Veterans Thread Forum

[SemperLegal]

Quick question. Is it normal for your tuition to be prorated if your Post 9/11 eligibility runs out in the middle of the semester? I thought that if you still had eligibility at the beginning of a semester that the semester's tuition was fully covered. I've been told by my soon to be school that I will be responsible for a prorated amount of tuition for a semester since my eligibility will run out during the semester.

Basically I have 13 months and 22 days of eligibility left, so I was expecting to get 1L and 2L tuition covered since I would start semester 2 of 2L with a little eligibility remaining. They are saying that I will have to cover part of that semester's tuition and fees. Just want to know if that is normal.

Thanks

I think the cite is upthread, but the va was "as a courtesy" finishing out the semester

[FairchildFLT]

Is it a year long deployment? If nothing else I'm sure UT would let you defer

No its just a 180. When I thought about law school this isn't the type of 180 I wanted.

[seizmaar]

i don't remember everything i researched, but i just gave my program manager a lot of shit about how i doubted reserve command had solicited volunteers properly. I put in a FOIA request for the documentation supporting the fact that: reserve command had sought volunteers and gotten none, and that there was no other reservist of my rank with an earlier short-tour return date.

pretty soon after that they "found" a volunteer.

i spoke to some lawyers as well, but they wanted like 18-20k to do the case, to which i said, "fuck that, i'll go to afghanistan."

[JazzyMac]

Looking for stories...

Hey guys and gals, if you're willing, I'd love to read your adventures in law school and applying to law school etc. Especially the ones who were already accepted or are going. I know folks don't like to "clog" up the thread, but honestly I love reading about the adventures. I'm excited to be opening the next chapter that is law school.

So far I'm in the beginning stages. Procrastinated daggone near all of 2014 in studying, and now that I finally cracked open a book, I'm thinking that I will be ready in June. For those whom scored high, hats off to you because I know it's difficult finding the time to study, much less maintaining enough consistency to score above the median.

So, post your stories!

[Grunt2Grad]

Just a few quick tips/experiences from Voc Rehab because I have got a couple of questions.

-Voc Rehab is not uniform across the board so no two vets have identical experiences. There are a lot of factors that come in to play (in my experience the most important being a solid counselor)

-While you technically probably need to be accepted into law school to get an IWRP that says Lawyer/Attorney etc. you do not have to be accepted for your counselor to approve the overall process of becoming an attorney. I was approved before I even took the LSAT. I have just rewritten an IWRP for each step of the way with the condition "Plan will be updated and modified once veteran has been admitted to ABA accredited school".

-Do your best to not sell the idea of going to law school to your counselor; sell practicing law. In my personal experience the counselors were extremely adamant about Voc Rehab not being an education benefit extension for you to go to grad school but a program to get you placed in your approved vocation (Lawyer).

-I was extremely lucky and my counselor had zero issues approving me and the process took about 10 minutes (after the little assessment and group introduction to the program) but if you get a no, appeal the decision. Free law school with a housing allowance is worth putting up a fight for. (I am 80% combat related, not sure if that plays a role in how willing they were to approve).

-If you have any questions or want information I am more than willing to help with what I know through my experiences so PM.

[mike0331]

Just a few quick tips/experiences from Voc Rehab because I have got a couple of questions.

-Voc Rehab is not uniform across the board so no two vets have identical experiences. There are a lot of factors that come in to play (in my experience the most important being a solid counselor)

-While you technically probably need to be accepted into law school to get an IWRP that says Lawyer/Attorney etc. you do not have to be accepted for your counselor to approve the overall process of becoming an attorney. I was approved before I even took the LSAT. I have just rewritten an IWRP for each step of the way with the condition "Plan will be updated and modified once veteran has been admitted to ABA accredited school".

-Do your best to not sell the idea of going to law school to your counselor; sell practicing law. In my personal experience the counselors were extremely adamant about Voc Rehab not being an education benefit extension for you to go to grad school but a program to get you placed in your approved vocation (Lawyer).

-I was extremely lucky and my counselor had zero issues approving me and the process took about 10 minutes (after the little assessment and group introduction to the program) but if you get a no, appeal the decision. Free law school with a housing allowance is worth putting up a fight for. (I am 80% combat related, not sure if that plays a role in how willing they were to approve).

