Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
taylorswiftfan
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby taylorswiftfan » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:21 pm

Has anyone used a great law school admissions consultant that they can recommend to me? Or has used one that they can tell me to not pay my money towards? Would appreciate the recommendations...

Thanks

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby Clearly » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:22 pm

The ONLY right answer is Spivey Consulting. Mike and Karen are both active on this board, and have had great results.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13912
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby rinkrat19 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:22 pm

top-law-schools.com

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby stillwater » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:30 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:top-law-schools.com


this. you dont need a consultant. ridiculous waste of money.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4165
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby Clearly » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:40 pm

I'm gonna disagree here, not mandatory of course, but for all the good information on TLS, you have got to see how much garbage info there is here too. I mean getting in is one thing, but I do think for scholly negotiation, it could come in handy...

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby dowu » Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:53 pm

Clearly wrote:I'm gonna disagree here, not mandatory of course, but for all the good information on TLS, you have got to see how much garbage info there is here too. I mean getting in is one thing, but I do think for scholly negotiation, it could come in handy...

I mean, all anyone has to base scholarships off of is numbers info.

There is nothing a consultant will tell u that u couldn't learn on here for free

taylorswiftfan
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:50 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby taylorswiftfan » Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:07 pm

dowu wrote:
Clearly wrote:I'm gonna disagree here, not mandatory of course, but for all the good information on TLS, you have got to see how much garbage info there is here too. I mean getting in is one thing, but I do think for scholly negotiation, it could come in handy...

I mean, all anyone has to base scholarships off of is numbers info.

There is nothing a consultant will tell u that u couldn't learn on here for free


Off topic but....Dowu, great avatar. I am a "taylor swift fan", but disclosure is an awesome musical group. Been listening to some of their tracks lately.

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:00 pm

stillwater wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:top-law-schools.com


this. you dont need a consultant. ridiculous waste of money.


Probably true for most, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't use one if you can.

I did not use a consulting service, but I have known several people that did. This has been my experience: most people can absolutely put together a great app on their own based on personal research and browsing this site, BUT a respectable consultant will absolutely add significant value to any application.

Yes it is true that there is a tremendous amount of knowledge here, but none of us are actually admissions officers and none of us have read thousands of apps (well, except Spivey KB and Dean Perez).

Also, consultants can be of particular use to super splitters. People on this site are quick to admit that "super splitter cycles are unpredictable;" consultants can help with that. Lastly, most consultants will tell you that if you are above both medians then not to worry with their services, but there are even exceptions to the predictive value of numbers, see Lavitz.

User avatar
banjo
Posts: 1345
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:00 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby banjo » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:14 pm

I didn't use one, but I think you should consider it if you're non-traditional, have C+F concerns, significant gaps in your education, or other atypical issues.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby stillwater » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:17 pm

you dont need a consultant. period.

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby dowu » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:17 pm

taylorswiftfan wrote:
dowu wrote:
Clearly wrote:I'm gonna disagree here, not mandatory of course, but for all the good information on TLS, you have got to see how much garbage info there is here too. I mean getting in is one thing, but I do think for scholly negotiation, it could come in handy...

I mean, all anyone has to base scholarships off of is numbers info.

There is nothing a consultant will tell u that u couldn't learn on here for free


Off topic but....Dowu, great avatar. I am a "taylor swift fan", but disclosure is an awesome musical group. Been listening to some of their tracks lately.

R u hot

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:48 pm

As other's have pointed out, if you have a standard app (no C&F issues, not a splitter, no other "addendum" type issues, a typical PS, etc) then you probably don't need one. On the other hand, if you do have some of those types of issues, or are very close to a reach school and need that tiny little push to get over the edge, then they can be worth it. I have seen situations in which people have outperformed their numbers by using one, and I have seen situations where it didn't make a difference. I have yet to see a situation where using one hurt someone's chances. So if you have the means to hire one, it probably won't hurt, and in certain situations could help quite a bit. The question of whether it is "worth it" can only be made by you in consideration of your relative wealth.

If you do use one, your best bet will be http://spiveyconsulting.com. I know people who have used Mike and Karen and they were completely satisfied. They told me they can't imagine doing it without them, and that they got into schools they never would have without their help.

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby dowu » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:53 pm

WHAT are the so called consultants doing to make someone more qualified or able to hit their reach schools? Doesn't make sense.

