Darrow Invite Forum

[aussie3b]

Congrats to the new group...is anyone leaning toward a decision one way or another?

I'm just encouraging people to keep thinking out loud. For my part, I'm still waiting on HYS so I've got no new insight to add.

[Reinhardt]

Still waiting on HYS here as well. The Darrow is far and away my top choice at the moment, but I haven't heard back from a few schools, and I'd like to wait for financial aid offers. I don't think I'd take CCN with low grant aid, and I didn't get the Hamilton, so they're not looking too hot. If Berkeley decided both to admit me and approve my scholarship-matching application, then that'd definitely throw a wrench in the works. Then there's the admitted student days....but I don't know how much stock to put into those.

While you're deciding, have a look at US News reputation scores.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=58629

[Tangerine Gleam]

boo...seems like Darrow is very LSAT based

Honestly, I don't think the LSAT has much (if anything) to do with it. If you're in at Michigan, I think that's all that matters as far as GPA/LSAT qualifications. I think the Darrow is more soft-factor-based.

[tamlyric]

boo...seems like Darrow is very LSAT based

Honestly, I don't think the LSAT has much (if anything) to do with it. If you're in at Michigan, I think that's all that matters as far as GPA/LSAT qualifications. I think the Darrow is more soft-factor-based.

+1

This might overstate the case a little bit, but I think TG has it right. The fact that it's possible for a high LSAT "splitter" to get the Darrow doesn't mean the Darrow is based on the LSAT.

[tamlyric]

Congrats to the new group...is anyone leaning toward a decision one way or another?

I'm just encouraging people to keep thinking out loud. For my part, I'm still waiting on HYS so I've got no new insight to add.

Thanks aussie!

I think it's great to have this conversation. For whatever it's worth, I am leaning heavily toward Mich at this point. I also haven't heard from H or Y (didn't apply to S). Regardless, I am not sure acceptances at either H or Y would sway me at this point.

Hear's to continuing the discussion!

[Tangerine Gleam]

Thanks, everybody! Really means a lot.

I'm glad we all have three months to decide, because I realllllllllly need to give this all some careful thought. To be honest, as incredible as I know Michigan to be, it was a few spots down on my list because I was admitted to a few other schools that seemed, for personal reasons, preferable -- Boalt and UVA most notably. However, there is no significant difference in the quality of education between those schools, and if anything, the rankings below speak to the big respect Michigan has in the legal field:

While you're deciding, have a look at US News reputation scores.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=58629

Thanks for posting that, msoftceo...interesting!

Anyhow, I believe I want to work in California, and while Michigan can't compare to the clout Boalt has in NorCal, it apparently does really will in Cali placement. Plus, in general, the school just seems amazing across the board. (As for Michigan, I personally do not like cold weather...but do I dislike it to the tune of $150k?).

At the end of the day, when weighing ANYTHING against the Darrow, the same question comes up -- "OK, but would that be worth $150,000"? I can't think of many things that would be.

[bottomshelf]

At the end of the day, when weighing ANYTHING against the Darrow, the same question comes up -- "OK, but would that be worth $150,000"? I can't think of many things that would be.

I'm tempted by that thought also, but fin. aid offers from other schools won't roll in until mid-March; trying NOT to think that way for a month and a half is stressing me out, haha.

but still, "is that worth the $90,000 difference?" (or whatever dollar amount it'll be) is still a heavy question...

[Reinhardt]

At the end of the day, when weighing ANYTHING against the Darrow, the same question comes up -- "OK, but would that be worth $150,000"? I can't think of many things that would be.

I'm tempted by that thought also, but fin. aid offers from other schools won't roll in until mid-March; trying NOT to think that way for a month and a half is stressing me out, haha.

but still, "is that worth the $90,000 difference?" (or whatever dollar amount it'll be) is still a heavy question...

This is what it comes down to. And that $90,000 isn't just $90,000. I'd like to think many of us are entering law school not JUST for the money. I think a full-ride is qualitatively different from a half or 2/3rds scholarship. The full ride gives you freedom. If you think about the full range of possibilities that may await you three years down the line, this freedom has incredible value. Maybe some of us will be hit by a car or get cancer (or both, like Ken) and become unable to work for a living. Maybe we'll decide we'd really like to get in on the ground floor in a friend's start-up. Maybe (insert situation where having high 5 figure to low 6 figure debt would be inconvenient to horrifying).

[Tangerine Gleam]

Yes, good point. I definitely plan on applying for need-based aid, but as my one living parent has some assets in savings, I don't know how this will play out. They won't be contributing to my education at all, but apparently this doesn't matter as I am still under 30. So, assuming I get no aid, I'll be looking at $45-50k debt from Michigan vs. $190-200k from another T10 (although hopefully I'm wrong on that).