-If you have any questions or want information I am more than willing to help with what I know through my experiences so PM.

My councilor was also very willing to help out. My rating is lower and is service connected (back, knees, hearing), but she has placed clients in law schools before. At least one other Marine I deployed with was going to/completed law school on voc-rehab with a back injury as well so he was helpful in explaining the overview of the process.

I suppose if a councilor offered opposition there could be issues, but that never came up for me. I have been accepted to some schools thus far, but I have not been accepted to my top choices yet (BC, BU), though I hope to be shortly. That said, the program still covered my Kaplan LSAT course, my enrollment in LSAC, and one of my LSATs. I am hoping to get it to cover the Patent Bar and a prep course prior to starting school, but I will be meeting with my councilor upon hearing back from BC/BU.

Does anyone have any experience with changing councilors? I live in western Massachusetts and will be shifted to a councilor wherever I go to school, presumably boston... I assume at that point the overall plan will already be approved.

As far as my plan goes, I paid for my first 2 years of undergrad out of pocket (well grandparents had a college fund for me at that time), served overseas, got the GI bill at 60% for one year, and then was able to enroll in voc-rehab with the plan of becoming a lawyer, shifting from following a field biology track. So far it's been smooth sailing but as the vet I make sure I am constantly emailing my councilor to keep her informed, even if she says its not necessary. I just want to make sure we are consistently on the same page.

I wonder if where you live/where you get in matters. She told me they wouldn't cover bad law programs, and that I'll need to satisfy them that the program meets their criteria. So for Massachusetts I guess that's Suffolk on up.

As to the question on studying for the LSAT. I would take a class, and then take the good from that class and apply it to your learning style. My PTs went from about a 152ish to a 162ish with the Kaplan course, I bombed my first LSAT with a 158, and basically went back to the drawing board. Took a ton of practice tests and carefully analyzed what I got wrong and got my PT averages into the low 170s pretty consistently. Only pulled off a 165 for the real deal, but I hope that will be enough to overcome my 3.2 GPA for BC and BU.

Mike

[BNA]

Hey guys/gals,

Moved this here to get some perspective from vets.


Until recently I'd settled on a TT, state university with my 161. I'm a GI Bill eligible vet, and intend to use it on law school. My work in the service, although not combat related, was somewhat impressive and makes for a hell of a personal statement. As for the recent shift in LS consideration, I was offered a high level GS position that starts at ~100K in D.C., which likely won't begin until around Aug/Sep. This is obviously something I can't turn down, but I am still adamant about using the GIB for LS. That said, my current thought process is to retake in June after some serious tutoring and time commitment to hit that 75th for GULC's part time program.

So, the reason for my post:

I have a 3.0 LSAC gpa, and the figures I'm seeing for their part time program reveal about a 5% acceptance rate. Is this accurate, and more importantly, is GULC a pipe-dream with that gpa? I'm confident in my ability to hit the 168 by June, but is it worth the effort with such low probability? Also somewhat relevant is the fact that I've held a 3.9 through the last 3 years of UG. Freshman year was obviously a bust. Lastly, I want to go to law school to make money. I'm not shy about my intentions in that regard, and I think that a JD will give me options. If I don't land a "big law" position, the degree will still undoubtedly further my career in government work. Between that expectation, and the fact that tuition would be about $7500/yr, I don't see many negatives if I can actually pull it off. Thanks for thoughts or advice.

[UnicornHunter]

Hey guys/gals,

Moved this here to get some perspective from vets.


Until recently I'd settled on a TT, state university with my 161. I'm a GI Bill eligible vet, and intend to use it on law school. My work in the service, although not combat related, was somewhat impressive and makes for a hell of a personal statement. As for the recent shift in LS consideration, I was offered a high level GS position that starts at ~100K in D.C., which likely won't begin until around Aug/Sep. This is obviously something I can't turn down, but I am still adamant about using the GIB for LS. That said, my current thought process is to retake in June after some serious tutoring and time commitment to hit that 75th for GULC's part time program.

