NYC BigLaw Associates- How much after taxes? Forum

[crazycanuck]

My friends who are BigLaw take home 93k after 160k in NYC. Then they pay 25k a year for loans(if they are on the 10 year plan, some are on the 5 year plan which means they are paying about 45-50 or something). So my 10 year plan friends get 67k after taxes. Still a lot of money but not much more than I made my 3rd year out of college.

67k is barely more than I make right now straight out of UG, and I bill ~1300 hours.

[Renzo]

My friends who are BigLaw take home 93k after 160k in NYC. Then they pay 25k a year for loans(if they are on the 10 year plan, some are on the 5 year plan which means they are paying about 45-50 or something). So my 10 year plan friends get 67k after taxes. Still a lot of money but not much more than I made my 3rd year out of college.

67k is barely more than I make right now straight out of UG, and I bill ~1300 hours.

How much you make, or how much you clear after taxes and loan payments? Because you're confusing the point, it seems.

[crazycanuck]

My friends who are BigLaw take home 93k after 160k in NYC. Then they pay 25k a year for loans(if they are on the 10 year plan, some are on the 5 year plan which means they are paying about 45-50 or something). So my 10 year plan friends get 67k after taxes. Still a lot of money but not much more than I made my 3rd year out of college.

67k is barely more than I make right now straight out of UG, and I bill ~1300 hours.

How much you make, or how much you clear after taxes and loan payments? Because you're confusing the point, it seems.

After taxes, ~50k (not counting the additional $$ I get in my benefits plan which is close to 3k). 15k is not a whole lot more, especially considering the extra 1000 hours billed.

[stratocophic]

My friends who are BigLaw take home 93k after 160k in NYC. Then they pay 25k a year for loans(if they are on the 10 year plan, some are on the 5 year plan which means they are paying about 45-50 or something). So my 10 year plan friends get 67k after taxes. Still a lot of money but not much more than I made my 3rd year out of college.

67k is barely more than I make right now straight out of UG, and I bill ~1300 hours.

How much you make, or how much you clear after taxes and loan payments? Because you're confusing the point, it seems.

After taxes, ~50k (not counting the additional $$ I get in my benefits plan which is close to 3k). 15k is not a whole lot more, especially considering the extra 1000 hours billed.

New plan:

1. Stick with current job
2. ???
3. Profit

[crazycanuck]

1. Stick with current job
2. ???
3. Profit

That's my plan, law school is for schmucks.

[stratocophic]

1. Stick with current job
2. ???
3. Profit

That's my plan, law school is for schmucks.

[LawSchoolWannaBe]

Yay for no state income tax and (relatively) cheap housing in Texas!

[swc65]

Start with 160 000. Assuming you are single.
$5718.80 in city income taxes (1706 plus income above 50k taxed at 3.468%)
$10562.78 in state taxes (6.85%of all income over 20k. The first 20k is taxed at rates from 4 to 5.9%)
$36923.60 in federal taxes (ranges from 10 to 28%, all income over $82k taxed at 28%, basic personal deduction of $5700)
FICA is $6324 (all income up to 102k taxed at 6.2%)

So, you take home $100 470.83

This is probably an overly conservative estimate since I only included the basic personal deduction. I'm not a tax guy and I've never taken an accounting course but I imagine there are a whole bunch of ways to significantly reduce your tax liability.

I'm not positive that these are all the most recent rates and brackets, but it should be pretty close.

Like the other guy said, the loan question depends on how much you borrowed, how long the repayment program is, and what type of loans they are.

This is a great analysis for post-tax take-home pay. Your paycheck might be lower on a bi-weekly basis than this would indicate if you do not adjust your W-4 properly and end up being owed money at the end of the year.

[swc65]

Yay for no state income tax and (relatively) cheap housing in Texas!

Yeah that's so amazing. I have done those cost of living adjustment calculators and living in TX is like making more than 2x the salary in Manhattan!