By the way, for current Darrows, does that $45-50k debt figure seem reasonable? The site quotes $17500 in yearly living expenses...so that's what I'm estimating, when factoring in the $7500 first-year stipend. The Darrow and Hamilton scholarships are amazing...but it's still hardly a "free degree!"

[bottomshelf]

Rents in Ann Arbor can be $600/month or lower, from what I've been looking at. Even if you live alone, close to campus, it's not that much money. It'll definitely be less than $12,000 / year for rent, and you probably won't crack $6,000 / year on other expenses, so even saying $54,000 debt (assuming you make NOTHING over three years) minus the stipend - $46,500 sound good for post-Darrow debt?

I guess unexpected medical expenses could shoot that up; I feel like I'm missing something with my numbers though.

EDIT: Books probably add a few thousand...

DOUBLE EDIT: my maths is horrible.

[tamlyric]

Yes, good point. I definitely plan on applying for need-based aid, but as my one living parent has some assets in savings, I don't know how this will play out. They won't be contributing to my education at all, but apparently this doesn't matter as I am still under 30. So, assuming I get no aid, I'll be looking at $45-50k debt from Michigan vs. $190-200k from another T10 (although hopefully I'm wrong on that).

By the way, for current Darrows, does that $45-50k debt figure seem reasonable? The site quotes $17500 in yearly living expenses...so that's what I'm estimating, when factoring in the $7500 first-year stipend. The Darrow and Hamilton scholarships are amazing...but it's still hardly a "free degree!"

I would bet you can get by on a lot less than $17,500, but that is pure conjecture at this point. Another thing to keep in mind, though, is that there's a pretty good chance you'll make decent money during 2L summer from either (i) a law firm internship or (ii) a nice public interest scholarship.

I hope this is not wishful thinking on my part.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Another question (which has already been addressed by at least one Darrow poster, but I'd love more anecdotes!) -- what effect, if any, does having the Darrow Scholarship on your resume have in affecting your job search? Beyond the obvious financial benefits, does that "title" have any effect on your relationships with professors and/or job prospects?

[chitown825]

This has got to be some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. It is an award for those who UM believes will go on to have an extraordinary career. When a prospective employer sees Darrow, they subconsciously make it happen for you.

[tamlyric]

This has got to be some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. It is an award for those who UM believes will go on to have an extraordinary career. When a prospective employer sees Darrow, they subconsciously make it happen for you.

Ha! Fine by me. (crosses fingers and knocks on wood.)

[Tangerine Gleam]

This has got to be some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. It is an award for those who UM believes will go on to have an extraordinary career. When a prospective employer sees Darrow, they subconsciously make it happen for you.

I also wonder how likely Darrows are to excel in law school. Would be interesting (if possible) to see how they've fared, rankings and grade-wise, over the years.

[betsyanna]

I believe a Darrow won one of the top GPA awards in last year's graduating class. best 2L GPA, maybe?

I think that anybody who receives a Darrow will do well if they put in the time.

[Aeon]

In other words, a Darrow is neither necessary, nor sufficient, to do well.

Congratulations to all the Darrow recipients, by the way, that's really impressive!

[Cassandrus]

Quick question: Was anybody else invited to apply for a Darrow with a deadline of Jan 18? And if so, have you heard back yet? They said they would get back to us within 2 weeks, which if I am not mistaken is today.

[Tangerine Gleam]

Quick question: Was anybody else invited to apply for a Darrow with a deadline of Jan 18? And if so, have you heard back yet? They said they would get back to us within 2 weeks, which if I am not mistaken is today.

Did you hear anything yet? Fingers crossed for you.

Let's keep this discussion current!

[tamlyric]

Quick question: Was anybody else invited to apply for a Darrow with a deadline of Jan 18? And if so, have you heard back yet? They said they would get back to us within 2 weeks, which if I am not mistaken is today.

Did you hear anything yet? Fingers crossed for you.

Let's keep this discussion current!

+1

[tamlyric]

Does anyone know what, if any conditions, are put on keeping a Darrow?

[booby87]

.

[Tangerine Gleam]

That really takes the pressure off. Nice.

[tamlyric]

.

[Cassandrus]

Quick question: Was anybody else invited to apply for a Darrow with a deadline of Jan 18? And if so, have you heard back yet? They said they would get back to us within 2 weeks, which if I am not mistaken is today.

Did you hear anything yet? Fingers crossed for you.

Let's keep this discussion current!

Sooooo....I actually ended up getting the full darrow a week and a half ago, only gmail decided to file it in the spam folder. I think they heard my hand smacking my forehead in the next apartment over.