J.D./M.B.A. Rankings Forum

[seanpatin]

Going specifically off of the combined school rankings in USNWR. The number in parentheses is the school's law school rank added to their business school rank.

1. Harvard University (3)
2. Stanford University (4)
3. University of Pennsylvania (9)
4. University of Chicago (11)
5. Columbia University (13)
6. New York University (14)
7. Yale University (15)
8. University of California - Berkeley (16)
9. Northwestern University (17)
10. University of Michigan (19)
11. Duke University (22)
11. University of Virginia (22)
13. Cornell University (27)
14. University of California - Los Angeles (31)
15. University of Texas (36)
16. University of Southern California (37)
17. Georgetown University (39)
18. Emory University (42)
19. University of Minnesota (45)
20. Washington University (47)
21. Vanderbilt University (50)
22. Ohio State University (53)
23. University of North Carolina (54)
24. University of Washington (57)
25. Indiana University - Bloomington (60)
25. University of Wisconsin (60)
27. Boston University (61)
27. University of Maryland (61)
29. University of Illinois (62)
30. Boston College (67)
30. University of Notre Dame (67)
32. University of Iowa (74)
33. University of California - Davis (80)
34. University of Georgia (82)
35. University of Florida (84)
36. Wake Forest University (85)
36. Brigham Young University (85)
38. Tulane University (92)
38. Arizona State University (92)
40. Pennsylvania State University (125)


Of course, this only applies to schools ranked by USNWR, so it might be somewhat lacking towards the bottom portion.

[MP]

Are you considering a JD/MBA, Sean?

[seanpatin]

no.. of course not.

[dagomuscles]

why'd you add the numbers, versus just listing in parenthesis the business school or law school rank? I'm confusssseedd....

[seanpatin]

cuz that was how I ranked them.... for instance Harvard was #1 business and #2 low.... wheareas Yale is #1 law and #14 business.... so we have Harvard with a 3 and Yale with a 15... that was the basis for my rankings if that makes sense.

[num23bulls]

.

[seanpatin]

I was just kind of making a rough idea of what schools had some of the best B-schools and Law School combinations really... it wasn't very scientific I know and probably quite inaccurate as you said.

[highlyappealing]

There was an interesting article in the NYT this weekend about a study recently authored that investigated the role business school ties play in the investment of certain companies/funds. The authors argue that fund managers will invest more money in companies that are run by colleagues/alumni of their college or business school. Apparently these investments do better than the average. There are some interesting reasons as to why that's the case.

I've always assumed usually MBA degrees are just value added in terms of the name and the social connections they bring, not in terms of education, and this definitely put a unique take on that.

[jdmba]

I think this is a fair way to quickly rank JD/MBA programs. Another factor I would include is the size of the program. Northwestern, Tulane, and NYU are all making a push to create sizable programs. Tulane already has roughly 25 current JD/MBA candidates. See here: --LinkRemoved--

Would it make sense to put Berkeley's program ahead of Northwestern's, if Berkeley had 1 candidate and Northwestern had 20?

I might factor in USNews rankings as 75% of the equation, and size of the program as 25%. If two schools were similarly ranked, the larger JD/MBA program would win.

[Pyke]

Question is, would a school with 20 applicants have a higher quality of education then those with 10?

[Go Bears]

Don't forget Northwestern's program is just three years. Most are four.

[dat_raw_n_tellect]

for Bschool you can also look at Wall St Jnl, Forbes, etc. for rankings.

Agreed. Business Week has rankings as well, I believe.

[jdmba]

I think the number of JD/MBA candidates in a given program would affect the quality of education, employment opportunities, and networking opportunities.

A program with only 10 candidates means that you have only 2.5 JD/MBA candidates per graduating class. This presents two problems: First, some employers that typically prefer JD/MBAs (e.g., Exxon tax departent, Entergy Corp., the SEC, etc.) will be more eager to spend time recruiting at schools that have more JD/MBAs. Second, and perhaps more importantly, JD/MBAs want to network with one another. They want to share ideas-- both academic and career-oriented. The books/professors at a school ranked 20th and a school ranked 25th will be indistinguishable to most people. The biggest difference will be the quality of the classmates you meet. For a JD/MBA candidate, this means meeting other JD/MBA candidates, who share similar academic and career objectives. For example, a younger JD/MBA might want to speak with an older JD/MBA who has both legal and investment banking experience. A larger program would facilitate this.

