Other Schools See Other Schools?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
JAAHJAAHCITY
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2012 1:48 pm

Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby JAAHJAAHCITY » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:23 pm

Quick question. Can other schools see this list of schools that one is applying to through LSAC? I remember when applying to Undergrad, one of the questions asked "what other schools do you intend to apply to". Just wondering if it was the case with law schools....

Thanks.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby 2014 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:25 pm

No they can't but on many applications they ask you to list other schools you are applying to. The advice here tends to be that you do not have to spout off a full list rather you should just list mostly peer schools.

They will be able to see where you have deposited at though come late spring.

User avatar
Yardbird
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:45 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Yardbird » Mon Aug 13, 2012 2:51 pm

2014 wrote:No they can't but on many applications they ask you to list other schools you are applying to. The advice here tends to be that you do not have to spout off a full list rather you should just list mostly peer schools.

They will be able to see where you have deposited at though come late spring.

I would second the peers schools only. Columbia doesn't need to know you're applying to Fordham, but it will care if you are applying to NYU and might throw some more money your way if they think you'll also get into NYU (or throw even more if they think you might get HYS).

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Mon Aug 13, 2012 3:54 pm

Yeah, just list whatever schools you feel like listing. You don't have to answer the question truthfully. Schools don't care about lying.

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... t-lie.aspx

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby 2014 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:07 pm

No one is advocating lying, nice of you to assume we are though. We are instead saying that if you are applying to the better part of the T30 and some regional T2s like a good portion of TLS does, that schools neither do or should expect you to vomit 25 schools out in response to that question.

Rather if Fordham asks "Please list other law schools you are applying to" it might make sense to say "BU, BC, Notre Dame, GW, Cardozo" in which case nothing you said is a lie.

If the application says "Please list all other schools you are applying to" then do whatever you think is right.

User avatar
Ozymandias
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Ozymandias » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:10 pm

AntipodeanPhil wrote:Yeah, just list whatever schools you feel like listing. You don't have to answer the question truthfully. Schools don't care about lying.

http://blogs.law.yale.edu/blogs/admissi ... t-lie.aspx

Because people totally said you should lie...

Good grief.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:37 pm

2014 wrote:No one is advocating lying, nice of you to assume we are though. We are instead saying that if you are applying to the better part of the T30 and some regional T2s like a good portion of TLS does, that schools neither do or should expect you to vomit 25 schools out in response to that question.

Rather if Fordham asks "Please list other law schools you are applying to" it might make sense to say "BU, BC, Notre Dame, GW, Cardozo" in which case nothing you said is a lie.

If the application says "Please list all other schools you are applying to" then do whatever you think is right.

LOL. So if an application asks you to list felonies and misdemeanors you have been convicted of, it's okay to list just some, right? No need to list them all, so long as the question doesn't explicitly include the word "all."

To lie is "to create a false or misleading impression." To list five schools (only peer schools, for example) when you're applying to ten is to straightforwardly imply that you are only applying to those five schools. That is a misleading impression.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby 2014 » Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:51 pm

Fucking face palm, apples and oranges.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:26 am

2014 wrote:Fucking face palm, apples and oranges.

Nice reasoning.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:00 am

2014 wrote:They will be able to see where you have deposited at though come late spring.


Only if you've deposited at more than one school, and this info is only viewable by the schools at which you've deposited. If you're on the WL somewhere, that school won't have any idea where you've already deposited.

User avatar
top30man
Posts: 1224
Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:11 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby top30man » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:04 am

Kind of surprised that no one has said that schools don't care yet. Because I don't think they do. I listed all 21 schools on every app. The cycle went how it did for everyone with my numbers.
If they use it at all, its likely to simply collect demographic data.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby 2014 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:22 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
2014 wrote:Fucking face palm, apples and oranges.

Nice reasoning.

Says the guy who dragged a 10 foot straw man into the picture. Not disclosing a criminal record is a different issue than not fully disclosing information on a question that has no bearing on your qualifications as an applicant.

If a safety school asked the question "Please list your top 3 schools in order of preference", I'm sure you would jump at the chance to give them the middle finger in the interest of appealing to Asha right? Probably not, because It's an unreasonable question.

The point is that what schools you are applying to should have less than zero impact on whether you get accepted or not, but giving that information to schools can probably very easily lead them to waitlist you to protect their yield. If I'm an adcomm at StateU in flyover country and a 176/3.9 kid applies to me and then hands me the information that he is applying to HYSCCN and my esteemed institution ranked in the 80s, I'm going to WL the hell out of him and never think twice.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Samara » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:27 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
2014 wrote:No one is advocating lying, nice of you to assume we are though. We are instead saying that if you are applying to the better part of the T30 and some regional T2s like a good portion of TLS does, that schools neither do or should expect you to vomit 25 schools out in response to that question.

Rather if Fordham asks "Please list other law schools you are applying to" it might make sense to say "BU, BC, Notre Dame, GW, Cardozo" in which case nothing you said is a lie.

If the application says "Please list all other schools you are applying to" then do whatever you think is right.

LOL. So if an application asks you to list felonies and misdemeanors you have been convicted of, it's okay to list just some, right? No need to list them all, so long as the question doesn't explicitly include the word "all."

To lie is "to create a false or misleading impression." To list five schools (only peer schools, for example) when you're applying to ten is to straightforwardly imply that you are only applying to those five schools. That is a misleading impression.

You are an idiot. How can this possibly be checked for accuracy? What if you apply to some T1 schools in September and get a 174 on your October retake? Oops, I guess now you can't apply to T14 schools, because you didn't list them on your application.

