Law School Advice (T10)

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Wahoo1L
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Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Wahoo1L » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:00 am

Introduction
After reading Arrow's post (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77628) on his (maybe her, but I thought Arrow was a guy, no offense if I'm wrong) experiences with doing well in law school, I decided to write a similar article about my experiences. Looking over his post, everything that he said seems to be great advice especially his discussion about thinking like a lawyer. My post will mostly be a discussion about how I went about my 1L year, and what I think is good advice for incoming students.

0L Prep
During the summer before my first year I planned on preparing for law school based on the mentality that it couldn't hurt. I ordered the Glannon Guides for civil procedure, and a contracts supplement. I didn't end up reading either of them before law school and don't think that it really mattered at all.

After having gone through 1L year, my advice to prospective law students is to read Getting to Maybe. Getting to Maybe focuses on how to take a law school exam which is by far the most important skill to master at law school. Other supplements that teach you the law are far less valuable than learning how to think about the law. From my experience and discussions that I've had with other students who have also scored well on law school exams, the key is not knowing the law but rather being able to articulate it well. By the time you take the exam, you should have a fairly solid grasp of the law, and if you don't have understand the law by the time the exam comes around then I seriously doubt reading supplements before law school would have solved your problem. Another potential pitfall of reading other sorts of supplements before law school begins is that you could potentially learn extraneous information which might cause you to discuss irrelevant issues on the exam.

I did not use LEEWS, Planet Law School, or Law School Confidential and will not express any opinions about them; however, I fail to see how using several colors of highlighter helps anyone. From reading Arrow's post, it seems that LEEWS might be beneficial in a way that is similar to [Getting to Maybe; however, I have no personal experience with LEEWS.

Class Preparation/Classes
Most other advice threads seem to focus on skimming the casebook and focusing on supplements. The reason many people suggest taking such an approach is because these students find it easier to extract the law from hornbooks which is reasonable. My approach to class was slightly different, and focused a bit more on using the casebook to extract the rules. When reading I would skim the facts of the case, and concentrate on understanding the court's reasoning. Keep in mind reading is only useful in so far as it will help you with the final exam, and if you find that reading is not helping you extract rules and reasoning then supplements might be a better choice for you.

As far as briefing, I did not brief after the second week of class or use any method of highlighting. While reading I would take notes in the margins and underline important sections of the text. In my opinion, briefing is only useful to help when called on by a professor. Worrying about being called on is one of the most over hyped aspects of law school and is completely irrelevant as far as your final grade. When underlining, I would focus mostly on the rules that the court applies or chooses not to apply, the policy reasons that underlie the rule, and various factors that the court uses to determine which way to rule.

In class, I would take notes on things that I thought were important or things that the professor emphasized. From my experience, law professors usually emphasize things they think are important which should be noted. If you notice something that you think will be on the exam, you should mark this in your notes. To get the most out of class, it is almost certainly a bad idea to simply transcribe what the professor is discussing; rather, you should attempt to extract the rules and the reason courts use a particular rule. One reason that I think I did well was that I was able to explain not just what rule a court would likely use but also why the court would use such a rule (see Arrow's discussion of Legal Thinking).

Finally, a problem that I had in class was that I would often zone out or browse the internet. While I did end up doing well in spite of my short attention span, it is almost certainly more beneficial to tune into the entire lecture.

Gunning and Class
Was I a gunner/did I ask a lot of questions? Not at all. I would occasionally comment in class or respond to a question, but this was about once every two weeks. I fail to see how commenting in class or asking a question in literally every class can help with grades, especially considering that all classes are graded blindly. If I had a legitimate question, I would ask after class where I would get a complete answer and wouldn't have to worry about distracting the professor from other important information.

Outlining
As far as outlining, I ended up outlining fairly differently than most other advice would recommend. Here is how I would outline;

First, I would obtain an old outline, although I would not copy the substance or the form of the outline. My main use for the old outline was to see if I missed any important points (i.e. if I zoned out for 30 minutes in Property).