Of course, I am not suggesting that the size of the JD/MBA program supercedes all other ranking considerations. However, I think it does deserve to be a factor accounting for roughly 15 to 35 percent of the calculation. This would not dictate the overall ranking. Rather, it would differeniate between schools that were otherwise similarly ranked. This factor is paricularly important considering that some of these schools have relatively few JD/MBA candidates.

[Unadilla Kayaker]

My plan is to go to law school this year and apply for an MBA program next year. Upon choosing my law school (which I think matters more than the MBA program, at least to me), I will ask them which schools they will take credit from (likely I will do the MBA in the school's program, but wouldn't mind being able to attend a different university for a year and a half). For me, I think that a thorough understanding of the business concepts I am not as familiar with will dovetail nicely with a knowledge of the law if I go in either direction or a third.

Also, I did the exact same ranking as OP in my law school information spreadsheet. It's as good of an indicator as anything. Also, I think many schools still frown upon JD/MBAs (since they want you to focus on the law) and finding alums will be hard but not impossible.

[capitalacq]

I hope no one even considers this combined rank when choosing a program. You're either going into a field that focuses on a JD or a MBA, not both. Even for the very few firms who specifically look for these candidates, one ranking weighs more than the other.

Also, schools do not frown upon JD/MBAs.

And the JD/MBA class size does not really matter. It's the total JD AND MBA class size that matters.

[anibulbul]

My plan is to go to law school this year and apply for an MBA program next year. Upon choosing my law school (which I think matters more than the MBA program, at least to me), I will ask them which schools they will take credit from (likely I will do the MBA in the school's program, but wouldn't mind being able to attend a different university for a year and a half). For me, I think that a thorough understanding of the business concepts I am not as familiar with will dovetail nicely with a knowledge of the law if I go in either direction or a third.

Also, I did the exact same ranking as OP in my law school information spreadsheet. It's as good of an indicator as anything. Also, I think many schools still frown upon JD/MBAs (since they want you to focus on the law) and finding alums will be hard but not impossible.

Do you know any b-schools that would let you apply JD credits earned at another school towards your MBA? I highly doubt it's possible, but would love to be wrong because it sounds interesting.

[Unadilla Kayaker]

My plan is to go to law school this year and apply for an MBA program next year. Upon choosing my law school (which I think matters more than the MBA program, at least to me), I will ask them which schools they will take credit from (likely I will do the MBA in the school's program, but wouldn't mind being able to attend a different university for a year and a half). For me, I think that a thorough understanding of the business concepts I am not as familiar with will dovetail nicely with a knowledge of the law if I go in either direction or a third.

Also, I did the exact same ranking as OP in my law school information spreadsheet. It's as good of an indicator as anything. Also, I think many schools still frown upon JD/MBAs (since they want you to focus on the law) and finding alums will be hard but not impossible.

Do you know any b-schools that would let you apply JD credits earned at another school towards your MBA? I highly doubt it's possible, but would love to be wrong because it sounds interesting.

I know schools have done it for other programs (UVA & Princeton if I'm not mistaken). It's worth asking. I figure that the business school will probably have to be higher ranked than the law school. I think it'll take work and convincing, but it can be done. It's just difficult since you will have to spend a year and a half in another place. Will tell you next year when I know more.

[legends159]

I know a couple of ppl doing JD/MBA and I'm always just thinking why?

[bree]

I think for a lot of people who do a JD/MBA it's about "keeping your options open." It's correct to say that you'll likely pick to do something that uses either your MBA or your JD but probably not both. This is true even in situations where there is an obvious synergy (gosh, MBAspeak) between the two degrees (e.g. securities law/regulation). I know that sometimes law firms will give you a signing bonus for being a JD/MBA (e.g. Kirkland Ellis) and that they start you as a second year associate. Finally, law firms are a little more lenient on the grades when you do both degrees.

One more thing, if you are planning to apply for the MBA your first year of law school, try to go to a school where the law school is better than the business school. This will make your application process much easier. The business school thinks you're smart already and they look at you like they would an early decision candidate (b-schools don't have ED).

[Warbucks]

Because this is one of the first hits that comes up when you search for JD/MBA rankings I felt compelled to say that the methodology used herein is poor and probably will mislead some JD/MBA hopefuls if they also happen to be prestige-whores.

The OP's methodology looks simply at their chronological ranking which doesn't take into account the difference between individual programs. That is, it's a calculus that behaves as if the #1 program and the #3 program are very, very close. In the context of an entire list (1-100) I suppose they are but in terms of comparing the two programs that might not be true at all.