User avatar
bombaysippin
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby bombaysippin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:58 pm

dowu wrote:WHAT are the so called consultants doing to make someone more qualified or able to hit their reach schools? Doesn't make sense.


If we all knew this then they wouldn't have jobs lol.

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:11 pm

dowu wrote:WHAT are the so called consultants doing to make someone more qualified or able to hit their reach schools? Doesn't make sense.


From what I have gathered talking to those who have used them with success, it is a bunch of small things that add up to make it worthwhile.

    - Working with the person to get a resume in perfect shape, framing experiences in the best possible light to "sell" yourself to admissions. Many people do not know how to craft a really good resume, and they can help with this.

    - Editing C&F statements to only disclose what is absolutely necessary and leaving out the fluff. I know people can post their statements on TLS and gather advice, but with something this delicate it can help to have a former dean edit out what is unnecessary, as TLS tends to advise over-disclosure that probably isn't truly necessary. For someone with C&F issues, this can help keep more schools in play than might have been without the help.

    - Helping develop the PS into something more than just "adequate," from the perspective of someone who has read thousands of them. Sure, you can get help from TLS, but few on TLS have actually been in the position of reading and ranking as many personal statements as someone like Karen or Mike. They can help you craft something that will stand out.

    - Proof reading the entire application to make sure everything is perfect. Those little typos you notice after you send them out, the consultant will catch those. They can help with those fun little overlooked sections on apps such as UVA's "Interests" section or Cornell's "Why Cornell" section.

    - Unlike TLS, a consultant can review your application as one cohesive unit, and make sure it fits together, tells a story, is cohesive, there are no unintended contradictions, etc.

    - A consultant can do mock interviews with you over Skype, to prepare for the increasing number of schools conducting interviews. What could be a better way to prepare for a JS1 than to do a mock interview with a former Admissions Director at HLS?

    - All of those "Why X?" essays? An admissions consultant who has read numerous of these can help you write it in a way that doesn't sound like you simply spent 5 minutes on the school website and copied down a laundry list of items from the view book.

Now again I will reiterate that for most people on this site, it probably isn't necessary. I mean if you're above both 75ths of your dream school, then you don't need to worry about the "little things" that a consultant will iron out. But if you're a splitter, or have some other negative to your app, then having someone who can make your app spotless, and who can work with you to make each piece as good as possible, can be the thing that tips you over the edge.

Also, while they are worth it for the application part of your cycle, where they really can be worth it is in scholarship negotiation.

Finally, I want to emphasize that many of my perceived advantages to a consultant rest on the consultant having been a former dean or director of admissions. You need to hire someone who has read thousands of apps and knows what admissions offices are looking for. There are only a few people in the business who have been there. That is one reason I think this "industry" gets a bad reputation. Most consultants are not helpful, because they only regurgitate information you could find on TLS. But the few who have been there can read your app from that perspective, and can offer you help in making sure the application is as favorable as possible to someone reading it in the admissions office.

I didn't have the means to hire an admissions consultant, but if I did I would have in a heartbeat, and it would only have been Spivey Consulting.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby stillwater » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:25 pm

you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.

User avatar
lawschool22
Posts: 3875
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby lawschool22 » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:54 pm

stillwater wrote:you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.


I just think this sort of unequivocal view is too simplistic. Yes, the question of value is entirely subjective. But to say that there is no reason to hire one is just not true. They can add value, you just have to decide if that vale is worth the fee. I'm not preaching the importance. As I said, in simple (read: the majority of) cases they aren't needed. But there are people who can benefit. And for those who have the means, they can help.

Also, I'm not paid or a spokesperson. I'm just speaking as someone who knows individuals who were pleased.

User avatar
JustHawkin
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby JustHawkin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:15 pm

.
Last edited by JustHawkin on Mon Feb 03, 2014 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
bombaysippin
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby bombaysippin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:49 pm

JustHawkin wrote:What's the going rate for some pre-law consulting?


What do you mean pre-law consulting?

There's free pre-law advising most likely at your school. Whatever they say, do the complete opposite.

User avatar
JustHawkin
Posts: 1753
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:54 am

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby JustHawkin » Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:53 pm

Bajam wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:What's the going rate for some pre-law consulting?


What do you mean pre-law consulting?

There's free pre-law advising most likely at your school. Whatever they say, do the complete opposite.