[Renzo]

My friends who are BigLaw take home 93k after 160k in NYC. Then they pay 25k a year for loans(if they are on the 10 year plan, some are on the 5 year plan which means they are paying about 45-50 or something). So my 10 year plan friends get 67k after taxes. Still a lot of money but not much more than I made my 3rd year out of college.

67k is barely more than I make right now straight out of UG, and I bill ~1300 hours.

How much you make, or how much you clear after taxes and loan payments? Because you're confusing the point, it seems.

After taxes, ~50k (not counting the additional $$ I get in my benefits plan which is close to 3k). 15k is not a whole lot more, especially considering the extra 1000 hours billed.

True. Biglaw is a ponzi scheme. If you're "in" than the income growth more than makes up for it--but most people aren't "in;" instead they provide the slave labor that makes it worthwhile for those at the top.

[romothesavior]

Yay for no state income tax and (relatively) cheap housing in Texas!

Yeah that's so amazing. I have done those cost of living adjustment calculators and living in TX is like making more than 2x the salary in Manhattan!

Same with the Midwest. Why anyone would want to live in NYC is beyond me, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

[swc65]

Yay for no state income tax and (relatively) cheap housing in Texas!

Yeah that's so amazing. I have done those cost of living adjustment calculators and living in TX is like making more than 2x the salary in Manhattan!

Same with the Midwest. Why anyone would want to live in NYC is beyond me, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

Really? Cuz there ain't no better place in the world, doy!

[NYAssociate]

.

[thecilent]

Yay for no state income tax and (relatively) cheap housing in Texas!

Yeah that's so amazing. I have done those cost of living adjustment calculators and living in TX is like making more than 2x the salary in Manhattan!

Same with the Midwest. Why anyone would want to live in NYC is beyond me, but different strokes for different folks I guess.

Really? Cuz there ain't no better place in the world, doy!

[270910]

Team Texas: You are not wrong about how far your first year of salary will go in TX as compared to NYC. But consider the following carefully:

Baker Botts (TX) Salary Structure
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $170,000
4th year: $175,000
5th year: $175,000
6th year: $185,000
7th year: $185,000
8th year: $185,000

Fulbright & Jaworski (TX) Salary Structure:
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $165,000
3rd year: $170,000 [no more data avail.]

Shearman & Sterling (V25 NYC firm) Salary Structure:

1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $185,000
4th year: $210,000
5th year: $230,000
6th year: $250,000
7th year: $265,000
8th year: $280,000

So yeah. NYC charges more tax, and also gives out truckloads more money after the first year.

[como]

Team Texas: You are not wrong about how far your first year of salary will go in TX as compared to NYC. But consider the following carefully:

Baker Botts (TX) Salary Structure
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $170,000
4th year: $175,000
5th year: $175,000
6th year: $185,000
7th year: $185,000
8th year: $185,000

Fulbright & Jaworski (TX) Salary Structure:
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $165,000
3rd year: $170,000 [no more data avail.]

Shearman & Sterling (V25 NYC firm) Salary Structure:

1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $185,000
4th year: $210,000
5th year: $230,000
6th year: $250,000
7th year: $265,000
8th year: $280,000

So yeah. NYC charges more tax, and also gives out truckloads more money after the first year.

I'd be interested to know whether NYC has a shorter or stricter up-and-out mentality than TX though. If so, those future NYC cashflows should be discounted to reflect the diminished probability of obtaining them.

[Renzo]

Team Texas: You are not wrong about how far your first year of salary will go in TX as compared to NYC. But consider the following carefully:

Baker Botts (TX) Salary Structure
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $170,000
4th year: $175,000
5th year: $175,000
6th year: $185,000
7th year: $185,000
8th year: $185,000

Fulbright & Jaworski (TX) Salary Structure:
1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $165,000
3rd year: $170,000 [no more data avail.]

Shearman & Sterling (V25 NYC firm) Salary Structure:

1st year: $160,000
2nd year: $170,000
3rd year: $185,000
4th year: $210,000
5th year: $230,000
6th year: $250,000
7th year: $265,000
8th year: $280,000

So yeah. NYC charges more tax, and also gives out truckloads more money after the first year.

