Fordham Law School Class of 2012 Memories Forum

[extremesandwich]

So the package that contained the book, did it have anything else in it too? Because as of right now it looks like I might be s.o.l. in terms of getting it anytime soon.

It only had the student survey plus a letter regarding orientation, which didn't contain any information you won't find on the admitted students website.

Was the student survey the same thing that can be found on the admitted students website?

[silenziatori]

So the package that contained the book, did it have anything else in it too? Because as of right now it looks like I might be s.o.l. in terms of getting it anytime soon.

It only had the student survey plus a letter regarding orientation, which didn't contain any information you won't find on the admitted students website.

Was the student survey the same thing that can be found on the admitted students website?

Yeah

[OperaSoprano]

Can we talk about Case of a Lifetime? I finally got my copy today. How did you guys read it? I made the mistake of beginning the book on the 2 uptown, and nearly became a traffic fatality because I couldn't put it down long enough to cross Broadway at 72nd St. I just made it through the first chapter, and I cannot stop shaking. I seriously had to stop reading every couple of pages to take some deep breaths. Intro to the Study of Law had better not be like this!

Whatever Fordham wanted to accomplish by sending us this book, I think it worked. I should probably confess that Les Miserables (the unabridged novel) made a deep impact on me years ago. It was really, really hard to read this.

I know! It doesn't get any harder to put down. It's actually getting me interested in being a public defender. Gotta work on my fucking language though, if you catch my fucking drift (you'll get to that part).

Let me know when you all finish it! I'd love to discuss.

Finished!

I should be finished tonight. I had to stop for a day so I the apartment could be livable for my roommate. She just got here, and her kitty is so cute. Merlin won't come out of his carrier, though. It's quite funny and adorable.

Anyway, we'll soon have a couch, and table and chairs for receiving visitors! I can't wait. My god, NINE MORE DAYS!

[broach911]

I finished it as well (funny enough during jury duty). I thought the meaning and message of the book was excellent. The part with dealing with The Question was spot on. Meant even more to me since my best friend's mom had just asked me that Question and flat out told me "Well, all lawyers do is lie", so it helps to have some good counter-arguments when someone asks me The Question again.

What I did not like is the filler. The book is essentially 45 or so pages of excellent and meaningful dialogue, and about 150 pages or so of useless fluff and repetition. Perhaps this book is geared towards female lawyers (that's the vibe I got), but I just couldn't connect with the writer. I felt for her and her client a bit, but no where near the empathy I think the story was meant to garner.

Overall I thought it was decent book with some great insight on what it takes to be a lawyer, but a bit tedious in its delivery.

[silenziatori]

I finished it as well (funny enough during jury duty). I thought the meaning and message of the book was excellent. The part with dealing with The Question was spot on. Meant even more to me since my best friend's mom had just asked me that Question and flat out told me "Well, all lawyers do is lie", so it helps to have some good counter-arguments when someone asks me The Question again.

What I did not like is the filler. The book is essentially 45 or so pages of excellent and meaningful dialogue, and about 150 pages or so of useless fluff and repetition. Perhaps this book is geared towards female lawyers (that's the vibe I got), but I just couldn't connect with the writer. I felt for her and her client a bit, but no where near the empathy I think the story was meant to garner.

Overall I thought it was decent book with some great insight on what it takes to be a lawyer, but a bit tedious in its delivery.

I'm going to assume you didn't like the paragraph where she describes her confusion about which pair of sandals to buy.

[ZXCVBNM]

After trying multiple times to log on to MyForhdam and it saying it don't exist, I called the IT help desk and they said they would look in it. Has anyone had a similar issue and has been able to fix it after calling them? It's been a few days now and I haven't heard anything from them, and today it seems like there not open.

i'm having the same issue

[OperaSoprano]

I finished the book last night. I also discovered that Abbe Smith will be speaking at orientation; very exciting! In response to broach's comments, I agree that Smith put a lot of herself into this book, but I was fascinated by her emotional reaction to the case. This is the sort of thing that never gets discussed. I would imagine that representing a client like Kelly would have a profound impact on any attorney, and I found Professor Smith's own story (particularly her descriptions of how she handled very emotional moments) quite illuminating. I have the same tendency to get "involved" in things, and I suspect that I also might have to work on maintaining professional distance from clients.

I found Kelly's story immensely moving. After the first chapter, I was able to read the book without freaking out, but it was still difficult going.

Beautifully written... I appreciated this book very much, but then I am probably its intended audience.

