Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

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KennyP
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Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby KennyP » Thu Jan 02, 2014 8:25 pm

Thought it would be interesting to compare the changes in applicant volume at the top 50 schools from the 2011-2012 cycle (class of 2015) to the 2012-2013 cycle (class of 2016). Below, is a list of the percentage changes in applicants for each school (c/o 2015 vs. c/o 2016 applicants).

Click on each school to view their 2013 Standard 509 Information Report

2012 Standard 509 Reports can be found here: ABA-LSAC Official Guide

CHANGE IN APPLICANT VOLUME (C/O 2015 VS C/O 2016 APPS)

1) Yale: -10.40%
2) Stanford: -4.31%
2) Harvard: 1.80%
4) U Chicago: (LinkRemoved) -4.19%
4) Columbia: -12.06%
6) NYU: -10.36%
7) U Pennsylvania: -9.66%
7) U Virginia: -0.23%
9) UC Berkeley: -16.25%
9) U Michigan: -3.65%
11) Duke: 1.03%
12) Northwestern: -9.98%
13) Cornell: 1.04%
14) Georgetown: -6.05%
15) Vanderbilt: -12.27%
15) U Texas: -2.97%
17) UCLA: -9.07%
18) USC: -13.57%
19) Washington U: 6.57%
19) U Minnesota: -8.65%
21) U Alabama: 10.13%
21) George Washington: -9.46%
23) Notre Dame: -8.35%
23) Emory: -1.70%
25) Indiana U: (LinkRemoved) -21.66%
26) U Iowa: -45.86%
26) Washington & Lee: -29.31%
28) University of Washington: -10.35%
29) Arizona State University: -14.48%
29) Boston University: -22.49%
31) U North Carolina: -37.10%
31) Boston College: -11.14%
33) U Georgia: (LinkRemoved) -13.25%
33) U Wisconsin: -30.38%
33) William & Mary: 5.12%
36) Wake Forest: -23.78%
36) Ohio State U: -18.40%
38) U Arizona: -9.40%
38) UC ​Davis: -30.84%
38) Fordham: -22.24%
41) U Utah: (LinkRemoved) -18.45%
41) George Mason: -45.45%
41) U Maryland: -21.42%
44) BYU: -18.99%
44) U Colorado: -17.45%
46) U Florida: -36.22%
47) U Illinois: -21.42%
48) Florida State U: -19.09%
48) U Houston: -18.50%

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berndie90
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby berndie90 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:09 am

That is one MASSIVE drop for Berkeley. Very interesting...

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Blumpbeef » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:25 am

berndie90 wrote:That is one MASSIVE drop for Berkeley. Very interesting...


Maybe people figured they should bother since Berkeley doesn't accept anyone anyway.

ETA: Davis took a massive hit. Their drop in USNWR seems to have been fucking devastating :shock:

kobe1020
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby kobe1020 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:20 am

Davids, Iowa down 40+% ?? WTF...i guess no one wants to go there anyways..

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IgosduIkana
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby IgosduIkana » Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:29 am

Pretty interesting, thanks. Yikes Iowa, now I have a context in which to rationalize your tuition drop.

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Amity
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Amity » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:11 am

How is this dip in applications affecting enrollment? Are most schools filling seats with students that have mediocre scores or are the seats going empty? I suppose schools have to decide whether to take the money even if it adversely affects their ranking.

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bdogbb
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby bdogbb » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:16 am

Holy fuck Boston University, that's a huge drop. This has me wondering if I should throw an app their way, got a meagre 165/3.23.

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isuperserial
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby isuperserial » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:17 am

JFC Iowa, Davis, BU... that's devastating...

Image

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby ScottRiqui » Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:43 am

Amity wrote:How is this dip in applications affecting enrollment? Are most schools filling seats with students that have mediocre scores or are the seats going empty? I suppose schools have to decide whether to take the money even if it adversely affects their ranking.


The T50 schools had a 2.5% overall drop in enrollment, so it looks like the general trend is that they (pretty much) maintained class size while letting their medians slide. This strategy might not adversely affect most school's rankings, either, since almost all of the schools had median drops. It's not as big of a deal to lose a point in your LSAT median if all of your peers did, too.

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PDaddy
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby PDaddy » Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:26 am

People are getting the message. But at some point this trend could reverse again if multiple students start to think, "Wow...this is my shot!"

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Cicero76
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Cicero76 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:08 am

Erribody stops applying to YS and the T6 but Harvard hold the line? Come on now.

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:18 am

Blumpbeef wrote:
berndie90 wrote:That is one MASSIVE drop for Berkeley. Very interesting...


Maybe people figured they should bother since Berkeley doesn't accept anyone anyway.

ETA: Davis took a massive hit. Their drop in USNWR seems to have been fucking devastating :shock:


You jest, but I was thinking the same thing (for Yale). I wonder if applicants knowledge of the Law Schools is either increasing or if there is just a large reduction in the fair weather applicants (thus leaving more applicants serious enough to do research).

