* Forum

[Kobaine51]

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[patrickd139]

I am not really sure what I should be doing to guarantee my admission into Harvard, Stanford or Yale. ... Can you help me?

On the off chance that this isn't a flame: Score a 180 on the LSAT and keep your GPA up. Then come back and make this pretentious thread.

Also, you're a sophomore? Enjoy college, don't fuck up the rest of it by stressing over law school; you'll probably be missing out on the best two years of your life.

[patrickd139]

I am a second year at a top 5 university which is known for grade deflation. My current GPA is 3.79. I will be taking the LSAT in June, because next autumn I will be in Paris during both the October and December LSATS. I do not want to take the test in February because I suspect that since my school is in a rather cold climate, I will be at a disadvantage when compared to - for instance - Stanford or Duke students. Dysthymia associated with short days leads to reduced analytic ability. Anyway, I started practicing the LSAT a week ago, and got a rather disappointing score on my timed diagnostic (162, Preptest 7), since then I have taken two more preptests untimed, (Preptest 9, Preptest 10) and received a 174 and a 169 which further disappointed me. I suspect in a few months, when I take the test I will be able to score in the mid to high 170's, if I am not able at that time, I will not take the test.

Anyway, given that information, I am not really sure what I should be doing to guarantee my admission into Harvard, Stanford or Yale. I would strongly prefer to go to Harvard or Yale because I am from the northeast and it would be nice to be closer to my friends and family. My problem is that before attending my current school, I attended two other schools (both of which I got 4.0 GPA's at) for one semester each. I am worried that this will disadvantage me. I decided to leave the top 50 private school that I originally attended to save around 10000 dollars and attend my states flagship university. I knew I would transfer into a better school (which I didnt originally attend because of dismal high school grades [I got the highest SAT score in my school but was in the bottom 10% for grades]) so it didn't make any sense to me to stay somewhere that A.) would cost me a great deal of money and B.) I would form a bond with before leaving. Though I think my logic was sound, I can see that admissions offices may not agree with me. In addition, my current school has brought down my GPA a bit. I got a B+ and a B first quarter and my other grades were all A-'s, no A's.

I feel that for the above reasons I will be at a disadvantage applying to Harvard, Yale and Stanford. I want to go to law school, but will not unless I get into one of these schools or a full ride to Columbia or Chicago. Given that, I have to do everything I can to improve my chances now while I have the time. Can you help me?

Also, QFP.

[dowu]

...

[Doorkeeper]

1) Boost your GPA as much as possible during your next two years. You want to get your GPA over 3.85 if you're going to be applying K-JD.
2) Score over a 175 on the LSAT

[PARTY]

Retake, ED to UVA.

You'll thank me.

[Kobaine51]

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[patrickd139]

Thank you for your advice, but - and not to be rude - high lsat and gpa are sortof self-evident. From looking at numbers, It looks like for instance Yale accepts about half of students with a 3.9 175, given that, what is differentiating the accepted group from the rejected group? I will have spent time abroad - which apparently helps applications for some obscure or fabricated reason - and I play intramural sports, but theres pretty much nothing else on my resume. The jobs I have done have been manual labor. I feel like there is something else I should be doing.

Stop it, you're killing me...

Seriously though, get a high LSAT score and then worry about ensuring your entrance into the hallowed halls of YHS.

[aekea]

I will be taking the LSAT in June, because next autumn I will be in Paris during both the October and December LSATS. I do not want to take the test in February because I suspect that since my school is in a rather cold climate, I will be at a disadvantage when compared to - for instance - Stanford or Duke students. Dysthymia associated with short days leads to reduced analytic ability.

You should sue the LSAC over this blatant discrimination toward people in cold climates. It's exactly this sort of soft factor that Yale is looking for to help distinguish between people with 3.9 GPAs and 175 LSATs.

[FryBreadPower]

I will be taking the LSAT in June, because next autumn I will be in Paris during both the October and December LSATS. I do not want to take the test in February because I suspect that since my school is in a rather cold climate, I will be at a disadvantage when compared to - for instance - Stanford or Duke students. Dysthymia associated with short days leads to reduced analytic ability.

What is this? I don't even...

[Richie Tenenbaum]

I will be taking the LSAT in June, because next autumn I will be in Paris during both the October and December LSATS. I do not want to take the test in February because I suspect that since my school is in a rather cold climate, I will be at a disadvantage when compared to - for instance - Stanford or Duke students. Dysthymia associated with short days leads to reduced analytic ability.

You should sue the LSAC over this blatant discrimination toward people in cold climates. It's exactly this sort of soft factor that Yale is looking for to help distinguish between people a bunch of people with 3.9 GPAs and 175 LSATs.

This definitely calls for an LSAT addendum.

[Kobaine51]

Thank you for your advice, but - and not to be rude - high lsat and gpa are sortof self-evident. From looking at numbers, It looks like for instance Yale accepts about half of students with a 3.9 175, given that, what is differentiating the accepted group from the rejected group? I will have spent time abroad - which apparently helps applications for some obscure or fabricated reason - and I play intramural sports, but theres pretty much nothing else on my resume. The jobs I have done have been manual labor. I feel like there is something else I should be doing.

Nah I meant the importance of them, not my ability to succeed at either

[AntipodeanPhil]

Thank you for your advice, but - and not to be rude - high lsat and gpa are sortof self-evident. From looking at numbers, It looks like for instance Yale accepts about half of students with a 3.9 175, given that, what is differentiating the accepted group from the rejected group? I will have spent time abroad - which apparently helps applications for some obscure or fabricated reason - and I play intramural sports, but theres pretty much nothing else on my resume. The jobs I have done have been manual labor. I feel like there is something else I should be doing.