[OperaSoprano]

OS's Annotated Orientation Schedule

Fordham University School of Law
Evening Division Orientation
Preliminary Schedule (Final Schedule will be available Day 1 of Orientation)

MONDAY, AUGUST 10, 2009
5:00 to 5:45 p.m. Registration
Location: Platt Atrium (located on First Floor of
main Law School building, 140 West 62nd Street)

5:45 to 6:15 p.m. Welcome by Dean William Michael Treanor This will be a first for me. I never got to go to ASD.
Location: McNally Amphitheater (located on First
Floor of main Law School building)

6:15 to 7:30 p.m . Skills Workshop - Writing, Briefing and
Outlining
Location: McNally Amphitheater

7:30 to 9:00 p.m. Dinner with the Board of Student Advisors and
Tour of the Law School
Location: Platt Atrium

9:00 p.m. Student Bar Association Social Event
Platt Atrium

TUESDAY, AUGUST 11, 2009
6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process

Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 12, 2009
6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process

Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


THURSDAY, AUGUST 13, 2009
6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Legal Practice
Sections 9 and 10

6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


MONDAY, AUGUST 17, 2009
6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Legal Practice
Sections 11 and 12

6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen


TUESDAY, AUGUST 18, 2009
6:00 to 7:30 p.m. Book Discussion with Abbe Smith author of:
Case of a Lifetime: A Criminal Defense
Lawyer's Story Seriously, wow.
Dinner will be served
Location: McNally Amphitheater

7:45 to 9:15 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


THURSDAY, AUGUST 20, 2009
6:00 p.m. Legal Process - Exam Turn In shivers.

6:15 to 6:45 p.m. Technology Training

7:00 to 7:45 p.m. Westlaw/Lexis Training

8:30 p.m. Social Event for both Day and Evening Students


SATURDAY, AUGUST 22, 2009 SERVICE DAY

MONDAY, AUGUST 24, 2009 FIRST DAY OF CLASSES

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 26, 2009 PUBLIC INTEREST RESOURCE CENTER
STUDENT ORGANIZATION FAIR oooooh.

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 2009 STUDENT BAR ASSOCIATION - STUDENT
ORGANIZATION FAIR

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2009 FAMILY DAY

--------------------------------------------------

One more thing; we need to pick a date for our party. We were thinking the 7th, 8th, 14th, or 15th. Any consensus about what's best for people? The location will be our lovely new apartment, once we've finished furnishing it!

[ascremer]

OS's Annotated Orientation Schedule

Fordham University School of Law
Evening Division Orientation
Preliminary Schedule (Final Schedule will be available Day 1 of Orientation)

MONDAY, AUGUST 10, 2009
5:00 to 5:45 p.m. Registration
Location: Platt Atrium (located on First Floor of
main Law School building, 140 West 62nd Street)

5:45 to 6:15 p.m. Welcome by Dean William Michael Treanor This will be a first for me. I never got to go to ASD.
Location: McNally Amphitheater (located on First
Floor of main Law School building)

6:15 to 7:30 p.m . Skills Workshop - Writing, Briefing and
Outlining
Location: McNally Amphitheater

7:30 to 9:00 p.m. Dinner with the Board of Student Advisors and
Tour of the Law School
Location: Platt Atrium

9:00 p.m. Student Bar Association Social Event
Platt Atrium

TUESDAY, AUGUST 11, 2009
6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process

Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 12, 2009
6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process

Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


THURSDAY, AUGUST 13, 2009
6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Legal Practice
Sections 9 and 10

6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


MONDAY, AUGUST 17, 2009
6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Legal Practice
Sections 11 and 12

6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen


TUESDAY, AUGUST 18, 2009
6:00 to 7:30 p.m. Book Discussion with Abbe Smith author of:
Case of a Lifetime: A Criminal Defense
Lawyer's Story Seriously, wow.
Dinner will be served
Location: McNally Amphitheater

7:45 to 9:15 p.m. Legal Process
Sections 9 and 10 Professor James Kainen
Sections 11 and 12 Professor Nicholas Johnson


THURSDAY, AUGUST 20, 2009
6:00 p.m. Legal Process - Exam Turn In shivers.

6:15 to 6:45 p.m. Technology Training

7:00 to 7:45 p.m. Westlaw/Lexis Training

8:30 p.m. Social Event for both Day and Evening Students


SATURDAY, AUGUST 22, 2009 SERVICE DAY

MONDAY, AUGUST 24, 2009 FIRST DAY OF CLASSES

WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 26, 2009 PUBLIC INTEREST RESOURCE CENTER
STUDENT ORGANIZATION FAIR oooooh.