Second, after obtaining an old outline, I sat down with my class notes and the casebook, and began editing my class notes and inserting any rules from the casebook into my notes. While outlining I would reread the cases and the notes included after the cases and add any pertinent information from the cases or notes. There are two reasons that I would do this; first, the notes at the end of the cases often explain nuances in the law which can often be used on the final. Most of the times these issues will not come up on the final, although when they do I feel you can score extra points by using them (this is sort of what Xeoh85 is talking about when (s)he is discussing seeing things a professor might not of thought of, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36635). The notes at the end of the case often discuss the reason why a court uses a particular rule which can help you rack up points on the final by throwing in some additional information about a rule that other students might not include. To me, it seems that most students pay little attention to these notes at the end of the case because they are rarely asked about in class. Second, by rereading the cases you can include the language that the court uses in your outline. By using the same language the court uses, it might help signal to the professor exactly what issue you are discussing. Going over the cases again can also help you draw out various factors that the court uses when it determines what law to apply.

Unique Parts of my Outline
There are three sort of unique things that I included in my outlines; the first is a section called "Exam Spiels." The Exam Spiel section is basically a half page of fairly pre-scripted passages that I can include on my exam. These exam spiels helped me include all relevant information about a particular subject in a generic paragraph. Often times, these Exam Spiels would be on issues that the professor made a point to emphasize or that would come up in pretty much every practice exam. All professors forbid you from copying and pasting which means that you will have to retype this material during the exam. Additionally, some professors might not allow you to use these so pay attention to the professor's instructions about what material you are allowed to use on the exam. For most classes, I would have about two exam spiels that were usually about two or three lines. An example of an exam spiel would be something like the following (albeit in an abbreviated version):

"The defendant will most likely claim strict constructionism as a defense. Strict constructionism is the idea that a Court should construe a statute in the most favorable light to the defendant. The reason court's claim to adhere to strict constructionism is so that the defendant has fair warning about whether or not something is illegal. Although most courts claim to adhere to strict constructionism, none actually do because it would result in the defendant always winning if there is any plausible ambiguity in the law. Therefore, the court will not likely use strict constructionism."

If you notice, this part of my exam would be very general, although it would incorporate all my ideas about a particular topic. It both explains what a Court would likely do, and the rationale for both the rule and a counterpoint to the rule. During the exam you should tailor your answer to the actual exam so that you add more detail and tease out all of the relevant facts from the hypo.

Edit: Looking back at my outlines, I only used these on about half of my exams. Some classes and professors are more suited to these than others.

The second unique feature of my outlines was that I would outline model answers to a particular question. For some classes, it is useful to create model answers for different fact patterns that might come up. Doing this helped me conceptualize how I wanted to answer a question if it came up on the exam. In Torts, I created a model answer that looked something like this (I just made this up off the top of my head);

Duty
• Is there a duty?
• Where is it derived?
• Who has a duty to whom?

Breach of Duty
• If there is a duty, how narrowly should that duty be construed?
o Analyze incentives, how widely do we want the duty to be breached?

Causation
• Is the breach of duty a cause in fact of the plaintiff's harm? Discuss whether defendant's breach actually caused the harm to the defendant.
• 'But For' Causation. Does it meet the 'harm within the risk' test, analyze things such as foreseeability.

Damages
• Make the obvious point that damages would result.

Lastly, my outlines looked very dissimilar to other outlines. Most people had outlines that would just be straight down, similar to this;

I. Intentional Torts
a. Battery
i. Element #1 of battery
ii. Element #2 of battery
b. Assault
i. Element #1 of Assault

My outlines were more thematic and did not look like other outlines. This was based on personal preference. I was very meticulous in formatting my outlines which probably was a waste of time, but I enjoyed doing it.

If anyone would like to see one of my outlines, or an actual exam spiel that I included in my outline feel free to send me a PM. The important point about outlining is not the finished product, but rather the time and effort that goes into reviewing the cases and rules.

Exam Prep
The best piece of advice that I can give is to do practice tests, and actually write out the answers. When preparing for an exam, you should attempt to finish your outline a few weeks before the end of classes, and then simply add in the material that is discussed at the end. Make sure you add this material in, in Civil Procedure, I forgot to add the material from the last day of class and didn't realize this until the third question of the exam.

After finishing your outlines, you can usually find copies of the professor's old exams in the library or wherever your school has them. Attempt to do as many practice tests as you can, and then either compare those tests to the model answer or find another person to compare your answer to. For my professors, there were very few model answers on file so I chose to compare my answers to another sectionmate. Although I generally felt that my study partner knew the law better than I did, I was far better at analyzing the law (such as the reasons underlying the law, and different potential interpretations of facts). I would discuss the exam with professor if you have any specific questions.

