Is Law worthwile in 2022? Forum

[OzO]

Hello everyone, recently I have found myself especially interested in law. So far, I'm on the predental track and I currently have a weak gpa of ~3.3. That being said, I was dead set on dentistry till I released that I would have to take 300k+ in loans in order to become a dentist. This freaked me out a bit to say the least, so I decided on looking into law. Personally, I found myself attracted to be big law and becoming an attorney. But, whenever I read posts on reddit and the other areas of the internet. There seems to be stale market for law to say the least and many lawyers find themselves unemployed or making under 50K despite their prestigious degree from T14 institutions. That being said, frankly, is law really that saturated that you have to be the best of the T6 to make 75k+ out of law school.

Thanks,
OzO

[objctnyrhnr]

Hello everyone, recently I have found myself especially interested in law. So far, I'm on the predental track and I currently have a weak gpa of ~3.3. That being said, I was dead set on dentistry till I released that I would have to take 300k+ in loans in order to become a dentist. This freaked me out a bit to say the least, so I decided on looking into law. Personally, I found myself attracted to be big law and becoming an attorney. But, whenever I read posts on reddit and the other areas of the internet. There seems to be stale market for law to say the least and many lawyers find themselves unemployed or making under 50K despite their prestigious degree from T14 institutions. That being said, frankly, is law really that saturated that you have to be the best of the T6 to make 75k+ out of law school.

Thanks,
OzO

To all but guarantee that outcome should you want it? Yeah probably.

Maybe down to t10 or something and maybe more like 100k+.

But yeah.

[The Lsat Airbender]

RoI is mediocre for law school if you have other decent career options and pay full freight. Biglaw qualitatively sucks on top of that.

Law school as a pure career/financial decision is worth it if:

1) You attend a T13,

2) You have the temperament for biglaw, and one of:

3a) You get a substantial discount (i.e. merit scholarship); or

3b) Your other options are truly mediocre and you'd never make six figures on your current trajectory

I think the above is a tad bearish, you probably can't "guarantee" biglaw unless you attend Yale but it's reasonable to expect the $200k+ biglaw salary from any T13 if you have a decent head on your shoulders with exams and interviews. Picture gets cloudier if we have another 2009-style recession, but that'd affect most career choices so I think my flowchart still holds.

We're also setting aside that many/most people attend law school because they subjectively want to be lawyers, which makes a much wider range of law schools viable.

[ALCA1920]

I'm at a tier-1 school right now practically debt-free, and there are days when I question my decision to attend. You really won't know whether you enjoy the work until after 1L and your first summer of interning. Legal research and writing are good proxies to test whether you like the work. I'd recommend shadowing a lawyer or working in a law office briefly to see if you'd enjoy it. Read the motions and memoranda, and imagine yourself reading and writing those. If you're really fascinated by law and itching to become a lawyer still, go to the best school that accepts you with the best scholarship offer (this can be either T14 or a strong regional school, i.e State University).

When you ask whether it's "worthwhile" to attend, that depends on a lot of factors. Financially, law can cost much less than other professional degrees, but also give much less in income. Median salaries for regional school graduates are between 50k-70k, and the Bureau of Labor Statistics says that median income for all lawyers is around $120k–half make more, the other half make less. Biglaw starts attorneys at over $200k, but not everyone gets these positions. Look at Law School Transparency reports to get a picture of how each school performs in the job market. But keep in mind that sticker price at many schools exceeds $200k, which is too much for the salary you will be making. I think if you want a guaranteed 6-figure job in any market regardless of how the economy is doing, look into other careers (medicine being #1 for this reason). A legal career is no magic bullet for financial success.

[crazywafflez]

This really depends on your school and grades.
I'm a T1 grad with good grades. I make below 6 figures, but I live in a low cost of living area. However, my peers who went to big markets still make below market pay. The vast majority of my class did get jobs, however, many make between 50-80k and either work for the state or for a smaller firm.
I largely co-sign Lsat Airbender's statements. A T1 on a fullride can be worth it if it is the flagship U in the state you want to practice in though. But you likely won't get biglaw from anything that isn't a T13.
Also, with a 3.3 gpa, you'll really need to slay the LSAT to have a good shot at getting into a T13. Best of luck.

[OzO]

This really depends on your school and grades.
I'm a T1 grad with good grades. I make below 6 figures, but I live in a low cost of living area. However, my peers who went to big markets still make below market pay. The vast majority of my class did get jobs, however, many make between 50-80k and either work for the state or for a smaller firm.
I largely co-sign Lsat Airbender's statements. A T1 on a fullride can be worth it if it is the flagship U in the state you want to practice in though. But you likely won't get biglaw from anything that isn't a T13.
Also, with a 3.3 gpa, you'll really need to slay the LSAT to have a good shot at getting into a T13. Best of luck.

