cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

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sarcasticzebra
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cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:40 am

I have called LSAC and inquired on here and cant get any straight answers regarding Ws on transcript.

In my case the Ws do not count in my gpa, on the transcript legend it says W=not computed, on the Interpretive Guide to Undergraduate grading procedures on LSAC website it says Ws are omitted from my school. When I called LSAC today, and talked to 2 different reps, here is what I was told.

Rep 1 said, "We would have to see the wording on the transcript, because it can be nonpunitive at your school and LSAC could count it".

Then when I called again, I said I looked up my school on the LSAc link and it said Ws were omitted, can they still be treated punitively when it says they arent. She said Yes, they can, and she said what school? and I told her Kent State University, and she said Yes, at this time Ws are omitted there, and I said, so that means that it should be the same when I submit the transcript and she said, unless something changes at your school

I have heard some people on here claim that there Ws were counted as Fs. Were those people actually right? Anyone else have non punitive Ws count as Fs?

20141023
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby 20141023 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 11:44 am

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barberiolisa
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby barberiolisa » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:18 pm

Thanks kappycaft1 for the help and reply. I called my registrars office and they said they just print W on the transcript, not the date/deadline when a student withdrew. Not that that would me any I am sure.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:23 pm

I had two W's. LSAC didn't count them and I don't think many of the schools I applied to cared.

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rinkrat19
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:26 pm

Just send in the bloody transcripts and find out. There's no point in debating and pearl-clutching over it when you could just get the actual, definitive answer in a week.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:30 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:Just send in the bloody transcripts and find out. There's no point in debating and pearl-clutching over it when you could just get the actual, definitive answer in a week.


This.

sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:42 pm

Well, I guess I was just hoping that by inquiring on here, I could get some close to definate answers, but I guess thats a no and I call LSAC and they give me a different answer constantly. I will be applying next year, so if I have my transcripts sent in now, accoring to the Rep, she said I would have to pay the 160.00 fee now for Credential Assembly Service.

This really bothers me tremendously about the possibility of non-punitive, non effecting gpa Withdrawals can get counted as Fs, when others from my school said there Ws were omitted, says omitted on Interpretive Guide, and on my transcript legend it says they are non computed. I realize people say well then get it fixed, but the way they operate, I am sure they will just refuse.

I wouldnt normally be worried, but I read threads on here where some claim they have non punitive Ws that get counted as Fs, and I dont know if they are mistaken or right, and my gpa is well above 3.0, at the 3.3 range and I am scoring in the 170s on my diagnostics, so if they count them as Fs (and I have semesters of Ws from problems that occured) then I have too much lose since that will make my 3.3 go down to a 1.something, and who would admit someone with an LSAC of 1.something and 170+ score?

Sorry, but I think its ridiculous how LSAC transcript summarization works, and even on their website they contradict themselves. My Ws are regular Ws by the way, but how they contradict themselves is: On excluded grades they put WFs are omitted unless the school considers them punitive, and then lower where they say failure: failure is defined as credit attempted but not earned, even if the school considers the grade nonpunitive. See what I mean?

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:50 pm

I'm 95% sure your W's are not going to be considered punitive by LSAC just like I'm 95% sure my W's won't be considered punitive by LSAC.

sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:54 pm

thanks CyanIdes of March.

Do you by any chance know of anyone who had non punitive Ws that were counted punitive and they successfully got LSAC to change it, by letter from school, etc. ?

Also what do these representatives mean when they say, "It depends on how its worded on the transcript"? Does that mean that even if the W doesnt effect the gpa, if they show attempted hours under transcript totals thats a cue for them to count them? OR do they mean the wording of the transcript is what the transcript key says about a W?

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North
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby North » Mon Jul 22, 2013 12:58 pm

LSAC CAS lasts for five years. You're going to pay the $160 eventually. This seems to really be bothering you, so why not just pay it now and send your transcripts in?

I set up my CAS almost 2 years in advance for pretty much the same (stupid, neurotic) reason.