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Amity
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Amity » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:21 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
Amity wrote:How is this dip in applications affecting enrollment? Are most schools filling seats with students that have mediocre scores or are the seats going empty? I suppose schools have to decide whether to take the money even if it adversely affects their ranking.


The T50 schools had a 2.5% overall drop in enrollment, so it looks like the general trend is that they (pretty much) maintained class size while letting their medians slide. This strategy might not adversely affect most school's rankings, either, since almost all of the schools had median drops. It's not as big of a deal to lose a point in your LSAT median if all of your peers did, too.

Agreed. There is such an enormous gap between legal jobs (est.) 22,000 and 38,000 law grads that a 10% drop would not make much of a dent. Doubtful if any law school will be closing its doors nor will we ever witness a headline proclaiming a shortage of lawyers.

UnderrateOverachieve
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby UnderrateOverachieve » Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:28 am

Cicero76 wrote:Erribody stops applying to YS and the T6 but Harvard hold the line? Come on now.


Probably from the "you wont get into Yale or Stanford but maybe Harvard" advice.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby shifty_eyed » Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:41 pm

KennyP wrote:41) George Mason: -45.45%

:shock:

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IgosduIkana
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby IgosduIkana » Sat Jan 04, 2014 2:28 pm

UnderrateOverachieve wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:Erribody stops applying to YS and the T6 but Harvard hold the line? Come on now.


Probably from the "you wont get into Yale or Stanford but maybe Harvard" advice.


Perhaps also because Harvard's lay prestige is higher than YS and bozos are throwing hail marys like craaaazy because of the low applicant pool and pipe dreams.

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drawstring
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby drawstring » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:13 pm

IgosduIkana wrote:
UnderrateOverachieve wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:Erribody stops applying to YS and the T6 but Harvard hold the line? Come on now.


Probably from the "you wont get into Yale or Stanford but maybe Harvard" advice.


Perhaps also because Harvard's lay prestige is higher than YS and bozos are throwing hail marys like craaaazy because of the low applicant pool and pipe dreams.


That's my hunch.

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BLUERUFiO
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby BLUERUFiO » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:33 pm

Interesting to see Wake Forrest down, even though they hand out so much money.

NYstate
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby NYstate » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:40 pm

Schools game this system by giving out fee waivers to increase applications -which also improves their yield. Doesn't Harvard also send out emails to people encouraging them to apply? Maybe Columbia does this too. I don't remember its been too long.

Alabama gave out free itunes cards to applicants the past couple of years, so people applied just to get a free card.

Didn't Iowa have some bad press a year or two ago? Again, I vaguely remember.

Basically, if there is a statistic that can be gamed by law school admission officers, it will be.

SparkyZZZ
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby SparkyZZZ » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:56 pm

Yeah, Bama plying applicants with iTunes gift cards is pretty transparent. Either other schools will start doing the same thing, or Bama's rep will take a hit. You can only game the system for so long before people see through it.

I just don't buy that Bama is really a top 25.

I went to the Iowa admitted students thing last spring, and I felt like I was on the deck of the Titanic. I don't want to use the word "free-fall," but...

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2014
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby 2014 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 6:03 pm

Have no idea why BC and BUs drops were so wildly different. I can't see any circumstance where one would apply to one of them but not the other and yet hundreds of people in theory decided to app to BC but not BU.

GULC should have dropped more, what a shame :(

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Blumpbeef » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:08 pm

2014 wrote:Have no idea why BC and BUs drops were so wildly different. I can't see any circumstance where one would apply to one of them but not the other and yet hundreds of people in theory decided to app to BC but not BU.

GULC should have dropped more, what a shame :(


During my cycle, BC gave me a fee waiver when I requested and BU didn't. It could all come down to that.

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Pneumonia
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby Pneumonia » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:38 am

2014 wrote: Have no idea why BC and BUs drops were so wildly different.

NYstate wrote: Schools game this system by giving out fee waivers to increase applications

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby MikeSpivey » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:38 pm

KennyP was gracious and gave us permission to blog this, fyi:

http://spiveyconsulting.com/blog/change ... s-for-t50/

Same data, no idea if it easier to book mark this thread or our page. I will have our intern look into the next 50. Thanks, Kenny!

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BentleyLittle
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Re: Change in Applicant Volume & 509 Reports for Top 50 Schools

Postby BentleyLittle » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:48 pm

SparkyZZZ wrote:Yeah, Bama plying applicants with iTunes gift cards is pretty transparent. Either other schools will start doing the same thing, or Bama's rep will take a hit. You can only game the system for so long before people see through it.

I just don't buy that Bama is really a top 25.

I went to the Iowa admitted students thing last spring, and I felt like I was on the deck of the Titanic. I don't want to use the word "free-fall," but...


Could you expand on the Iowa ASW comment?




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