate stays at around 200k because their raise offsets the lack of signing bonus, plus again the retirement contribution.

Even with comp a bit higher though I think it shouldn't be the deciding factor - not dramatic enough for that.

[Anonymous User]

Do you know what the recruiting timeline is for bcg or bain? I've got an interview with mck but haven't heard heard back from the others.

What sort of work did you do as a summer?

Is there a way to limit your travel? I've heard you can limit if you take shitty projects.

Do they pay for bar prep and allow you to take the bar?

Recruiting timeline for bcg / bain: Bain varies by office - your best bet is to reach out to the local office recruiter that you'd be interested in and get in front of the process. BCG has a similar full-time hiring timeline as McK, and their summer application process starts in December/Jan.

Sort of work: Lots of PowerPoint. Took a deep dive into the specific industry and product area we were in and formulated a couple of client presentations about it. Cool in that I got to learn specifically about a microindustry and players I never would have learned about otherwise.

Travel: eh, this is very office and group-specific. If you are in New York and want to focus on financial institutions, yes your travel can be very limited. If you're in Boston and want to work on energy projects? Expect to be on a plane to Texas every single week. I think if travel is a big thing, you can be careful about your office and industry selection, but I think coming into consulting and not wanting to travel is not a god combination overall.

Bar prep and bar: yup and yup, though it's optional and I have heard they don't care if you take the bar or even pass if you do.

[Anonymous User]

T14 JD/MBA Here:

Haven't been able to find info on this: Do BCG/Bain take 2nd year JD/MBA summers? I know their timeline is a little different in any case, but also most of what I find seems to indicate they only take people headed into their last summer, unlike McKinsey.

In a single summer, are you on one project the entire time? Do you have any input as to the type of project you are put on (re: industry)?

Interviewing at McKinsey Round 1 this month, so any general tips or advice are welcome (been working a ton on case interviews, also trying not to neglect the fit interview and PST).

[Anonymous User]

Haven't been able to find info on this: Do BCG/Bain take 2nd year JD/MBA summers? I know their timeline is a little different in any case, but also most of what I find seems to indicate they only take people headed into their last summer, unlike McKinsey.

In a single summer, are you on one project the entire time? Do you have any input as to the type of project you are put on (re: industry)?

Interviewing at McKinsey Round 1 this month, so any general tips or advice are welcome (been working a ton on case interviews, also trying not to neglect the fit interview and PST).

Hmm to be honest I'm not sure about the 2 summers left thing - to my knowledge even McK prefers that you be one summer out from graduation, though they make exceptions. I wish I could give you more guidance here, sorry!

Project-wise, this depends on the summer. It seemed like an even-ish split, maybe with slightly more people on more than 1 project. Just depends! They ask you general preferences regarding industry (e.g. financial institutions), service line (e.g. operations), and travel preference (yes/no), but it's unclear how much weight all of that has. I got one of the industries I wanted.

Interviewing: I think you're generally on the right track. There's so much info out there that I am not sure anything I add would be helpful. I would really really emphasize that live practice is super important, preferably in-person and with someone that is going through the process from your school. There's just no substitute for this, and I think the live practice and feedback I did with my case partners afterwards was crucial for my interviewing success.

EDIT: and YES, do NOT neglect the fit interview portion. They really grill you on your experiences, and you can't BS your way through your stories. Know them inside out, and how you felt and what your thought process was at each stage. Be specific as possible.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't been able to find info on this: Do BCG/Bain take 2nd year JD/MBA summers? I know their timeline is a little different in any case, but also most of what I find seems to indicate they only take people headed into their last summer, unlike McKinsey.

In a single summer, are you on one project the entire time? Do you have any input as to the type of project you are put on (re: industry)?

Interviewing at McKinsey Round 1 this month, so any general tips or advice are welcome (been working a ton on case interviews, also trying not to neglect the fit interview and PST).

Hmm to be honest I'm not sure about the 2 summers left thing - to my knowledge even McK prefers that you be one summer out from graduation, though they make exceptions. I wish I could give you more guidance here, sorry!