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hoos89
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby hoos89 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:01 pm

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sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:04 pm

thanks hoos89,

well my school lists attempted hours on the actual transcript. so hopefully like you said, they will just omit the Ws, since they are plain Ws non counting

sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:08 pm

Last question (I promise) --

If LSAC has an interpretive guide on the website where you type in school name (which I did) and says Ws are omitted, then how come one representative said we would have to see the transcript and then we vote on whether its punitive or not. I mean, if they already have the charts for almost every school on that link that tells whats punitive and not, then whats the point of voting on it? doesnt make sense

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North
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby North » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:13 pm

sarcasticzebra wrote:Last question (I promise) --

If LSAC has an interpretive guide on the website where you type in school name (which I did) and says Ws are omitted, then how come one representative said we would have to see the transcript and then we vote on whether its punitive or not. I mean, if they already have the charts for almost every school on that link that tells whats punitive and not, then whats the point of voting on it? doesnt make sense

Dude... Your W's almost certainly don't count. And if they do there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it right now. Wring your hands about something else.

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hoos89
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby hoos89 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:15 pm

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:18 pm

sarcasticzebra wrote:thanks CyanIdes of March.

Do you by any chance know of anyone who had non punitive Ws that were counted punitive and they successfully got LSAC to change it, by letter from school, etc. ?

Also what do these representatives mean when they say, "It depends on how its worded on the transcript"? Does that mean that even if the W doesnt effect the gpa, if they show attempted hours under transcript totals thats a cue for them to count them? OR do they mean the wording of the transcript is what the transcript key says about a W?


They are probably just covering their asses with the most vague and general answers possible since every case is slightly different. All they will do is check to see if your school counted your grade as a 0 instead of as nothing. If your school didn't do that and it doesn't specifically say your grade is counted as no credit, or punitive, then you're good.

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StillIll
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby StillIll » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:24 pm

Second that you should just send it in. Answers from third parties like us aren't going to have the 100% certainty that sending it will. And you have to send your transcipt in anyway if you're going to apply to law school -- getting a response from us won't change that. Do it and see what happens. If they are punitive, then you can attempt to appeal (if that's something that can be done), or you can change your plans / forecasts. Fact is you need to get an accurate picture of your GPA and where you stand and the best way to do that is to just send your transcript in.

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North
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby North » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:26 pm

The LSAC shrew you talked to wouldn't have given you a straight answer if you had asked her what time it was.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:31 pm

North wrote:The LSAC shrew you talked to wouldn't have given you a straight answer if you had asked her what time it was.


I remember once I called to ask about the specific LSAC GPA cut off. I wasn't sure at what point they rounded up or down (later, consensus seemed to say 3.xx7 was the cut off). The lady kept insisting that a GPA couldn't possibly mathematically be a 3.xxx, so there was no such thing as rounding from the thousandths place. I had to just hang up the phone because wasn't sure if she knew what I even meant by thousandths place.

But for the most part they have been somewhat helpful.

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rinkrat19
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:53 pm

CyanIdes Of March wrote:
North wrote:The LSAC shrew you talked to wouldn't have given you a straight answer if you had asked her what time it was.


I remember once I called to ask about the specific LSAC GPA cut off. I wasn't sure at what point they rounded up or down (later, consensus seemed to say 3.xx7 was the cut off). The lady kept insisting that a GPA couldn't possibly mathematically be a 3.xxx, so there was no such thing as rounding from the thousandths place. I had to just hang up the phone because wasn't sure if she knew what I even meant by thousandths place.

But for the most part they have been somewhat helpful.

I only had to call them once, when my account showed me as missing a transcript from XX State Univ., when actually I'd taken a few classes at XX Comm. Coll. and never attended that particular state U. Since a missing transcript is a big red flag, I had to get that sorted out before I could do ANYTHING. I though I was going to have to get proof from the state U that I'd never been enrolled or something, but all it took was a phone call to ask them to check my original info again and the transcripts I'd sent in, and they fixed it within a day.

Ti Malice
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:57 pm

RetakeFrenzy wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:Just send in the bloody transcripts and find out. There's no point in debating and pearl-clutching over it when you could just get the actual, definitive answer in a week.


This.

CyanIdes Of March wrote:I'm 95% sure your W's are not going to be considered punitive by LSAC just like I'm 95% sure my W's won't be considered punitive by LSAC.

