Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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Dr. Dre
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Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:46 am

In her article, "Three Law School Admission Myths Debunked" published on ATL, she writes that there is no disadvantage in submitting apps in late Dec/ early Jan.
http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/thr ... -debunked/


But in her book, she says there is a disadvantage.
http://lawschoolexpert.com/books/law-sc ... sion-game/

Big Dog
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Big Dog » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:19 am

well she is just plain wrong on the first comment, as other data on TLS seem to indicate. For a few T14, applying early can be huge for the unhooked.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=210245&start=150

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Dr. Dre » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:50 pm

you've got to cop dat above-median-LSAT score first doe

SKA
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby SKA » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:24 am

You may have been looking at the 2009 version of her book, when apps were at all-time high. Here is her response to your post:

http://lawschoolexpert.com/application- ... +Expert%29

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Danger Zone
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Danger Zone » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:28 am

Wow, a response in less than 12 hours. I suppose Ms. Levine is constantly lurking TLS, looking for any mention of her name or book. Kudos to you, Ms. Levine, for providing a guiding light in our ego driven journeys. I personally have been slacking on the self-searches.
Last edited by Danger Zone on Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:29 am

SKA wrote:You may have been looking at the 2009 version of her book, when apps were at all-time high. Here is her response to your post:

http://lawschoolexpert.com/application- ... +Expert%29


Damn, she is on top of her shit lol

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Humbert Humbert » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:34 am

#3: The importance of applying early was definitely diminished in the Fall 2013 cycle, as evidenced by the fact that I had someone with a 3.4 and 163 who applied to a Top 20 law school in June and got in off the waiting list. That never would’ve happened in 2010!


One whole person!? I'm sold.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Danger Zone » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:38 am

One person = anecdote
Moar persons = DATA

Show us the LawFax, Ms. Levine.

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t-14orbust
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby t-14orbust » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:43 am

Shyamalan twist: Levine is scifiguy

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elterrible78
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby elterrible78 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:00 pm

SKA wrote:You may have been looking at the 2009 version of her book, when apps were at all-time high. Here is her response to your post:

http://lawschoolexpert.com/application- ... +Expert%29


She seems to be largely right, at least for the Top 14. I am going to post on my own blog shortly about this, but in the meantime, here are the boosts that I have calculated for earlier applications, comparing applications prior to 2010 to those from the 2010-2011 cycle onward.

Image

While the boost for earlier applications is substantially bigger in Chicago and Penn AFTER 2010, for everyone else the boost got smaller (in some cases substantially smaller) or completely disappeared.

Redfactor
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Redfactor » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:03 pm

.
Last edited by Redfactor on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:11 pm

Redfactor wrote:
SKA wrote:You may have been looking at the 2009 version of her book, when apps were at all-time high. Here is her response to your post:

http://lawschoolexpert.com/application- ... +Expert%29


Why blog a response? Why not just post the response here?


I believe when Ms. Levine poasts on her website, she is able to simultaneously poast her reply on Facebook, Twitter, Google+, etc. And all of her prospective clients/followers would thus be in a position to survey her response.
Last edited by Dr. Dre on Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Humbert Humbert » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:14 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
SKA wrote:You may have been looking at the 2009 version of her book, when apps were at all-time high. Here is her response to your post:

http://lawschoolexpert.com/application- ... +Expert%29


She seems to be largely right, at least for the Top 14. I am going to post on my own blog shortly about this, but in the meantime, here are the boosts that I have calculated for earlier applications, comparing applications prior to 2010 to those from the 2010-2011 cycle onward.

Image

While the boost for earlier applications is substantially bigger in Chicago and Penn AFTER 2010, for everyone else the boost got smaller (in some cases substantially smaller) or completely disappeared.


ET - I'm confused. In your recent blog post on this, you have Columbia and NYU's "early app" boost at 27% and 18.8%, respectively. Yet above, you list both as NSS. Why? Am I reading your data wrong?

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:23 pm

I wonder what Mike Spivey has got to say about this. . .

20141023
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby 20141023 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:41 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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elterrible78
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby elterrible78 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:54 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Humbert Humbert wrote:ET - I'm confused. In your recent blog post on this, you have Columbia and NYU's "early app" boost at 27% and 18.8%, respectively. Yet above, you list both as NSS. Why? Am I reading your data wrong?

Correct me if I'm wrong elterrible, but it looks like the numbers on your blog are the numbers for all the data, whereas the data you posted above is broken up by Pre-2010 versus Post-2010. Accordingly, the combined data of 32.5% & (NSS) = 27.0% for Columbia and 20.3% & (NSS) = 18.8% for NYU.

(By the way, what is the range of the data that you used on your blog? Is it starting from the application cycle of 2003~2004 and going through our cycle?)


Yeah, this is the answer to the above question. But Ann Levine brings up a super point, which is that things have likely changed since the # of applicants started falling off. And yes, I'm using everything from 2003 going forward through this past cycle. I planned to do this all along, and somewhere along the way forgot, but I'm going to start looking at things both pre- and post-applicant cratering, because I think the post-2010 stuff is likely more relevant to current applicants.

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Humbert Humbert » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:56 pm

elterrible78 wrote:
kappycaft1 wrote:
Humbert Humbert wrote:ET - I'm confused. In your recent blog post on this, you have Columbia and NYU's "early app" boost at 27% and 18.8%, respectively. Yet above, you list both as NSS. Why? Am I reading your data wrong?

Correct me if I'm wrong elterrible, but it looks like the numbers on your blog are the numbers for all the data, whereas the data you posted above is broken up by Pre-2010 versus Post-2010. Accordingly, the combined data of 32.5% & (NSS) = 27.0% for Columbia and 20.3% & (NSS) = 18.8% for NYU.

(By the way, what is the range of the data that you used on your blog? Is it starting from the application cycle of 2003~2004 and going through our cycle?)


Yeah, this is the answer to the above question. But Ann Levine brings up a super point, which is that things have likely changed since the # of applicants started falling off. And yes, I'm using everything from 2003 going forward through this past cycle. I planned to do this all along, and somewhere along the way forgot, but I'm going to start looking at things both pre- and post-applicant cratering, because I think the post-2010 stuff is likely more relevant to current applicants.


Gotcha, thanks for clarifying. And I agree with the bolded.

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Dr. Dre
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby Dr. Dre » Wed Aug 14, 2013 1:57 pm

SEE Humbert Humbert!!! I told ya I was right

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MikeSpivey
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Re: Does Ann K. Levine contradict herself?

Postby MikeSpivey » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:52 pm

Dr. Dre wrote:I wonder what Mike Spivey has got to say about this. . .


I just read her blog linked from here, she seems to be saying exactly what I am and have been saying. So I am in agreement with her take. The Terrible has been kind enough to share his analysis and regression results with me, and I am going to have some future implications up on my blog tomorrow from his work and what I have heard buzzing around admissions folks.




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