Sorry,

law school admissions consulting, like the ones being discussed here. I just stated pre-law because I was reading one of these consulting firm's website and it was referenced to as Pre-Law consulting.

So what is the going rate for the law school admissions consulting as discussed here?

User avatar
Pneumonia
Posts: 1642
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:05 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby Pneumonia » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:26 pm

stillwater wrote:you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.


If your goal was to intentionally misunderstand what was said and then respond to the worst version of it than you did a good job. OP did not ask if he needed a consultant, and no one said that he or anyone else needed one either. Need is not the issue. Also, we've all conceded that TLS has great resources, and no one is preaching the importance of consultants, rather, we're just pointing out that they can be valuable in some situations.

So you're a rockstar and you nailed your apps without a consultant. Good job, I did the same. Even so, I have the humility to concede that they could have been even better, and the intellect to conclude that one great way of making them better would be to have someone like Karen look over them. I know several people who benefited tremendously from consultants, and even though I'm very confident in my essays, I still would have used a consultant service if I would have had the money to do it. The people I know that did so absolutely turned in apps that were orders of magnitude better than they would have been able to otherwise.

If your claim is that people don't need consultants, then great, keep repeating it; everyone here agrees with you. If your claim is that you and TLS have the same knowledge of what constitutes a good application that consultants do, then that is ridiculous. Again, this only matters on the margins, and since most people aren't on the margins then consultants are unnecessary for most. However, they can be extremely helpful for the types of applicants that lawschool22 mentioned, and to think otherwise is absurd.

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby dowu » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:31 pm

lawschool22 wrote:
dowu wrote:WHAT are the so called consultants doing to make someone more qualified or able to hit their reach schools? Doesn't make sense.


From what I have gathered talking to those who have used them with success, it is a bunch of small things that add up to make it worthwhile.

    - Working with the person to get a resume in perfect shape, framing experiences in the best possible light to "sell" yourself to admissions. Many people do not know how to craft a really good resume, and they can help with this.

    - Editing C&F statements to only disclose what is absolutely necessary and leaving out the fluff. I know people can post their statements on TLS and gather advice, but with something this delicate it can help to have a former dean edit out what is unnecessary, as TLS tends to advise over-disclosure that probably isn't truly necessary. For someone with C&F issues, this can help keep more schools in play than might have been without the help.

    - Helping develop the PS into something more than just "adequate," from the perspective of someone who has read thousands of them. Sure, you can get help from TLS, but few on TLS have actually been in the position of reading and ranking as many personal statements as someone like Karen or Mike. They can help you craft something that will stand out.

    - Proof reading the entire application to make sure everything is perfect. Those little typos you notice after you send them out, the consultant will catch those. They can help with those fun little overlooked sections on apps such as UVA's "Interests" section or Cornell's "Why Cornell" section.

    - Unlike TLS, a consultant can review your application as one cohesive unit, and make sure it fits together, tells a story, is cohesive, there are no unintended contradictions, etc.

    - A consultant can do mock interviews with you over Skype, to prepare for the increasing number of schools conducting interviews. What could be a better way to prepare for a JS1 than to do a mock interview with a former Admissions Director at HLS?

    - All of those "Why X?" essays? An admissions consultant who has read numerous of these can help you write it in a way that doesn't sound like you simply spent 5 minutes on the school website and copied down a laundry list of items from the view book.

Now again I will reiterate that for most people on this site, it probably isn't necessary. I mean if you're above both 75ths of your dream school, then you don't need to worry about the "little things" that a consultant will iron out. But if you're a splitter, or have some other negative to your app, then having someone who can make your app spotless, and who can work with you to make each piece as good as possible, can be the thing that tips you over the edge.

Also, while they are worth it for the application part of your cycle, where they really can be worth it is in scholarship negotiation.

Finally, I want to emphasize that many of my perceived advantages to a consultant rest on the consultant having been a former dean or director of admissions. You need to hire someone who has read thousands of apps and knows what admissions offices are looking for. There are only a few people in the business who have been there. That is one reason I think this "industry" gets a bad reputation. Most consultants are not helpful, because they only regurgitate information you could find on TLS. But the few who have been there can read your app from that perspective, and can offer you help in making sure the application is as favorable as possible to someone reading it in the admissions office.