If your school has practice midterms that the professor actually grades, it would be beneficial to take these seriously even though they won't affect your grade. Putting in your best effort helps you gauge where you are in your understanding of law school.

Taking Exams
Exams will account for 95% of employment prospects and are the most important part about law school. Every bit of preparation that do you during the semester is designed to get the best possible grade on your exam. Before the exam, it is important to get on a steady sleep pattern and to be at pique physical performance for those 4 hours.

When actually taking the exam, there are three important things to remember. First, every sentence is important. If a professor is putting something in the fact pattern it is almost certainly important even if it seems outlandish. If you are reading a sentence or two and not writing something on your exam about it, then you are probably missing an issue.

My second piece of advice to use headings. On an exam, I will often bracket what issue I am discussing by using headings. Most essays that I read from other students would simply separate issues by paragraphs, whereas on my exam I would use headings. Using headings help flag to your professor where you are talking about a particular issue and can help you give important background or policy reasons that are relevant to the issue at hand.

An additional benefit of using headings is that you better frame issues through the use of subheadings. Subheadings can be beneficial to pinpoint exactly where you are discussing an issue. The point of an exam is not just to throw a wall of information at your professor but to coherently demonstrate your knowledge about that subject. Arrow's post confirmed my belief that headings were at least partially responsible for my success.

The last piece of advice is to tease out all potential areas of analysis. Most facts that are included in a professor's exams can be argued in multiple ways. A law school exam is not simply applying the law to facts but analyzing what those facts mean. Often times law school exams have many facts that are somewhat ambiguous and these ambiguities can affect the legal analysis, this is thoroughly explained in Getting to Maybe(I believe Arrow also commented on this in his discussion of a sample exam answer). When discussing issues, I would often include lettered lists when analyzing issues that had multiple prongs. For instance, when analyzing whether the four unities of a joint tenancy had been satisfied, I would included a lettered list something like this;

"For this transaction it is possible the four unities have been satisfied because; (a) Time, blah blah, (b) Title, more explanation, (c) Interest, both had the same type of interest, and (d) Possession, both could possess the whole property."

Integrating these lettered lists helps prevent your professor from overlooking one of your points. Some professors just check off when you make a point, and give you points accordingly. By highlighting where you are making a point, this helps limit the amount that a professor will make a small mistake in grading your paper.

Summary of Exam Tips
1. Stay healthy
2. Every sentence matters
3. Use headings
4. Analyze both sides of the issue (Explained thoroughly in Getting to Maybe)

Grades
A lot of people argue that grades are arbitrary, I would have to disagree. While it might be true that there isn't that big of a difference on the margins such as between the worst A- exam, and the best B+ exam, I believe that there is quite a bit of difference between the average A- exam and the average B+ exam. From reading my friends exam who finished at the median and comparing it to my exams, the detail that I went into on my exams was far greater.

Supplements
Did I use supplements?
Yup, but only when I wasn't clear on an issue. If the professor clearly explained an issue and I understood everything in casebook, I didn't feel there was a need to go outside of the text to study an issue. In my opinion, knowing more than was taught about a particular issue can only lead to discussing erroneous things on the exam. A professor is not going to be putting hypotheticals on the exam that are meant to test issues not covered in the text or in class. If you discuss an issue that clearly wasn't covered, I find it hard to believe you will get many points on that particular section. Further, by spending this time on an issue clearly outside the bounds of the class, you will be under covering other important issues that were covered in class, and are being tested.

Are there any I would recommend?
Not really. If the professor wrote a supplement, you should clearly use that. Other than that, just choose the ones that work well for you. For contracts and criminal law, I used supplements sparingly. For constitutional law I used Cherminksy, and for civil procedure I used Glannon. I read a hodge podge of books for Property, and Abraham's book for Torts.

Work/Life Balance
Based on my experience, I had an excellent work/life balance. During the first few months of the semester, I would essentially just read the casebook and go to class. I had plenty of time to watch television, do sports, play video games, and other activities. If I had to venture a guess, I would say that I did about 3 hours of work outside of class during the first part of the semester. During the last month, I worked quite a bit more although still found time to have fun. Before exams it is important to make sure that you know the material and are finished outlining in time to do practice exams. In my opinion, law school is about how well you can take law school exams, not how hard you work or whether you know every detail of the law.

