Advised to retake/reapply? - success stories

[Tekrul]

Waiting out a full cycle, especially for k-ba kids trying to go straight through can be pretty daunting. Even more for those with majors suited for further study and with no jobs lined up. For those working other jobs and or those with no other prospects but law school, the decision can be tough as well. Something like getting acceptance letters to dream schools but offered no money or missing the mark and accepting ones own safeties can make the choice confusing.

But oftentimes, it is the best choice to retake and reapply and there are stories scattered across the board of success stories. Captainleela's story from another thread is especially informative and there are many others that could benefit from it outside that lone thread. This advice extends to many "what should I do" threads and everyone should have the benefit of seeing them.

So post them all together and give the doubtful peace of mind!

Having these altogether as a compilation will be beneficial to those looking for confirmation, confidence, and courage in taking this leap.

I have no story of my own to add but I've read some really inspiring ones here. Please share them. (I will also be looking for the ones I've found and posting links to them here when I'm at a computer instead of an iPad)

[igelchen]

Took LSAT #1 summer before senior year of undergrad. "studied" over the summer with kaplan book. Went into LSAT not knowing that there were two sections of LR or an experimental section. Got 161. Applied to u chicago ED because I did not know better. Got rejected.

Applied to every paralegal position on usajobs. Got one. Had a wonderful 2 years in DC. In second year, coughed up cash for powerscore class. Studied like hell for 3 months. Got 177. Applied to t14 minus chicago out of spite for rejecting me. Got in everywhere but yale.

Finishing up 1L at HLS, and could not be happier.

good luck!

[Tekrul]

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=208046

This is one of the more informative threads. In it is TripTrip's successful retake/reapply as well as quoted stories CaptainLeela and darkgreyclouds.

I don't know how to quote and post those threads here I can only copy the link.

[CaptainLeela]

During the 2010-2011 cycle I applied directly out of undergrad (less than 1 year of WE) and was waitlisted at Duke, Columbia, Georgetown, Northwestern, & American, accepted at Temple with (90k), and rejected at a number of other places with a 3.65/169.

I knew that I had underperformed my ability (and probably my numbers) through a combination of poor school selection, application choices, and not being 100% ready to apply that due to personal reasons (I'm happy to share, but they aren't specifically relevant here and I don't want to turn this into a novella). I discovered TLS about 2/3 of the way through the cycle and although I put a deposit in at Temple, I never really had any intention of attending. I wasn't sure that re-applying would make a difference, but I was uncomfortable with the options available to me and wanted to take another shot at a huge financial/time/professional investment.

I took 2 years "off" from the law school application process. I worked as a shitlaw paralegal 1 year at a firm that is truly as bottom of the barrel as you can get and 1 year as a paralegal for an estates and probate firm. During this time I gained an amazing sense of what (some) attorneys actually DO, really confirmed my interest in going to law school, and gained invaluable professional skills...both in the office and just being an adult in general.

This cycle I emphasized the things I learned through my work experience in my PS (and actually specifically referenced my failed previous cycle in my PS), wrote highly tailored Why Xs (something I didn't do in the previous cycle), had 2 stellar LORs from attorneys I work with extremely closely, and a dramatically improved resume.

This cycle I was accepted to BU (60K), Fordham (90K), OSU (42K), GW (75K), Cornell (60K), Georgetown, Duke (60K), Michigan; Waitlisted at Penn, Columbia & Northwestern (I dunno?). Here, I do disagree with the conventional TLS wisdom a bit that softs don't matter. I think the presentation of your application, work experience, PS, and overall narrative CAN be significant if you can create a narrative that shows an appealing candidate in CONJUNCTION with strong numbers (my situation is obvious proof that numbers aren't the only thing that matter).

Lastly, please don't quote this paragraph I didn't re-apply with a higher LSAT score. I retook the LSAT in October 2012, and scored a 168. I was struggling with some serious chronic health issues that included exhaustion, serious brain fog, migraines, chronic pain, etc. It explained why my studying in the run-up to the October test was such a struggle and I didn't see gains despite intensive studying. By the time I had discovered 1) what the problem was and 2) begun to manage it I already had completed the cycle. (Again, please don't quote this paragraph only, this will be an on-going auto-immune issue and I want to be able to pull this in the future if it becomes an issue with legal employment/OCI. TYIA)

I share the above, because one of the common concerns about re-take/re-apply is "what if my score goes down?" It is 100% possible to be successful with a lower score!! Your highest score WILL be what is considered! I'm absolute proof that softs matter (at least to a degree!)

Feel free to PM me about anything you see here...and if you decide that re-applying is the right road for you good luck!

TL; DR- Going to Duke with $$ instead of Temple. Thanks TLS!