I'd be interested to know whether NYC has a shorter or stricter up-and-out mentality than TX though. If so, those future NYC cashflows should be discounted to reflect the diminished probability of obtaining them.

PPP of the NYC firms pretty much categorically destroy the PPP of other firms, even big TX, DC, and CA firms, suggesting no, there's just more money in the NYC firms.

[270910]

You can't really look at it as 'probability of obtaining'. Very few people leave big law firms anywhere because they're laid off. It's just a brutal life style, and so while certainly brutal-er in NYC than in many other markets, even if more people leave early from NYC big law it is very likely that it's a personal choice.

[270910]

PPP of the NYC firms pretty much categorically destroy the PPP of other firms, even big TX, DC, and CA firms, suggesting no, there's just more money in the NYC firms.

+1. There are a dozen plus NYC firms ahead of the fanciest most prestigiousiest DC firms in most PPP metrics, as an example. There's a reason legal work flocks to NYC, and it's not because people like paying the city's taxes.

[NYAssociate]

.

[Renzo]

Very few people leave big law firms anywhere because they're laid off. It's just a brutal life style, and so while certainly brutal-er in NYC than in many other markets

Do you actually have any basis for saying the stuff you say? I see farewell emails every day from associates going on to other opportunities, and I'm at a top NY firm. Attrition is decently high. The up-or-out mentality is pretty terrible.

I think there's a small misunderstanding of terminology here. Disco_barred is right in that very few biglaw lawyers get called in, handed a pink slip, and escorted out of the building; but that doesn't mean that the attrition is voluntary. When your performance reviews all the sudden turn sour, and no one will give you any work, that may not be a "layoff," but everyone understands what's going on.

[270910]

Very few people leave big law firms anywhere because they're laid off. It's just a brutal life style, and so while certainly brutal-er in NYC than in many other markets

Do you actually have any basis for saying the stuff you say?

Well, I work at a big law firm, I have multiple very close family members who are or were partners at big law firms, and have many friends friends at big law firms.

So, no.

No basis at all. Just making shit up.

Somehow we make posts and comments and have thoughts that I honestly think are very similar, but you're extraordinarily antagonistic whenever we interact. I don't understand it. I don't disagree with anything you wrote in your recent post. I read it twice to be sure. I don't think anything I've written in this thread even contrasts with it.

Well, except for this little gem:

Unless you're partner-track, NY biglaw makes almost no economic sense.

??? Does not compute.

[BunkMoreland]

I think the right question to ask here has already been asked: Are the exit options in Man-fucking-hattan that much better than in BIGTEXAS that once you want out of the big law game it'll have been worth it to be in NYC?

[270910]

I think the right question to ask here has already been asked: Are the exit options in Man-fucking-hattan that much better than in BIGTEXAS that once you want out of the big law game it'll have been worth it to be in NYC?

I mean, define better. I'd imagine it's easier to work for a bank after a stint in NYC big law but easier to work for an energy company after a stint in Texas, you know?

Life isn't ordinal, no matter how much law students / law school / the legal profession try to make it seem that way.

[Renzo]

I think the right question to ask here has already been asked: Are the exit options in Man-fucking-hattan that much better than in BIGTEXAS that once you want out of the big law game it'll have been worth it to be in NYC?

I mean, define better. I'd imagine it's easier to work for a bank after a stint in NYC big law but easier to work for an energy company after a stint in Texas, you know?

Life isn't ordinal, no matter how much law students / law school / the legal profession try to make it seem that way.

Right. If you want to go in-house at an energy company, a Texas firm is probably the place to be. If you want to go to one of the regulatory agencies, a DC regulatory firm is the place. If you want to go in house at Metlife, Cravath (et al.) it where you want to be. Fact is, however, that there are more "name brand" firms in NYC, and more big companies with HQs and C-levels conducting business in NYC then there are in Tx, etc.