Project-wise, this depends on the summer. It seemed like an even-ish split, maybe with slightly more people on more than 1 project. Just depends! They ask you general preferences regarding industry (e.g. financial institutions), service line (e.g. operations), and travel preference (yes/no), but it's unclear how much weight all of that has. I got one of the industries I wanted.

Interviewing: I think you're generally on the right track. There's so much info out there that I am not sure anything I add would be helpful. I would really really emphasize that live practice is super important, preferably in-person and with someone that is going through the process from your school. There's just no substitute for this, and I think the live practice and feedback I did with my case partners afterwards was crucial for my interviewing success.

EDIT: and YES, do NOT neglect the fit interview portion. They really grill you on your experiences, and you can't BS your way through your stories. Know them inside out, and how you felt and what your thought process was at each stage. Be specific as possible.

Thanks! On a more interesting (perhaps) note: what did you NOT like about your summer, but decided you'd still want to go back full time?

[Johann]

you think if i flame out (aka get shitcanned) as a biglaw lawyer, i should get an MBA to try and get into business? im decently smart with business concepts and math. doubt id be matieral for MBB (im not prestigious at all) but you know anything about the next tier and whether theyd want to take on a failed lawyer?

[Anonymous User]

how does one's legal education fit in consulting jobs/ tax advisory services? I see increasing amount of similar jobs posted on simplicity, but how does a J.D contribute to this line of work?

[Anonymous User]

Great questions all, keep them coming!

Thanks! On a more interesting (perhaps) note: what did you NOT like about your summer, but decided you'd still want to go back full time?

I really like this question, because it shows an understanding that any job out of grad school is far from perfect. My summer was far from perfect. I will say on the plus side though, these firms do a *fairly* good job of immersing you in the day to day life unlike law firm summers.

What I didn't like: I really wasn't sure I was having amazing client impact or anything. It sometimes felt like I was just working on certain workstreams that the partner wanted for whatever reason or because that's how they interpreted client demands.
Powerpoint can get really old even within the span of a summer.
The hours on my particular study were pretty brutal, though just like full-time this varies a lot across studies. Some are like 9-6, some are like mine (rare to be out of the office before midnight), and most are somewhere in between. But hey, I figure if I get the tough experience now and survive then it can only get easier (one hopes at least).

I decided I want to go back full-time because I really didn't like the vibe I got from law firm associates I spoke to (law firms and MBB alike will allow you to split with the other by the way, a good option if you are on the fence) - they seemed categorically miserable, and the unpredictability of hours for corporate seemed to really wear on them. Also, on the positive side, I liked the potential exit ops into business better and thought they would be more interesting. Finally, you will go through drudgery at both places, but the work at MBB seems more "exciting", though again Powerpoint ad nauseum isn't the sexiest thing either.

[Anonymous User]

you think if i flame out (aka get shitcanned) as a biglaw lawyer, i should get an MBA to try and get into business? im decently smart with business concepts and math. doubt id be matieral for MBB (im not prestigious at all) but you know anything about the next tier and whether theyd want to take on a failed lawyer?

So without knowing your personal situation in detail hard to make a recommendation. Do you have a feeling of if you would like BigLaw work? Or is there something about business that appeals to you?

I would definitely look into PWC's division (I'm blanking on the name currently) which hires a ton of JD's. A friend of mine went to a good, but not great, law school (not t-14) and did quite well in the recruiting process and liked the people he met there. You get to utilize some JD knowledge but are not a lawyer, which seems like a great combo.

The MBA thing is case-specific; even for non-JD folks, there's a lot of debate about if it adds any value. That aside, if you are looking to press the reset button a bit, I think stepping up to a good tier of MBA programs (top 15 or so) will open up some solid doors. I think if you work for a BigLaw firm and do well on the GMAT, you should get into one of these.

[Anonymous User]

how does one's legal education fit in consulting jobs/ tax advisory services? I see increasing amount of similar jobs posted on simplicity, but how does a J.D contribute to this line of work?

Can't speak to tax advisory specifically; I also would point to my above post where PWC actually does sort of utilize some legal framework for the type of work you do in their advisory group if you come in with a JD.