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 2, 2009 STUDENT BAR ASSOCIATION - STUDENT
ORGANIZATION FAIR

SUNDAY, OCTOBER 18, 2009 FAMILY DAY

--------------------------------------------------

One more thing; we need to pick a date for our party. We were thinking the 7th, 8th, 14th, or 15th. Any consensus about what's best for people? The location will be our lovely new apartment, once we've finished furnishing it!

NOOOOOO! I'm arriving on the 16th =( wait for me

[OperaSoprano]

NOOOOOO! I'm arriving on the 16th =( wait for me

What about the 19th, or the 21st? You definitely have to come! We'll have libations, and possibly cupcakes from Magnolia Bakery, which is just up the street. We need to pick just the right date, though, since a few very cool people will be leaving New York in mid August.

[silenziatori]

Earlier this summer I had a conversation with a friend, a recent Fordham Law grad, who was considering criminal defense work as his career path. I wish he would have read Case of a Lifetime, because he was unable to answer The Question for himself in a way that put him at ease about criminal defense work. I agree with Broach that the book is excellent at providing answers to the Question. She appeared to arrive at "Because they could be innocent" as the best answer, which I can see could be disarming when speaking with someone who has negative preconceptions of what criminal defense work entails, but I also got the impression that the other answers she mentioned could also be satisfying, depending on context. Anyways, now I have a bunch of answers to provide if I ever get asked The Question.

I found the book very valuable for the picture it provided of what it is like to be a criminal defense lawyer.

I also have to agree with Broach that some of the writing was extraneous, and the book could have been more concise without losing meaning or emotional impact.

What did you all think of the part where she counseled the person who had sexually assaulted a little girl when he was intoxicated against pleading guilty?

OS: I'll also be arriving at NYC on the 16th. I'd be down for a party on either the 19th or the 21st.

[the fledgling]

My two cents on Case of Lifetime:

Smith seems to me to be an intelligent, intense, and forthright person. The book is as much about her as it is about Kelly, and of course all of the greater (and sometimes frightening) topics that go along with their stories. Although I did not always relate to Smith, I appreciated her candor--her straight up honesty. As OS mentioned, Smith's perspective is one we don't often see in these types of stories, and I personally think that it made the book all the more interesting.

I haven't really considered criminal law as a path I wanted to pursue, nor do I know many people who consider lawyers to be shady manipulators who represent horrible, horrible people (I have a terrific bunch of friends and family ) so "the Question" has never really come up. Smith's variety of answers were the best of the crop I think, but the possibility that the defendant is innocent (the ultimate response to the Question according to Smith, and I'm inclined to agree) seemed rather obvious to me. Of course innocent people do occasionally get accused of awful things. That's why the defendant is innocent until proven guilty. But Smith phrased the section in a way that seemed to suggest most people don't think this way. And that made me think, is it really true? Does society really look at a defendant and automatically think "guilty"? Maybe I'm being naive here, but I do like to think that when it comes to determining whether or not someone will spend the rest of their life in jail, many if not most of us will not take the decision so lightly.

To answer your question, Silenz, about the section regarding the one-time child abuser--I found that part difficult to stomach. I don't know if I'll ever be able to do what Smith did. I can, from a certain angle, understand why she did what she did. She had to meet her obligations to her client. She's a professional, that's her job. It's also possible that she didn't disclose details about the case that would have made the offense seem less egregious, but that would seem pretty counterintuitive when coming from a defense attorney. At best, I have mixed feelings on the topic.

Overall though, I think the book is a valuable teaching tool. Many discussions could sprout from it. I'm looking forward to seeing Smith speak at Orientation.

And I'm already in the city (finally moved in!) but have commitments on the 14th/15th. Pretty much any day after that works for me

[broach911]

The part with the sexual offender really hit me. Those are issues that really leave me blank as to how I would react if I were in a similar situation. Same as trying to convince someone who is innocent to take a plea deal. I know I should do what's right for the client but to let that guy go, or to have an innocent person admit guilt where there is none, phew talk about disheartening.

Anyway I'm flying up on Tuesday, but my move comes all throughout the week, and then my parents come to check out the city so I''ll be free anytime after the 15/16.

[ascremer]

The part with the sexual offender really hit me. Those are issues that really leave me blank as to how I would react if I were in a similar situation. Same as trying to convince someone who is innocent to take a plea deal. I know I should do what's right for the client but to let that guy go, or to have an innocent person admit guilt where there is none, phew talk about disheartening.

Anyway I'm flying up on Tuesday, but my move comes all throughout the week, and then my parents come to check out the city so I''ll be free anytime after the 15/16.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who would prefer a date after the 16tj! As long as there is no Fordham event in the evening both 19 and 21 work for me!
I'm excited to meet you all!