So, the reason for my post:

I have a 3.0 LSAC gpa, and the figures I'm seeing for their part time program reveal about a 5% acceptance rate. Is this accurate, and more importantly, is GULC a pipe-dream with that gpa? I'm confident in my ability to hit the 168 by June, but is it worth the effort with such low probability? Also somewhat relevant is the fact that I've held a 3.9 through the last 3 years of UG. Freshman year was obviously a bust. Lastly, I want to go to law school to make money. I'm not shy about my intentions in that regard, and I think that a JD will give me options. If I don't land a "big law" position, the degree will still undoubtedly further my career in government work. Between that expectation, and the fact that tuition would be about $7500/yr, I don't see many negatives if I can actually pull it off. Thanks for thoughts or advice.

If I were you, I would take the government gig and focus on that 100% for a year. Once you get a feel for it, resume studying for the LSAT during the second year. If you hid median or above for GULC on the LSAT, you will get accepted.

It sounds like you'll be starting in the GS-10 to GS-12 range. Keep in mind that many big law associates would kill for a GS attorney slot in that range. If all you care about in life is making money, it's not crazy to think that you'll actually do better in the long run forgetting about law, working your way up to GS-15, and then going to work for some contractor that does on the private side what you do on the federal side. Law is definitely not an obvious path to riches here.

eta: even if you never go into law, you're probably right that a JD will help in gov. However, so will a Masters, and those don't totally suck to get and might actually be relevant to the work you do. In my mind, it's just another reason to hold out for your first year.

[PartTimer78]

Hey guys/gals,

Moved this here to get some perspective from vets.


Until recently I'd settled on a TT, state university with my 161. I'm a GI Bill eligible vet, and intend to use it on law school. My work in the service, although not combat related, was somewhat impressive and makes for a hell of a personal statement. As for the recent shift in LS consideration, I was offered a high level GS position that starts at ~100K in D.C., which likely won't begin until around Aug/Sep. This is obviously something I can't turn down, but I am still adamant about using the GIB for LS. That said, my current thought process is to retake in June after some serious tutoring and time commitment to hit that 75th for GULC's part time program.

So, the reason for my post:

I have a 3.0 LSAC gpa, and the figures I'm seeing for their part time program reveal about a 5% acceptance rate. Is this accurate, and more importantly, is GULC a pipe-dream with that gpa? I'm confident in my ability to hit the 168 by June, but is it worth the effort with such low probability? Also somewhat relevant is the fact that I've held a 3.9 through the last 3 years of UG. Freshman year was obviously a bust. Lastly, I want to go to law school to make money. I'm not shy about my intentions in that regard, and I think that a JD will give me options. If I don't land a "big law" position, the degree will still undoubtedly further my career in government work. Between that expectation, and the fact that tuition would be about $7500/yr, I don't see many negatives if I can actually pull it off. Thanks for thoughts or advice.

As a part-time student working for the federal govt with the GI bill, I strongly recommend this track. Feel free to PM me for details, but you should do everything you can to get into the part time program. I can't speak to how good your chances are, but I have a tough time believing it is as selective as the 5% acceptance rate may indicate. If you apply as a part-time student only (vice either full or part) and stress that you are working full time, I find it hard to imagine that a 3.0 will preclude you from getting in. Also, with the GI Bill and yellow ribbon, tuition for a part-timer is zero (you may have to pay for a credit or two if you go heavy one summer). This, on top of being able to pocket your BAH, makes this the even better than going to HYS in my mind. Good luck.

[JazzyMac]

Hey guys/gals,

Moved this here to get some perspective from vets.


Until recently I'd settled on a TT, state university with my 161. I'm a GI Bill eligible vet, and intend to use it on law school. My work in the service, although not combat related, was somewhat impressive and makes for a hell of a personal statement. As for the recent shift in LS consideration, I was offered a high level GS position that starts at ~100K in D.C., which likely won't begin until around Aug/Sep. This is obviously something I can't turn down, but I am still adamant about using the GIB for LS. That said, my current thought process is to retake in June after some serious tutoring and time commitment to hit that 75th for GULC's part time program.