Generally though, you will not learn what you learned in law school at a consulting firm. To be honest, this is partially because 90% of what you learn in law school is useless even if you ARE going to be a (corporate) lawyer - it's just way too abstract for the most part, and even if it weren't you'll forget it by the time you start work anyways. So aside from the ambiguous "learn how to think" thing that law school prepares you for, it's not that directly useful or applicable.

Here's the secret though: a lot of this applies to MBAs as well. An MBA is essentially a networking degree. They don't learn much that's on-the-job useful, especially not for consulting where the projects and skills you need to develop vary widely.

[smile0751]

How long do you see yourself staying at MBB? I was a consultant before and just burnt out on the travel. The work was interesting and I wouldnt mind getting back to the work, but I just dont think I could ever travel like that again.

[Anonymous User]

How long do you see yourself staying at MBB? I was a consultant before and just burnt out on the travel. The work was interesting and I wouldnt mind getting back to the work, but I just dont think I could ever travel like that again.

No clue if I had to be honest. Realistically, if I had to say, I would try to stay for one promotion, and then see what's out there in terms of exit options. I am not sure I am cut out for the partner track, but it is a slightly more realistic option that it is in BigLaw so wouldn't rule out at least trying for that, depending on family, burnout, etc.

Travel is tough, no doubt about it. I think that would be a large factor in my leaving earlier than anticipated.

[Johann]

you think if i flame out (aka get shitcanned) as a biglaw lawyer, i should get an MBA to try and get into business? im decently smart with business concepts and math. doubt id be matieral for MBB (im not prestigious at all) but you know anything about the next tier and whether theyd want to take on a failed lawyer?

So without knowing your personal situation in detail hard to make a recommendation. Do you have a feeling of if you would like BigLaw work? Or is there something about business that appeals to you?

I would definitely look into PWC's division (I'm blanking on the name currently) which hires a ton of JD's. A friend of mine went to a good, but not great, law school (not t-14) and did quite well in the recruiting process and liked the people he met there. You get to utilize some JD knowledge but are not a lawyer, which seems like a great combo.

The MBA thing is case-specific; even for non-JD folks, there's a lot of debate about if it adds any value. That aside, if you are looking to press the reset button a bit, I think stepping up to a good tier of MBA programs (top 15 or so) will open up some solid doors. I think if you work for a BigLaw firm and do well on the GMAT, you should get into one of these.

thanks.

[togoornottogo]

Thanks for doing taking questions.

You mention frontweighted to HYS. Do you see a discrepancy between lower T14 and CCN in terms of recruiting?
And also, do you find recruiting places more weight on grades or pre-law school experience?

[Anonymous User]

How important are your law school grades? Assume top 14 school.

Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

You mention frontweighted to HYS. Do you see a discrepancy between lower T14 and CCN in terms of recruiting?
And also, do you find recruiting places more weight on grades or pre-law school experience?

Previous two questions were about grades. You don't need to have WLRK grades or something - I know that my grades were "good", but not amazing. Top 25% at my school, but definitely not a contender for top 5-10%. In terms of emphasis, I don't think they care overly much, I can't remember it ever coming up in the process besides the very first time you submit an electronic transcript (they never asked for a paper or official one). And several people from all through the t-14 were in the room for the PST (round 1); their process is just much different than a law school. They'll be willing to give a reasonably wide range of people a look (assuming t-14), but the interview process is much more brutal than law firms, whereas at law firms you need the grades to get in the door for a callback.

Pre-law school experience is definitely a plus, but I know a few JDs that didn't have any or any super-prestigious pre law school experience, so it's doable without.

[Anonymous User]

What's the first round on campus screener like? Do you just have to pass the "don't be a psycho" test, know your resume, etc.?

You mentioned the PST so that means McKinsey was involved (although I guess you cold've had multiple offers and ended up elsewhere).

I'm at one of HY and Bain doesn't come to OCI. They just have the online application. Do I need to "network" and write the best cover letter ever in order for my online application not to get trashed immediately?

[Anonymous User]

What's the first round on campus screener like? Do you just have to pass the "don't be a psycho" test, know your resume, etc.? I'm at one of HY and Bain doesn't come to OCI. They just have the online application. Do I need to "network" and write the best cover letter ever in order for my online application not to get trashed immediately?