Both Harvard and Yale have a strong preference for work experience. Only 20% of 1Ls at Yale this year are straight from undergrad. Those accepted straight from undergrad at Yale seem to have amazing numbers and/or backgrounds (e.g., a 180/4.0). The percentage straight from undergrad at Harvard was higher, I believe, but the new director of admissions seems to have an even stronger preference for work experience than past directors, so that might change.

You should aim to do something interesting or prestigious - working at Goldman Sachs, some kind of federal government or research position, et cetera - or else something that involves helping others, like Teach for America. I have heard people say that Harvard has a slight preference for business-related work experience, and Yale has a preference for interesting or unusual work experience.

As you imply, a lot of people accepted this year at Yale do seem to have travelled/lived abroad.

[Kobaine51]

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[Lincoln]

I will be taking the LSAT in June, because next autumn I will be in Paris during both the October and December LSATS. I do not want to take the test in February because I suspect that since my school is in a rather cold climate, I will be at a disadvantage when compared to - for instance - Stanford or Duke students. Dysthymia associated with short days leads to reduced analytic ability.

You should sue the LSAC over this blatant discrimination toward people in cold climates. It's exactly this sort of soft factor that Yale is looking for to help distinguish between people with 3.9 GPAs and 175 LSATs.

I mean, it's common knowledge that people from warm places like South Texas and Florida have waaaaay higher LSAT scores than people from the Northeast. In fact, I don't think anyone who took the LSAT in the Northeast in December or February has ever gotten into HSY.

[Lincoln]

Both Harvard and Yale have a strong preference for work experience. Only 20% of 1Ls at Yale this year are straight from undergrad. Those accepted straight from undergrad at Yale seem to have amazing numbers and/or backgrounds (e.g., a 180/4.0). The percentage straight from undergrad at Harvard was higher, I believe, but the new director of admissions seems to have an even stronger preference for work experience than past directors, so that might change.

You should aim to do something interesting or prestigious - working at Goldman Sachs, some kind of federal government or research position, et cetera - or else something that involves helping others, like Teach for America. I have heard people say that Harvard has a slight preference for business-related work experience, and Yale has a preference for interesting or unusual work experience.

As you imply, a lot of people accepted this year at Yale do seem to have travelled/lived abroad.

Yeah, I saw that when I was looking at the statistics, but what I wondered was wether that reflected a different standard or wether some other factor contributed. Neither of these schools offer merit aid, and so for a student to attend they must go into debt or pay up front. Recent college graduates, excepting fortuitous circumstances, tend not to be able to pay up front, and to already be in debt. I wonder wether people who are accepted into these schools just tend to work force because they can't afford to attend otherwise. Now, it seems that work experience would certainly strengthen an application, but if the criteria is just work experience, and not work experience post-graduation, then presumably an internship would also be helpful. I don't want to take time off after college, just because if I take law as a profession, my lifetime potential is greater the more time I spend in the field. Also, obviously the job market is still not great, and even in two years when I graduate I doubt it will be. I do plan on doing at least one internship, do you think this will afford commensurate value to a real job?

Where do you even get all this from? Do you just make it up?

[AntipodeanPhil]

Yeah, I saw that when I was looking at the statistics, but what I wondered was whether that reflected a different standard or whether some other factor contributed. Neither of these schools offer merit aid, and so for a student to attend they must go into debt or pay up front. Recent college graduates, excepting fortuitous circumstances, tend not to be able to pay up front, and to already be in debt. I wonder wether people who are accepted into these schools just tend to work first because they can't afford to attend otherwise.

Most students at Yale get need-based aid, and if you don't get a high-paying job after graduation, Yale will make some or all of your loan payments for you - including payments on your undergrad debt, I believe. The situation is similar at Harvard and Stanford. And the career prospects from those schools are good enough that most people don't worry too much about the debt.

If you look at people's jobs before attending Yale, most of those jobs won't allow the people to save much money.

For all of these reasons, I don't think most people work first simply to pay for HYS.

[Kobaine51]

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[Flips88]

This entire thread in a nut shell:

Of course this is all baseless speculation.

[AntipodeanPhil]

What I would still wonder, however, is whether the bias presented above is accounted for by - instead of just looking at qualified applicants. I think that Yale admission weeds out the most qualified 1000 applicants by stats before admission begins in earnest. If this process is done by stats alone, and I have no idea if it is or not, then the final, than those final thousand potential apps are probably the most indicative of what effect prior work experience has on admission. Of course this is all baseless speculation.

Have you read the article on this website about how the application review process works at Yale? The admissions office selects the best 800-1000 applicants, and sends those files for faculty review. Three faculty members review each application, and give each a score. The 250 or so applications with the best faculty scores get accepted. That's not just speculation - it's information provided by Yale.

We know they don't decide who to send to faculty review based entirely on LSAT + GPA, though, because Yale accepts a few people (non-URMs) each year with bad numbers.

[FryBreadPower]

This entire thread in a nut shell:

Of course this is all baseless speculation.

[Kobaine51]

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[Flips88]

Jesus christ. Just take the LSAT and then assess your chances. You pretty much need a 173+ for C and H and probably need a 175+ for a fighting chance at Y and S, and even then you need strong credentials. So good luck being in the top 1% of LSAT takers

[Kobaine51]

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[Bildungsroman]

There is no benefit in not acting towards my goal

Opportunity costs, brostoyevsky.

Take LSAT and apply. Try not to continue getting shitty grades.

Also, your writing is shitty. Try to fix that before law school.