I am only one semester into college right now. I really think I can get my gpa up to a 3.5+ before I start applying my senior year. That being said, I feel like my gpa will probably drag me to the bottom half of the T20 and I’m scared of taking the LSAT as well because I only got a 1260 on my SAT with prep time…

[flyinglow]

You have the temperament for biglaw,

Where can I go to improve my understanding about what this entails?

[nixy]

If you’re one semester into college it’s too early to be making these decisions.

Also, what actually draws you to law and to dentistry other than the paycheck? Those fields are really different. Law school could cost $300k+ as well (though admittedly it doesn’t have to).

[The Lsat Airbender]

You have the temperament for biglaw,

Where can I go to improve my understanding about what this entails?

Working after college in biglaw (as a paralegal), banking, consulting, big4 accounting, etc. would be the best way, although it's hardly necessary. Some people are just type-A enough to intuitively know they could handle the demands of a career like that.

Lite version of the above would be informational interviews with as many big-firm attorneys as you can track down.

[nealric]

Hello everyone, recently I have found myself especially interested in law. So far, I'm on the predental track and I currently have a weak gpa of ~3.3. That being said, I was dead set on dentistry till I released that I would have to take 300k+ in loans in order to become a dentist. This freaked me out a bit to say the least, so I decided on looking into law. Personally, I found myself attracted to be big law and becoming an attorney. But, whenever I read posts on reddit and the other areas of the internet. There seems to be stale market for law to say the least and many lawyers find themselves unemployed or making under 50K despite their prestigious degree from T14 institutions. That being said, frankly, is law really that saturated that you have to be the best of the T6 to make 75k+ out of law school.

Thanks,
OzO

Are there folks unemployed or making $50k (not by choice due to a public interest job) with a T14 degree? Yes, they exist. Are they common? Absolutely not. It was perhaps more common circa 2009-10 (height of the great recession) when biglaw hiring halved itself from normal times.

In the current hiring market, the vast majority of T14 students (and just about all T6 students) will have the option to do biglaw if they want to. Biglaw starts over $200k in major markets these days. But it's a tough grind of a job that most use as a stepping stone for something else (government, small firm, in-house) after a few years.

If you are thinking about law, however, you'd really want to bring up that GPA. A 3.3 will make T14 admission tough even with a stellar LSAT. In addition, you can end up with $300k in loans with law too, though you can often mitigate it somewhat by going to a school that's a tier lower than you otherwise might be admitted to and getting "merit" scholarships.

I have family in dentistry. One piece of advice I would give is to do a specialty (perio/ortho/endo) if at all possible. The specialists, especially ones with a cosmetic angle like perio/ortho, can make a lot more money for a lot less work than general dentists doing regular checkups and fillings all day.

[Wild Card]

It was worth it when law school cost $100,000 per year, and the first year salary was $125,000, or whatever.

Now law school costs $350,000, and the starting is only $205,000. Nothing to sneeze at, but think about that 7% interest.

[BigLawBigTX175]

I have been practicing big law for about a year now, and I think I regret my decision. I went to a T14 on a scholarship (so basically free) and had been wanting to be a lawyer essentially since high school...I did everything "right." I should have known something was up when I loathed law school because I thought practicing would be better. It's not. Save yourself 3 years and debt (for many of you) and do something else. If you are still in undergrad, get a STEM degree or an accounting/finance degree or something like that and don't look back.

[The Lsat Airbender]

It was worth it when law school cost $100,000 per year, and the first year salary was $125,000, or whatever.

Now law school costs $350,000, and the starting is only $205,000. Nothing to sneeze at, but think about that 7% interest.

This is a good litmus test. Debt-to-income ratios above 1 are concerning. But a decent scholarship can pull that $350k number down to about $200k which, if you can and will do biglaw, is justifiable.

[nealric]

I have been practicing big law for about a year now, and I think I regret my decision. I went to a T14 on a scholarship (so basically free) and had been wanting to be a lawyer essentially since high school...I did everything "right." I should have known something was up when I loathed law school because I thought practicing would be better. It's not. Save yourself 3 years and debt (for many of you) and do something else. If you are still in undergrad, get a STEM degree or an accounting/finance degree or something like that and don't look back.

It comes down to personal aptitudes and proclivities. As a tax lawyer, I work with accountants quite a bit. I would never want to trade jobs with them.

[Wild Card]

It was worth it when law school cost $100,000 per year, and the first year salary was $125,000, or whatever.

Now law school costs $350,000, and the starting is only $205,000. Nothing to sneeze at, but think about that 7% interest.

This is a good litmus test. Debt-to-income ratios above 1 are concerning. But a decent scholarship can pull that $350k number down to about $200k which, if you can and will do biglaw, is justifiable.

I intended to write "$100,000 all in" instead of $100,000 per year. It's $100,000 per year now, which ends up as $350,000 by the time you graduate.

It's hard to get a decent scholarship, and even such a scholarship doesn't put much of a dent on the sticker cost. For example, I got $60K total from my law school, which apparently is generous, and I still graduated $200,000+ in debt. I managed to cut it down to $160,000 after a year in biglaw, but I still owe $160,000.