[OperaSoprano]

I just talked with Bostonlegal, my roommate, and it sounds like the 21st is better for people in the day program, since it's a Friday night. I'm going to speak to a few people who are leaving New York, and make sure they'll still be here then. If so, we'll plan for the 21st.

Honestly, the most surprising thing in Smith's book was her emphasis on acting in the client's interest. I believe in grand, heroic gestures; I probably would have supported Kelly in her refusal to take a plea. Whether this would truly have been in Kelly's interest is a matter open to debate.

While I have little personal sympathy for someone who would molest a child while on drugs, I strongly believe that everyone has the right to a defense attorney who will truly act in his or her interest. To do any less would be to violate the spirit of these protections. The important thing, in my opinion, would be to get the man out of any situation in which he could do something like this again. Drug treatment comes to mind. I won't attempt to judge Smith's actions; I don't have the necessary expertise to make a fair analysis of them. Certainly the crime was heinous, and Smith was in a difficult position.

I know I can't wait to hear Abbe Smith speak. Our school picked quite astutely, and yeah, I I'm still thinking about that criminal defense clinic.

[jrock12]

hey guys,

was just away on vacay for 5 days, and did my best to keep up, but TLS doesn't look so great on blackberry...so just got through the last few pages...

i'm just curious...did anyone confirm that the bookstore website is updated for this semester's textbooks?
if so, did anyone have any luck getting books cheaper elsewhere? i was not sure if sites like amazon/etc sell out quickly or get backed up around times like this (i never went anywhere but the campus bookstore in UG, so i have little to no experience)

like everyone else, i'd obviously like to get them asap, but i'm a little hesitant in ordering books that i'm not certain are the right ones

[silenziatori]

hey guys,

was just away on vacay for 5 days, and did my best to keep up, but TLS doesn't look so great on blackberry...so just got through the last few pages...

i'm just curious...did anyone confirm that the bookstore website is updated for this semester's textbooks?
if so, did anyone have any luck getting books cheaper elsewhere? i was not sure if sites like amazon/etc sell out quickly or get backed up around times like this (i never went anywhere but the campus bookstore in UG, so i have little to no experience)

like everyone else, i'd obviously like to get them asap, but i'm a little hesitant in ordering books that i'm not certain are the right ones

I looked into prices of the books on Amazon and compared them to the bookstore's prices. A couple of books you can get new on Amazon for almost the same price as buying a used version from the bookstore. A couple of books I couldn't even find new versions of on Amazon, and the sellers were selling them for more than what a new version of the book would cost at the bookstore. Overall, it was a mixed bag.

I think it's definitely worth the time to comparison shop because you could end up saving hundreds.

[the fledgling]

Are we sure as to whether or not that are the books, though? Maybe. I will personally be buying my books in the order I receive the syllabi, or at least that's my ideal plan.

In the meantime I'll comparison shop the rest and keep a tabbed list of where I'll buy (and how much time I have to buy it at x price) until I get the syllabi. I'm hoping to get this done before the 17th.

[jrock12]

Are we sure as to whether or not that are the books, though? Maybe. I will personally be buying my books in the order I receive the syllabi, or at least that's my ideal plan.

In the meantime I'll comparison shop the rest and keep a tabbed list of where I'll buy (and how much time I have to buy it at x price) until I get the syllabi. I'm hoping to get this done before the 17th.

i'm with you fledg...i'm in a holding pattern until i find/hear something a little more concrete

[silenziatori]

In the meantime I'll comparison shop the rest and keep a tabbed list of where I'll buy (and how much time I have to buy it at x price) until I get the syllabi. I'm hoping to get this done before the 17th.

i'm with you fledg...i'm in a holding pattern until i find/hear something a little more concrete

Yep, me too. We don't even know who all our professors are at this point. I don't trust that the bookstore has the correct information for these classes yet, though it is possible they do.

[jrock12]

thanks guys...just wanted to make sure i was at least on the same page

[SmittyLaw]

Hey Everyone!

I'm in day program, Section 3. I live in Brooklyn.

[ascremer]

Welcome Smittylaw! We are in the same section!

[sentinal5656]

where did everyone buy the legal process textbook from? Are we suppose to complete the reading for it before orientation?

[the fledgling]

Sentinal, I bought my legal process book at Fordham's bookstore ($45), though it is available online and was available in the Union Square B&N for less money.

RE: Health Insurance. According to http://www.fordham.edu/campus_resources ... e_1526.asp "Fall Semester enrollment via site portal will be available shortly." They seem to have taken down the details, unless that was a different webpage.

Figured I'd share because, next to loans, health insurance has the most potential to make me paranoid (I lose my UHC coverage on the 14th ).

Anyone have any news on bills/loans, btw?