First-round, yes it's pretty much don't be an awkward psycho. Really, the stuff until the case interviews is a formality, that's when the going gets tough and most of the attrition happens.

And yes, that's unfortunately the Bain approach. I'd just e-mail or call the recruiter for the office that you would be interested in (that's what I did) - they're quite friendly and this is their job. Sooner the better in my opinion!

[Anonymous User]

It's Aug now. McK & BCG just started recruitment (for both MBAs & non-MBAs).
If I contact Bain by the end of this week, you think I'm on time?

What prep material would you recommend? I've read Case in Point and Case Interview Secrets but I feel like if the interviewer realizes that you're just pulling a Case in Point framework from memory, that'd be "unoriginal thinking."

Also, how do you answer the question "Why consulting, given law school?" Why consulting as a standalone question I can answer. Why consulting, given law school is harder. "So...you don't want to be a lawyer?"

[Anonymous User]

It's Aug now. McK & BCG just started recruitment (for both MBAs & non-MBAs).
If I contact Bain by the end of this week, you think I'm on time?

What prep material would you recommend? I've read Case in Point and Case Interview Secrets but I feel like if the interviewer realizes that you're just pulling a Case in Point framework from memory, that'd be "unoriginal thinking."

Also, how do you answer the question "Why consulting, given law school?" Why consulting as a standalone question I can answer. Why consulting, given law school is harder. "So...you don't want to be a lawyer?"

Re Bain - this is really something you should just go for isn't it? Meaning, whether my answer is yes or no (and truth is I have no idea), what you should do if you want it is send the recruiter an e-mail and follow up by phone today/tomorrow right? So, whatcha waiting for

Prep material - yeah those were good, plus the cases the big firms have on their site are useful too. You have to be careful to not just regurgitate on the real interview, but interviewers understand that you're using a few basic frameworks to guide your analysis, nothing wrong with that. Just adapt them to the case at hand and you'll be fine. Also, as I mentioned above, practicing with a live partner is incredibly important.

Why law school - there's a lot of angles to approach this, but I'd assume you have a decent honest answer for this. "I tried an internship in biglaw and realized consulting would be a better fit due to collaborative nature, problem solving, getting exposure to multiple industries and geographies, etc." or "I pursued the law because I appreciated the challenge of learning something new in a rigorous environment" blah blah... no need to overthink it much. BCG/Bain/Mck understand that a lot of people want to work there from all types of backgrounds, they really won't question you too hard about this as long as you've thought it through.

[Anonymous User]

OP you said something like PWC hired tons of JDs recently, can you elaborate on what positions were open for non MBA J.Ds? or are they 2Ls or 3Ls? Im looking for application but not sure which one to apply...on the PwC website.

[Anonymous User]

OP you said something like PWC hired tons of JDs recently, can you elaborate on what positions were open for non MBA J.Ds? or are they 2Ls or 3Ls? Im looking for application but not sure which one to apply...on the PwC website.

http://www.pwc.com/us/en/financial-serv ... ndex.jhtml

I believe this is the group I was referring to. As far as I know, they definitely tried to recruit for both 2L summer and 3L full-time. Good luck!

[Anonymous User]

I'm [one of?] the anons above who said s/he's coming from one of HY. I got past the OCI "screener" for one of but not the other of M/B.

I don't know the screener actually "screened" for anything besides a way to get you to list your standardized test scores, which I listed on my resume anyway.

But last year the OCI:CB % was only ~33%. Assuming passing the OCI screener means I had enough fit/behavioral interviewing presence to convince 1 interviewer, does it all come down to preparation now? I.e., is success @ case interviewing basically time put in, or does "raw ability" still have something to do with it?

FWIW, I had 800s on SAT I & SAT II math eons ago (why I'm in law school now is beyond me), which is only relevant insofar as they deem it relevant enough to ask. I'd imagine that's rare among my classmates, many of whom have joked "they didn't come to law school to do math," but maybe not among the group that self-selects into interviewing w/ MBB.

[Anonymous User]

wanted to be non-anon to allow for PMs

[Anonymous User]

keep messing up