Other Advice
I would read and follow the advice that both Arrow and Xeoh85 gave. Most top students seem to suggest many of the same things such as taking practice tests, learning how to take tests (either through LEEWS or Getting to Maybe), and focusing on the exam. Of particular note, I would take a close look at Arrow's advice on Legal Thinking and on the Final Exam, and read everything Xeoh85 said. When taking advice from top students, I don't think there is much difference between T14 students and other schools. My Constitutional Law professor also suggested this after having taught at Chicago, Tulane and here.

Transferring
Did I consider it? Not really. I'm not really sure what opportunities I would gain by transferring to HYS. If I were interested in academia, I think that finishing at the top of my class here would allow me to have access to similar opportunities as transferring to HY. I'd also be giving up a stellar GPA with the chance of finishing poorly at a new school.

Conclusion
If anybody has any questions about my approach to studying or law school in general feel free to post or PM me. I'll gladly help out any future 1L's. Best of luck!
Last edited by Wahoo1L on Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:40 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Arrow
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Arrow » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:24 am

Wahoo1L wrote: I ordered the Glannon Guides for civil procedure, and a contracts supplement.


You gunner. Don't lie.
J/k


Nice format bite.
J/k (My format comes from LEEWS anyways)

Wahoo1L this is a fantastic post!

Thank you for your input and I am glad that others are able to describe their successes. Congrats on a spectacular 1L and your tips actually help me out as well. I feel like your approach is equally effective (if not better), and I definitely feel like top students will often end up taking your approach (instead of mine).

I am sure you weren't all about epic having fun if you made it into UVA (you studied super hard, admit it). :wink:

Yah, I uber dig this post and will link it in my post. For the record, I am a guy. Arrow = sexy male phallic symbol right?

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Kohinoor
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Kohinoor » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:30 am

This could use a sticky along with similar threads.

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CE2JD
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby CE2JD » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:57 pm

1) make this into a book
2) profit

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Wahoo1L
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Wahoo1L » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:42 pm

Ah. Nope, a Wahoo is also a nickname for Virginia.

seeker63
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby seeker63 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:45 pm

Exam spiel seems kinda sketchy. You may want to read your school's specific academic honor code before writing general answers in an outline with the intent to copy them word-for-word on an exam.

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frank_the_tank
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby frank_the_tank » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:48 pm

dfgasdfgds

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Wahoo1L
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Wahoo1L » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:48 pm

seeker63 wrote:Exam spiel seems kinda sketchy. You may want to read your school's specific academic honor code before writing general answers in an outline with the intent to copy them word-for-word on an exam.


Agreed. Always listen to the professors instructions (the honor code is the same for every class, professors instructions on the exam are what is important). For example, some professors allow you to literally use anything you want, while others give you closed book exams, some allow you to use an outline but not transcribe things, others allow the internet for specific purposes (i.e. online calculators). And, if you have are concerned over whether something is against the rules always ere on the side of caution.

Another note: When I would use an exam spiel on an exam, it would not be word for word, rather I would integrate facts from the hypo into my exam spiel. Remember, every professor that I've heard of prohibits copying and pasting from an outline or other document during an exam.

Edit:Edited the first post to make it clear that you should check your professors' exam rules before using exam spiels.
Last edited by Wahoo1L on Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dman
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Dman » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:05 pm

Good stuff!

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lawlover829
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby lawlover829 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:07 pm

nice one.

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iceberger
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby iceberger » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:15 pm

YCrevolution wrote:
extragnarls wrote:
Kiana wrote:Thank you for posting this!


+1. Much appreciated.

Ditto.



+1 Bookmarked, Bookmarked, Bookmarked

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chadwick218
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby chadwick218 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:16 pm

+1 ... great post!

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wiseowl
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby wiseowl » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:39 pm

congrats

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thesealocust
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:25 pm

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ken
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Ken » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:25 am

Yahoo Wahoo!! This is indeed a great post. Wahoo, with your permission I am going to aggregate some of the excellent advice on succeeding in law school (with a particular focus on the all important first year) and combine this into an article giving credit to the TLS authors who are paying it forward and making TLS a better place.