I would be worried about C&F. How do you think they're going to feel when you listed Cornell as a school you were applying to, then you decided later you weren't interested in applying? You would be so screwed. /sarcasm

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:38 am

top30man wrote:Kind of surprised that no one has said that schools don't care yet. Because I don't think they do. I listed all 21 schools on every app. The cycle went how it did for everyone with my numbers.
If they use it at all, its likely to simply collect demographic data.

They must care at least a little, or else they wouldn't ask the question - but perhaps they just use it to collect general data about their applicants, as you suggest. Of course, if that's all they use it for, there's less reason to lie.

They could use it for more substantial decisions, though. For example: suppose that you describe strong family ties to Chicago in your PS (your partner has a job in the city, all your family live there, et cetera), and then you only list Chicago area schools in answering the "other schools" question. Chicago area schools might then assume that you're only applying to other Chicago schools, and that might affect how much scholarship money they offer, or whether they YP you.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:45 am

Samara wrote:You are an idiot. How can this possibly be checked for accuracy? What if you apply to some T1 schools in September and get a 174 on your October retake? Oops, I guess now you can't apply to T14 schools, because you didn't list them on your application.

Sure, schools might not be able to find out that you lied, but it's a lie all the same. Like the Yale blog post says, there are lots of things that you list in your application that schools can't really verify.

Also, changing your mind after submitting an application isn't lying, but not listing schools you've already applied to definitely is.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:49 am

2014 wrote:The point is that what schools you are applying to should have less than zero impact on whether you get accepted or not, but giving that information to schools can probably very easily lead them to waitlist you to protect their yield. If I'm an adcomm at StateU in flyover country and a 176/3.9 kid applies to me and then hands me the information that he is applying to HYSCCN and my esteemed institution ranked in the 80s, I'm going to WL the hell out of him and never think twice.

So, you think applicants should lie in answering the question because it's not right for schools to make decisions about applicants based on what other schools they're applying to. Fair enough. I'm just pointing out that it's lying - whether it's justified is a separate issue.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Samara » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:51 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
Samara wrote:You are an idiot. How can this possibly be checked for accuracy? What if you apply to some T1 schools in September and get a 174 on your October retake? Oops, I guess now you can't apply to T14 schools, because you didn't list them on your application.

Sure, schools might not be able to find out that you lied, but it's a lie all the same. Like the Yale blog post says, there are lots of things that you list in your application that schools can't really verify.

Also, changing your mind after submitting an application isn't lying, but not listing schools you've already applied to definitely is.

Well, if a Yale blog said it, it must be Gospel.

*sigh* Whatever dude, if you want to believe it's super important, then go for it. It's probably the least important question on the entire application. Yeah, you should list schools you've already applied to, but the wording on most apps isn't asking for an exhaustive list anyway. I am 99.9% certain the information you list under that question has zero impact on your application in any way.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:54 am

Samara wrote:*sigh* Whatever dude, if you want to believe it's super important, then go for it. It's probably the least important question on the entire application. Yeah, you should list schools you've already applied to, but the wording on most apps isn't asking for an exhaustive list anyway. I am 99.9% certain the information you list under that question has zero impact on your application in any way.

It's not super important. I doubt it makes any difference at all in most cases. So why lie about it?

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Samara » Tue Aug 14, 2012 11:57 am

AntipodeanPhil wrote:
Samara wrote:*sigh* Whatever dude, if you want to believe it's super important, then go for it. It's probably the least important question on the entire application. Yeah, you should list schools you've already applied to, but the wording on most apps isn't asking for an exhaustive list anyway. I am 99.9% certain the information you list under that question has zero impact on your application in any way.

It's not super important. I doubt it makes any difference at all in most cases. So why lie about it?

Why spend any amount of time worrying about it? Why are you so hung up on calling it lying?

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:02 pm

Samara wrote:
AntipodeanPhil wrote:
Samara wrote:*sigh* Whatever dude, if you want to believe it's super important, then go for it. It's probably the least important question on the entire application. Yeah, you should list schools you've already applied to, but the wording on most apps isn't asking for an exhaustive list anyway. I am 99.9% certain the information you list under that question has zero impact on your application in any way.

It's not super important. I doubt it makes any difference at all in most cases. So why lie about it?

Why spend any amount of time worrying about it? Why are you so hung up on calling it lying?

I don't like that people seem to think it's okay to lie so long as you don't/can't get caught. That and I'm bored at work today.

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby 2014 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:06 pm

If schools are going to ask an arguably pointless question for sketchy reasons they should expect sketchy responses. I still contend that an incomplete truth is not a lie, but I don't have a pocket dictionary that I reference during random internet debates.

User avatar
Samara
Posts: 3245
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 4:26 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Samara » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:08 pm

2014 wrote:If schools are going to ask an arguably pointless question for sketchy reasons they should expect sketchy responses. I still contend that an incomplete truth is not a lie, but I don't have a pocket dictionary that I reference during pointless debates.

LOL This.

User avatar
AntipodeanPhil
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:02 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby AntipodeanPhil » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:14 pm

2014 wrote:If schools are going to ask an arguably pointless question for sketchy reasons they should expect sketchy responses. I still contend that an incomplete truth is not a lie, but I don't have a pocket dictionary that I reference during random internet debates.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/lie

Took me all of about five seconds to google that.

I agree that the question is sketchy, though.

User avatar
Ozymandias
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:49 am

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby Ozymandias » Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:25 pm

FYI almost all schools have it as an optional question or say please list other schools to which you are applying or to which you have applied, leaving out "all" - so I'm not sure why you're throwing a fit about what a lie is and linking blog posts about C&F issues.

User avatar
alwayssunnyinfl
Posts: 4100
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:34 pm

Re: Other Schools See Other Schools?

Postby alwayssunnyinfl » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:17 pm

Ozymandias wrote:so I'm not sure why you're throwing a fit about what a lie is and linking blog posts about C&F issues.

TLS is why.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 3 guests