[romothesavior]

Because I think this is a great thread that could have great benefits to prospective students contemplating a retake, I've moved it to the Admissions forum.

I want to encourage everyone who has retaken and seen big improvements, especially those who took time off to do so, to PLEASE share your experience in this thread. If you made a thread where you got the "retake" advice from fellow TLSers, the link would nice to include. It would also be great if you popped into the Choosing a Law School forum every now and then to share your experience with people who are currently in the shoes you used to be in. Retaking and taking time off is a really difficult and scary decision for many people, but as those of us who've spent some time here know, it is usually well worth it.

Perhaps no group has benefited from TLS as much as the "wait a year, retake, reapply, ?, profit" crew, and I'm a big believer in paying it forward to the next class of applicants. Please share your experiences!

[Clearly]

Hated the idea of sitting out an additional year. Did it anyway after realizing the gravity of the decision. Busted my ass and jumped from 164 to 176. Have a pretty bad GPA, and will still likely have T14 options because of the retake. I literally owe TLS for this, I was a believer in Cardozo at sticker when I got here, and was seconds away from pulling the trigger on a terrible move like that. A retake drastically improved my options. If your on the fence about sitting out a cycle, just do it. You have little to lose and a lot to gain. The very worst that can happen is you end up where you started, but with a year of work experience.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

Please don't quote this in case I ever decide to delete this, since there are a decent amount of personal details in this.

I wasn't 100% sure what to do after graduating and applying to law school was always in the back of my mind, so I signed up for a powerscore class for the August/Sept. test in 2009. Diagnostic was 155 and I was able to get in the 160s by the end of the class, though I was putting in half-effort (I was basically doing the bare minimum of "homework" and only a couple of practice tests outside of the six that were proctored for the class). I ended up with a 163 on the Aug/Sept test, which I was pretty okay with. Around that time I found TLS and started to think that I should maybe retake.

Wavered on the decision a little, but took the LSAT again in December after some self-study, using the powerscore materials. I had gotten my average in the high 160s, and ended up with a 166 on the December test. Once again, I was pretty happy with that score at the time and thought it was good enough to get me into UT, which was my goal school from the very start. I ended up getting WL'd at UT, which was a bummer, but I was pretty happy to have the option of Notre Dame with $.

After the December test, I tried to find a part-time job to do before law school next fall (I had finished classes in January, so I had extra time on my hands). I got lucky and got a job with a test prep company, even with the mediocre score, and was essentially paid to study more for the LSAT. I didn't even actually think of taking the LSAT for the third time until sometime in May, when I realized I should probably take a PT and see if I could improve on the 166. I got a 170 on it, first time I cracked 170, and with more work on timing (teaching the LSAT doesn't necessarily help you with the timing as much), I was able to get my PT average in the mid-170s. Took it in June and got a 174. Got off UT and Vanderbilt's WL and offered a decent amount of money at each. I was really close to choosing UT, but I really wanted to see what my options would be if I had the 174 at the beginning of my cycle and had applied to most of the T14. So decided to wait and reapply. The reapplying was actually pretty stressful--I got into UT EA, but didn't get offered any money initially, I got WL'd at Columbia, Chicago, NYU, and Michigan. I got deferred at Penn, I didn't write a LOCI, which I think helped lead to the rejection. Got into NU and UVA, but didn't know if I would get any money for awhile. I ended up getting 20K/yr offer from UVA sometime in the summer, which UT matched (which made UT substantially cheaper, since I had instate tuition). It was a hard decision, but ended up choosing UT. Waiting that year probably only resulted in a total of ~20K saved for all three years because of the higher scholarship (and this is trying to account for the slight increase in tuition), so arguably I should have chosen UT the year before, without reapplying. But I think the extra year was extremely valuable for me. It allowed me to make sure I really wanted to go to law school, and also never wonder "what if?", which would happen if I never reapplied. And I think it helped me be even happier with my decision to attend UT, since I was able to fully weigh my options. The decision to retake in June was absolutely huge. If I hadn't retaken I would have incurred a lot more debt at Notre Dame and would have had a much harder time making my way back to Texas.

TL;DR: Took three times: 163 (Aug./Sept.), 166 (Dec.), 174 (June). Got off WL at UT with money with the 174. Ended up sitting out the year and reapplying with the 174 and ended up at UT with even more money. Without taking a third time, I would have been at Notre Dame with 12K/yr (IIRC) scholarship compared to what happened, UT at instate tuition + 20K/yr scholarship.

Once again, please don't quote this in case I ever decide to delete this, since there are a decent amount of personal details in this.

[fruitoftheloom]

No quoting please.

I took the LSAT in Sept/Oct 2007, before I heard of TLS. Got a 163 with no prep/study. I was getting ready to graduate - I only didn't land at law school because I hated school so much that I decided to take time off.