The article will have sections written by you, Arrow of course, and also the great blog by JayCutler'sCombover, who just got accepted to Columbia and Berkeley due to his success. His blog can be found at:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77498

As thesealocust conveyed, it is those who earlier benefited from TLS and are now kindly conveying the lessons they learned to the community that are the greatest asset of TLS. Thanks again Wahoo, Arrow and JayCutler'sCombover.

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RudeDudewithAttitude
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby RudeDudewithAttitude » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:26 am

Nice! Thanks!

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DrmgSprs
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby DrmgSprs » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:49 am

Great advice.

Is there anything you saw other 1Ls doing that you don't think worked well or other things to avoid?

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thesealocust
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby thesealocust » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:28 am

edit: n/m
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Aug 02, 2009 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:58 am

iceberger wrote:
YCrevolution wrote:
extragnarls wrote:
Kiana wrote:Thank you for posting this!


+1. Much appreciated.

Ditto.



+1 Bookmarked, Bookmarked, Bookmarked


Yep.

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Wahoo1L
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Wahoo1L » Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:24 am

Ken wrote:Yahoo Wahoo!! This is indeed a great post. Wahoo, with your permission I am going to aggregate some of the excellent advice on succeeding in law school (with a particular focus on the all important first year) and combine this into an article giving credit to the TLS authors who are paying it forward and making TLS a better place.

The article will have sections written by you, Arrow of course, and also the great blog by JayCutler'sCombover, who just got accepted to Columbia and Berkeley due to his success. His blog can be found at:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77498

As thesealocust conveyed, it is those who earlier benefited from TLS and are now kindly conveying the lessons they learned to the community that are the greatest asset of TLS. Thanks again Wahoo, Arrow and JayCutler'sCombover.


Sounds great to me.

DrmgSprs wrote:Great advice.

Is there anything you saw other 1Ls doing that you don't think worked well or other things to avoid?


There are few things that other students did that I would caution against;

1. Meticulous Briefing. Briefing is a waste of time in my opinion, and if you really want to put in extra work then there are tons of more valuable ways to do so such as reading supplements, rereading Getting to Maybe, or getting an early jump on outlining.

2. Using other people's outlines. While there will no doubt be tons of outlines from top students floating around, using these entirely defeats the purpose of outlining. The benefits of outlining isn't the finished product but rather the work that goes in to making the outline.

3. Delaying the Job Search. This was a problem that I had. During your first year, you'll finish exams in mid-December and then have to start looking for a job. I put this off until after I had my grades because I wanted a break during the holiday season which made finding a job more difficult. If you want to try and get a firm job or work for a judge, try to get your materials out as soon as possible. For firms, the NALP rule is December 1 but I'm not quite sure what it is for judges.

4. Some Study Groups. It really depends on the group, but these can be a huge waste of time from what I've seen. If you find a small group that you want to work with and is on task then I can see how it'd be helpful, but I never felt the need to participate in one.

That's about all I can think off the top of my head. If I come up with more I'll edit the post.

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DrmgSprs
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby DrmgSprs » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:03 pm

Thanks for the update/ additional advice.

seeker63
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby seeker63 » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:02 pm

Wahoo1L wrote:
1. Meticulous Briefing. Briefing is a waste of time in my opinion, and if you really want to put in extra work then there are tons of more valuable ways to do so such as reading supplements, rereading Getting to Maybe, or getting an early jump on outlining.

2. Using other people's outlines. While there will no doubt be tons of outlines from top students floating around, using these entirely defeats the purpose of outlining. The benefits of outlining isn't the finished product but rather the work that goes in to making the outline.

...

4. Some Study Groups. It really depends on the group, but these can be a huge waste of time from what I've seen. If you find a small group that you want to work with and is on task then I can see how it'd be helpful, but I never felt the need to participate in one.


I'll reiterate these for emphasis.

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solotee
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby solotee » Sun Jul 12, 2009 3:41 pm

A TLS gold nugget. Good stuff!

truevines
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby truevines » Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:11 pm

Thanks for sharing your experience.

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Mr. Costello
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Re: Law School Advice (T10)

Postby Mr. Costello » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:50 am

tag.




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