I think it's best to look at quality ranking and as such I've compiled a list of schools with their JD program's quality ranking added to their MBA program's quality ranking. I've also put it in a more visual form so you can better see the difference between schools.

200
199
198
197
196
195--Harvard
194
193
192--Stanford
191
190
189
188
187
186
185--Yale
184
183
182
181
180
179
178
177
176--U Chicago
175--U Penn
174--Columbia
173--Northwestern
172
171
170--NYU

This list more accurately reflects the weight of each degree.


*I used this for my numbers.

For the record, saying you got your Columbia or NYU JD is more impressive than saying you got your U PENN, Northwestern or Chicago JD and saying you got your U Penn, Northwestern or Chicago MBA is more impressive than saying you got your Columbia or NYU MBA (and in some cases [Columbia JD, Wharton MBA] it's much more impressive than the others] but this list supposes that you're at a conference of JD/MBAs and you're trying to one-up the next guy. (FTR: Don't live like this.) However, as such, you must accept both the boost and drag your school has.

[MoS]

Going specifically off of the combined school rankings in USNWR. The number in parentheses is the school's law school rank added to their business school rank.

1. Harvard University (3)
2. Stanford University (4)
3. University of Pennsylvania (9)
4. University of Chicago (11)
5. Columbia University (13)
6. New York University (14)
7. Yale University (15)
8. University of California - Berkeley (16)
9. Northwestern University (17)
10. University of Michigan (19)
11. Duke University (22)
11. University of Virginia (22)
13. Cornell University (27)
14. University of California - Los Angeles (31)
15. University of Texas (36)
16. University of Southern California (37)
17. Georgetown University (39)
18. Emory University (42)
19. University of Minnesota (45)
20. Washington University (47)
21. Vanderbilt University (50)
22. Ohio State University (53)
23. University of North Carolina (54)
24. University of Washington (57)
25. Indiana University - Bloomington (60)
25. University of Wisconsin (60)
27. Boston University (61)
27. University of Maryland (61)
29. University of Illinois (62)
30. Boston College (67)
30. University of Notre Dame (67)
32. University of Iowa (74)
33. University of California - Davis (80)
34. University of Georgia (82)
35. University of Florida (84)
36. Wake Forest University (85)
36. Brigham Young University (85)
38. Tulane University (92)
38. Arizona State University (92)
40. Pennsylvania State University (125)


Of course, this only applies to schools ranked by USNWR, so it might be somewhat lacking towards the bottom portion.

SMU adds to 96, so they would be number 40

[englawyer]

I think it's best to look at quality ranking and as such I've compiled a list of schools with their JD program's quality ranking added to their MBA program's quality ranking. I've also put it in a more visual form so you can better see the difference between schools.

this is very clever. good job

[imchuckbass58]

\
I think it's best to look at quality ranking and as such I've compiled a list of schools with their JD program's quality ranking added to their MBA program's quality ranking. I've also put it in a more visual form so you can better see the difference between schools.

I think this is a good way to get a general idea, but I'd add that it rarely works out like this in real life (I don't think you were implying it does).

Usually one degree is "primary" and the other is "secondary." If you were headed into law, most people would probaby choose an NYU JD/MBA over a Northwestern JD/MBA. If you were headed into finance, most people would probably choose a Wharton JD/MBA over a Yale JD/MBA.

I'd also add that business schools also have a lot of variation between specialties and student choice follows the rankings a lot less. Anecdotally (I don't have stats to back this up, but from my experience it's pretty true), most people would choose Columbia Business School over Chicago GSB in a head-to-head, even though the latter is ranked higher. Similarly, a very significant majority would choose Wharton over Kellogg, even though they're tied, though it might be the reverse if you wanted to go into marketing.

Again, don't think you were trying to suggest otherwise, and I think this is good to get a general idea. Just want to caveat this for people who might be looking.

[englawyer]

Columbia Business School over Chicago GSB

agreed, especially if you are interested in NYC

[kurama20]

I'd also add that business schools also have a lot of variation between specialties and student choice follows the rankings a lot less. Anecdotally (I don't have stats to back this up, but from my experience it's pretty true), most people would choose Columbia Business School over Chicago GSB in a head-to-head, even though the latter is ranked higher. Similarly, a very significant majority would choose Wharton over Kellogg, even though they're tied, though it might be the reverse if you wanted to go into marketing.

The bolded is simply untrue. Booth is definitely more respected than Columbia Business school and it has the second best finance program in the country.