After some time working, I took the LSAT in Feb 12 with the plan of attending LS part time and working full time. I got a 167 and was ready to head to the U of Houston. My prep basically consisted of taking 10 LSATs between 1990 - 2000 (it was the 10 real LSATs book). I discovered TLS after I took the test. I started a thread under an old name and discussed merits of part time vs full time. Between TLS & talking to people in the part time program, I realized that I would not be successful working full time (for a manger who is not flexible) and going to school part time. Using TLS advice, I studied my ass off for the LSAT. I also wrote what I think is a compelling personal statement (cautionary here - I ended up using my PS *against* TLS advice. I did so because everyone agreed it was well written, but they wanted me to focus on one incident rather than a tale of how/why I decided to go to law school).

I got a 174 in Oct 12, using the PS bibles and TLS. My gpa is pretty mediocre (3.5ish), so I really think the only reason I got the amazing acceptances I did is because of my LSAT and work experience. Anyway, now I'm heading to a T14 and I will be able to keep my debt load low.

TL;DR - TLS convinced me to retake (even after I started a thread where I dismissed everyone, including Romo, who told me to retake). Now I'm heading to an awesome T14 and limiting debt.

[tehkris]

Post after post of epic wins

[Micdiddy]

Awesome thread. I wish I had a compelling story to add, but I'm happy reading the successes and hope to hear many more.

[JamMasterJ]

Took twice in the c/o 2014 cycle - 166/166. Studied a month and a half the first time, and less than a month the second time.
Retook after 4ish months of study - 176.
Went from Notre Dame with 9k/yr --> NYU with over 1/3 scholly.

[SemperLegal]

Took LSAT in 2008 got a 161. Accepted into my UG's law school with scholarship. Was hyped until I found TLS.

Did a retake after a mostly useless paid course, but I suck at self-study so any structure is better than no structure. I got a 169. Applied right out of UG and got Fordham ($), GULC, and another lower T14,

Sat out a cycle to get some more real life experience and build a bankroll. Lower T10 ($$$$).

1L, loving it,

[buddyt]

Took a 3-week Kaplan course (complete waste of money) prior to the June 2011 test. Got a 157.

Discovered TLS, studied for a couple more months, took the October 2011 test. Got a 161. Got into my flagship regional school with a small scholly. Decided to wait a year and retake.

Got some professional work experience at an international technology consulting company. While working, studied for another 4-5 months going into the October 2012 test. Was PTing in the low 170s. Got a 166. Was disappointed, but I never had T14/biglaw aspirations anyhow. Reapplied and now I'll likely be going to that same flagship regional school for close to free. Hours spent studying for my 3rd take were worth about $235/hr in increased merit aid.

Retaking and reapplying literally saved me about $50k and gave me quality professional work experience that I expect will help me when looking for a legal job.

[North]

These stories are great and incredibly valuable. I've got a success story of my own. I'll write it up and edit this post with it soon.

[thatmanheisapoet]

.

[francesfarmer]

I took the LSAT in 2009 with about a month of prep using shitty materials. Got a 170. I applied late in the cycle, and with my meh GPA and that year's spike in applications, the best I got was waitlisted at Georgetown. I was unemployed at the time, so it seemed like pretty good option.

Luckily, I found a part-time job soon after and decided to put off law school. I was promoted, lateraled to another company, and now I'm making contacts in the industry I want to work in. I'm also enjoying the hell out of my early 20s--traveling, partying, relaxing, doing whatever I want to do.

I retook in 2012 because I always knew I could do better, and I did. Even though I only went up 2 points, those four months of studying were 100% worth it. As of last week I was in with $ at P/M/C/G I was going to sit out another cycle and probably retake again because I wasn't completely happy with those options...but then I heard from Columbia

Waiting was the best decision I have ever made.

[illiniguy1551]

Most of these stories involve higher scores than mine. However, I applied after October 2011 LSAT with a disappointing 157. After getting wait-listed at my choice school (Big Ten - ranked in top 50), I elected to take a year off and retake the LSAT. I studied more, was PT'ing from 160 to 165, and scored even lower the second time I took it, a 154 in October 2012. Simply put, I was devastated. I still sent out applications and vowed to retake one last time in February, snagging a 164.

Now I am attending the school I was originally wait-listed at with an 80%< scholarship. If I hadn't retaken my life would be headed in a much different and worse-off direction, and I would have wasted my good GPA. I think people should retake the LSAT 3x even if they don't study that much more. I attribute my third score to having a better attitude, being less fearful of the test at that point, getting lucky with the experimental section, and getting all of the types of LG I am good at. Literally could not have asked for a better test.