So, the reason for my post:

I have a 3.0 LSAC gpa, and the figures I'm seeing for their part time program reveal about a 5% acceptance rate. Is this accurate, and more importantly, is GULC a pipe-dream with that gpa? I'm confident in my ability to hit the 168 by June, but is it worth the effort with such low probability? Also somewhat relevant is the fact that I've held a 3.9 through the last 3 years of UG. Freshman year was obviously a bust. Lastly, I want to go to law school to make money. I'm not shy about my intentions in that regard, and I think that a JD will give me options. If I don't land a "big law" position, the degree will still undoubtedly further my career in government work. Between that expectation, and the fact that tuition would be about $7500/yr, I don't see many negatives if I can actually pull it off. Thanks for thoughts or advice.

As a part-time student working for the federal govt with the GI bill, I strongly recommend this track. Feel free to PM me for details, but you should do everything you can to get into the part time program. I can't speak to how good your chances are, but I have a tough time believing it is as selective as the 5% acceptance rate may indicate. If you apply as a part-time student only (vice either full or part) and stress that you are working full time, I find it hard to imagine that a 3.0 will preclude you from getting in. Also, with the GI Bill and yellow ribbon, tuition for a part-timer is zero (you may have to pay for a credit or two if you go heavy one summer). This, on top of being able to pocket your BAH, makes this the even better than going to HYS in my mind. Good luck.

Wouldn't it be difficult to do law school with a federal position? Am I over estimating the workloads of either?

[haus]

Wouldn't it be difficult to do law school with a federal position? Am I over estimating the workloads of either?

This is what I am doing, and I am hoping that this continues to prove to be manageable.

But, I will admit that juggling a full time (plus) federal job, family, and part-time JD does feel rough at times.

ETA: I am glad that I put off school long enough to max out my vacation time to give me a bit of flexibility.

[BNA]

My experience with most gov positions is that they are straight, 40hr/week obligations. When you've done your 8 hours, you put your shit down and don't think about it until the next morning. As long as it's not too high stress, and if you had to work full time, I think fed work would be wise.

[PartTimer78]

My experience with most gov positions is that they are straight, 40hr/week obligations. When you've done your 8 hours, you put your shit down and don't think about it until the next morning. As long as it's not too high stress, and if you had to work full time, I think fed work would be wise.

Going to school part time while working 40 hours a week certainly isn't the most enjoyable way to do it, but its worth it. Not all gigs are the same, but if you do the straight 40 hours a week with one day off every two weeks, it is definitely manageable. The work is demanding when you are in the office, but for most places I'm familiar with, you check it all at the door when 5pm rolls around.

[JazzyMac]

I guess I'm still in "active duty mode" where your off-duty hours really aren't yours, and most days leaving at 5 p.m. is considered "leaving early". Not because of bad bosses or negative situations, just because there is so much to always do. If this is different for federal jobs, maybe it won't be so bad. And extra paychecks wouldn't hurt either.

[navykev]

Hey guys/gals,

Moved this here to get some perspective from vets.


Until recently I'd settled on a TT, state university with my 161. I'm a GI Bill eligible vet, and intend to use it on law school. My work in the service, although not combat related, was somewhat impressive and makes for a hell of a personal statement. As for the recent shift in LS consideration, I was offered a high level GS position that starts at ~100K in D.C., which likely won't begin until around Aug/Sep. This is obviously something I can't turn down, but I am still adamant about using the GIB for LS. That said, my current thought process is to retake in June after some serious tutoring and time commitment to hit that 75th for GULC's part time program.

So, the reason for my post:

I have a 3.0 LSAC gpa, and the figures I'm seeing for their part time program reveal about a 5% acceptance rate. Is this accurate, and more importantly, is GULC a pipe-dream with that gpa? I'm confident in my ability to hit the 168 by June, but is it worth the effort with such low probability? Also somewhat relevant is the fact that I've held a 3.9 through the last 3 years of UG. Freshman year was obviously a bust. Lastly, I want to go to law school to make money. I'm not shy about my intentions in that regard, and I think that a JD will give me options. If I don't land a "big law" position, the degree will still undoubtedly further my career in government work. Between that expectation, and the fact that tuition would be about $7500/yr, I don't see many negatives if I can actually pull it off. Thanks for thoughts or advice.

Have a friend that worked a GS position in DC and went to the part-time program at GULC. He is at a V3 firm now - oh and he did it while tending to a relatively large family -- so it can be done but it won't be easy. If you want more details - let me know - he was a vet as well and Im sure he wouldn't mind chatting with you about his experience.