North wrote:LSAC CAS lasts for five years. You're going to pay the $160 eventually. This seems to really be bothering you, so why not just pay it now and send your transcripts in?

hoos89 wrote:Why are you worrying about something that is so absurdly unlikely to occur? If it happens, THEN worry about it. Unless your school designated the W's as punitive, there is no reason that LSAC should. That is what the LSAC person means by "how it is worded." If they say W-Fail or something like that, then they will count against you. Do you seriously think LSAC is looking to see some random "attempted hours" figure that a lot of schools don't even include on transcripts? Stop thinking so much.

North wrote:Dude... Your W's almost certainly don't count. And if they do there's ABSOLUTELY NOTHING you can do about it right now. Wring your hands about something else.


All of this. For the love of god, just send the transcript. You have to submit it eventually, and nothing you do before submitting it will have any impact on what the LSAC does. What practical objective do you hope to accomplish with weeks of neurotic handwringing over something both highly unlikely to occur and over which you can have no influence before the fact?

sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:04 pm

Sorry Ti Malice, this will be my last thread on this. I am just going to submit the transcript early because I cant take worrying over it much more, so you wont see anymore threads on this (just replies) on this one if someone writes something. Cant you see though where I am coming from? I mean it would be unfortunate to have spent over a year prepping for the LSAT now in the 170s in my diagnostics, and to lose a 3.3 gpa all the way down to maybe a 1.something because LSAC could decide to treat the Ws as punitive. So thats what my complaint is that I wasted all this time LSAT studying for nothing, because I dont know of anyone that can get accepted to a decent school with a 170+ and 1.xx.....even though the 170 would help the medians. So I wont make anymore threads, only replying on this one if someone posts something else.

Also why do you suppose that some people on here claim that there non punitive Ws got counted as punitive? Could it have been that they had other bad grades, and they thought it was the Ws (not realizing they had other grades that hurt their LSAC gpa)? because theres at least 2 people on here that have said there Ws were nonpunitive and LSAC counted them as Fs.

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CyanIdes Of March
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby CyanIdes Of March » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:07 pm

sarcasticzebra wrote:Also why do you suppose that some people on here claim that there non punitive Ws got counted as punitive? Could it have been that they had other bad grades, and they thought it was the Ws (not realizing they had other grades that hurt their LSAC gpa)? because theres at least 2 people on here that have said there Ws were nonpunitive and LSAC counted them as Fs.


Feel free to link what ever thread you are referencing, I'm sure there's more going on there than what's been stated.

Ti Malice
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:35 pm

sarcasticzebra wrote:Sorry Ti Malice, this will be my last thread on this. I am just going to submit the transcript early because I cant take worrying over it much more, so you wont see anymore threads on this (just replies) on this one if someone writes something. Cant you see though where I am coming from? I mean it would be unfortunate to have spent over a year prepping for the LSAT now in the 170s in my diagnostics, and to lose a 3.3 gpa all the way down to maybe a 1.something because LSAC could decide to treat the Ws as punitive. So thats what my complaint is that I wasted all this time LSAT studying for nothing, because I dont know of anyone that can get accepted to a decent school with a 170+ and 1.xx.....even though the 170 would help the medians. So I wont make anymore threads, only replying on this one if someone posts something else.

Also why do you suppose that some people on here claim that there non punitive Ws got counted as punitive? Could it have been that they had other bad grades, and they thought it was the Ws (not realizing they had other grades that hurt their LSAC gpa)? because theres at least 2 people on here that have said there Ws were nonpunitive and LSAC counted them as Fs.


Look, I worried about things all throughout the admissions process, and it was a waste of my time and energy. At this rate, you'll be emotionally spent before you even have an actual LSAT score. The LSAC handles tens of thousands of transcripts every year, some number of them from your alma mater, and they seem to know what they're doing. If this were an actual issue, it would have come up on TLS more than a few times by now, and it would be received wisdom around here that the LSAC regularly screws up in its GPA computations. I agree with CyanIdes that cases you're mentioning almost certainly involve more than what the posters stated.

sarcasticzebra
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Re: cant get a straight answer regarding Ws

Postby sarcasticzebra » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:04 pm

when LSAC calculates/summarizes transcripts do they calculate by hand or have some computer program they utilize?




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