In short, I'm a pretty self-motivated person, but TLS gave me that extra incentive to push myself beyond my abilities on the LSAT. The "retake" advice is so legit, yet you won't hear it from pre-law advisers since "statistically people can't improve their score."

[francesfarmer]

unquoted[/img]

Now I'm going to HLS. For the love of god, use TLS, max out your re-takes, its so worth it.

::slowclap::

[maggielizer]

While not nearly as dramatic a leap as any of the previous accounts, my modest LSAT gains still paid off enormously, and all thanks to TLS.

Took a December LSAT, got a 166 and applied to schools in late January. I was thrilled by my T1 acceptances but scared off by the prospect of debt. Found TLS and, urged on by the advice of posters here, retook the LSAT this October. Scored a 169 – initially disappointed that I didn’t improve more, but I also had the advantage of being able to reapply early. ED’d to NYU and was admitted with $. I’ll be moving to Greenwich Village in 3 months.

[sabanist]

I don't have anything on the reapplying front, but retaking was the best decision I've ever made, and by far my most profitable time investment.

I did minimal studying for take one in June 2012. One month of PS Bibles and maybe 6 or 7 PTs. I expected to coast into the high 170s and was dead wrong.
My score wasn't horrible, and I stood a minuscule chance at still getting into my dream school - HLS - with it. But I was brutal with myself, and I asked myself: if you are too lazy to study your ass off for a couple more months and nail this thing to the wall, what on earth makes you think you deserve to get into your dream school? What makes you think you will succeed in law school if you can't muster the energy to take a multiple choice test a second time right now?
Some people even told me retaking wasn't necessary, and as badly as I wanted to listen to them, I knew I would regret it for the rest of my life if I were rejected from my dream school (and probably my dream job) or lost out on scholarship money because I couldn't put forth the effort on the front end. Don't let confirmation bias talk you out of making the right choice.

I worked forty hours a week, took 12 hours of classes on top of that, and still forced myself to study every day of the week except for Saturdays for well-deserved football breaks. Manhattan, drilling, and 25+ PTs later, I landed well over the 75th percentile on the retake and got a JS1 invite 2 days after my application went complete.

Any time I ran out of energy or just wanted to quit, I reminded myself of what I was doing it for. You have no reason to settle if there is even the tiniest chance of improvement. It could change the rest of your life.

I want to hug everyone who makes the decision to retake and reapply. You're awesome, you're making a good choice, and you're not alone. PM me any time.

[SemperLegal]

Congrats to everyone with the huge turnaround stories, they are super encouraging.

However, for pessimists who don't think they can improve that much, I just want to point out the big difference in admissions, and the HUGE difference in $$$ that a few points can bring, even if statistically the scores mean the same thing:

Source: Gleaned from a random, unscientific search of LSN where I compared 3 admits from a random T100 (Mostly UMiss and Loyola) school w/ the same stats with 3 admits from the same school with a slightly better LSAT and similar GPA. Scholarship is for all 3 years.

154->155 (13k)
158->160 (21k)
167->169 (15k)
170->172 (18k)

[TheThriller]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

[Micdiddy]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

Um, you need to seriously retake again if your score dropped that much from the PTs.

[TheThriller]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

Um, you need to seriously retake again if your score dropped that much from the PTs.

I am:

A) Afraid that if I don't improve again I wont get this type of money again (I am a splitter)
B) Unemployed, with an unemployable major. Which means that come August when my paid-for lease ends, I will be living off my own savings

If I can a job within the next 2 weeks I will study and retake in Oct. But right now I don't know what to do. I was all set to attend Emory.

[SemperLegal]

Spent 4 months studying for June 2012 - 167
Spent 3 months studying for Feb 2013, PTd high 170s (about 25+ PTs) - 166

Now I'm graduating w/o a job and only 1/2 scholarships from T20s. Pretty meh for TLS. Sorry if this wasn't the success story you were looking for.

I truly am sorry that you didn't have the outcome you were/are looking for.

I feel really shitty using someone as a negative example, because its a shitty thing to do. But this goes to show that a year "wasted" doing a retake, especially if you know you can do better can result in either a) a higher ranked school, b) significantly less debt.

Better to waste a year between UG and law school, being reckless and carefree, then after LS worried about the shelf life of your JD.


Sorry again, Thriller, and I am sure you are sick of hearing this, but its not over yet. A friend of mine who is a graduating 3L just landed a job last week in house with a tech company. Its not market, but its a good outcome.


__________________________________

Edit, misread the post. Take the year off, retest so that you either don't end up at a T20 or you have no debt. Its worth wasting a year now to save a post-LS wasted year.

As for paying the bills, look for the shittest (retail or day labor) job you can find and take solace in the fact its only for a year. Even living on credit card debt, is arguably worthwhile if it means that you can save 10's of K a year on tuition payments