I didn't have the means to hire an admissions consultant, but if I did I would have in a heartbeat, and it would only have been Spivey Consulting.

Sorry but no. All of this info has been talked about here and if it wasn't then there's a good chance it's common sense.

Have ur friend or family member view ur app or someone like a professor.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby stillwater » Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:54 pm

Pneumonia wrote:
stillwater wrote:you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.


If your goal was to intentionally misunderstand what was said and then respond to the worst version of it than you did a good job. OP did not ask if he needed a consultant, and no one said that he or anyone else needed one either. Need is not the issue. Also, we've all conceded that TLS has great resources, and no one is preaching the importance of consultants, rather, we're just pointing out that they can be valuable in some situations.

So you're a rockstar and you nailed your apps without a consultant. Good job, I did the same. Even so, I have the humility to concede that they could have been even better, and the intellect to conclude that one great way of making them better would be to have someone like Karen look over them. I know several people who benefited tremendously from consultants, and even though I'm very confident in my essays, I still would have used a consultant service if I would have had the money to do it. The people I know that did so absolutely turned in apps that were orders of magnitude better than they would have been able to otherwise.

If your claim is that people don't need consultants, then great, keep repeating it; everyone here agrees with you. If your claim is that you and TLS have the same knowledge of what constitutes a good application that consultants do, then that is ridiculous. Again, this only matters on the margins, and since most people aren't on the margins then consultants are unnecessary for most. However, they can be extremely helpful for the types of applicants that lawschool22 mentioned, and to think otherwise is absurd.


Still disagree with you.

sasquatchsam
Posts: 184
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:51 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby sasquatchsam » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:32 pm

stillwater wrote:you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.


I think one of the most important things a good admissions consultant can give is confidence that you have done everything the "right" way. The main reason I decided to use an admissions consultant was because I was struggling with my PS. I knew my scores were top notch but I couldn't seem to come up with a good PS (at least not by TLS standards). After trying multiple topics and revising them multiple times, I finally decided I would avoid the stress I was beginning to feel regarding the application process and scrape together the money to hire Mike Spivey. The anxiety I had been experiencing that I would somehow destroy my chances of admittance at schools like HYS with a sub-par application suddenly evaporated.

Although I am sure I did not "need" to hire an admissions consultant, if I had to do the process over I would do the exact same thing. The couple of thousand dollars is well worth it in my mind to ensure that your application is flawless. I think I perused TLS as much as pretty much any applicant out there and Mike helped me form an application that was drastically different than the one I would have submitted by only listening to TLS (different PS and DS topics and changes to my resume). If I am going to go over 100k into debt for law school, it is worth the few thousand to make sure I get into the best school possible. Others may have the confidence to do it on their own, but I was not willing to take even the .1% chance that I would underperform my numbers.

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Has anyone used a great law school Admissions Consultant

Postby dowu » Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:59 pm

sasquatchsam wrote:
stillwater wrote:you all sound like a bunch of paid spokespersons. given the dominant importance of numbers in the admissions game and the fact there is AMPLE (which is an understatement) material on admissions there is absolutely no reason to have a consultant. if your aim is to make the law school process even more financially exploitative, then, sure, preach the importance of consultants.


I think one of the most important things a good admissions consultant can give is confidence that you have done everything the "right" way. The main reason I decided to use an admissions consultant was because I was struggling with my PS. I knew my scores were top notch but I couldn't seem to come up with a good PS (at least not by TLS standards). After trying multiple topics and revising them multiple times, I finally decided I would avoid the stress I was beginning to feel regarding the application process and scrape together the money to hire Mike Spivey. The anxiety I had been experiencing that I would somehow destroy my chances of admittance at schools like HYS with a sub-par application suddenly evaporated.

Although I am sure I did not "need" to hire an admissions consultant, if I had to do the process over I would do the exact same thing. The couple of thousand dollars is well worth it in my mind to ensure that your application is flawless. I think I perused TLS as much as pretty much any applicant out there and Mike helped me form an application that was drastically different than the one I would have submitted by only listening to TLS (different PS and DS topics and changes to my resume). If I am going to go over 100k into debt for law school, it is worth the few thousand to make sure I get into the best school possible. Others may have the confidence to do it on their own, but I was not willing to take even the .1% chance that I would underperform my numbers.

No dude. Just no.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baby Gaga and 3 guests