[mike0331]

What are your guys thoughts on going back into the reserves post law school. Flying helicopters has always been a dream of mine and my states ANG has blackhawks. Ill be 28 after LS, and I was thinking of trying to go into an ang infantry unit my last year (former 03 in the USMCR so wont requure retraining) and submitting my WOFT package from there.

How problematic would it be to take a year or so off after LS for WOFT? Ill probably go back to being a weekend warrior regardless, JAG would be my backup plan if aviation falls through.

Mike

[UnicornHunter]

What are your guys thoughts on going back into the reserves post law school. Flying helicopters has always been a dream of mine and my states ANG has blackhawks. Ill be 28 after LS, and I was thinking of trying to go into an ang infantry unit my last year (former 03 in the USMCR so wont requure retraining) and submitting my WOFT package from there.

How problematic would it be to take a year or so off after LS for WOFT? Ill probably go back to being a weekend warrior regardless, JAG would be my backup plan if aviation falls through.

Mike

I think it really depends on what you're trying to do in law, but I can't imagine it would be a good look. The last thing you want to do though is take a year off and then try to get back into the legal field. If you secure employment first, you might be able to talk to your employer about it and see if they'll let you take a year off. Still, I can't imagine that too many employers would be thrilled with the idea of you spending a year away from the law to fly helicopters. It seems like it would come off as you not being committed to/serious about the profession.

[FairchildFLT]

How did you guys go about securing financial aid (loans) for living expenses?

I'm currently stationed in Washington and my HOR is Colorado. They'll move us back that far, but the additional mileage to Austin needs to be footed by us. Once we get there we'll have hotel costs while we find a house, loss of both incomes until my wife finds a new job etc...

I know the GI Bill is the last form of aid to pay out, so I would assume if I take a loan the GI bill would just pay tuition minus the loan amount instead of just tuition.

Is that something I need to work out with the office of financial aid at the school?

TIA

[DDG00]

I'm currently stationed in Washington and my HOR is Colorado. They'll move us back that far, but the additional mileage to Austin needs to be footed by us. Once we get there we'll have hotel costs while we find a house, loss of both incomes until my wife finds a new job etc...

Not to derail your post, but I'm curious how the process works to move beyond your HOR mileage. Do they just charge you for the extra mileage?

[FairchildFLT]

I'm currently stationed in Washington and my HOR is Colorado. They'll move us back that far, but the additional mileage to Austin needs to be footed by us. Once we get there we'll have hotel costs while we find a house, loss of both incomes until my wife finds a new job etc...

Not to derail your post, but I'm curious how the process works to move beyond your HOR mileage. Do they just charge you for the extra mileage?

No problem. As far as I understand yes. Per the dude in my office who used to work in travel.

[Ex Cearulo]

I'm currently stationed in Washington and my HOR is Colorado. They'll move us back that far, but the additional mileage to Austin needs to be footed by us. Once we get there we'll have hotel costs while we find a house, loss of both incomes until my wife finds a new job etc...

Not to derail your post, but I'm curious how the process works to move beyond your HOR mileage. Do they just charge you for the extra mileage?

No problem. As far as I understand yes. Per the dude in my office who used to work in travel.

Really?! Damn. I always assumed Big Blue moved you wherever you wanted in CONUS from your last assignment after separating/retiring. Made sense to help facilitate a new job or something. So if your last base just happens to be in the same state as your HOR but you're taking a civ job or going to school on the other side of the country, you pay out of pocket to move there (assuming the job doesn't cover moving expenses)?

[navykev]

How did you guys go about securing financial aid (loans) for living expenses?

I know the GI Bill is the last form of aid to pay out, so I would assume if I take a loan the GI bill would just pay tuition minus the loan amount instead of just tuition.

Is that something I need to work out with the office of financial aid at the school?

TIA

This is from my own research -- keep in mind I am a 0L and the guys/gals that have already done this might have better info. From what I've been able to figure out - a student loan can be used any way you like - you can pay tuition, pay bills, buy a Ferrari, etc -- you spend it how you want to just like any other personal loan. So if you get a student loan you stick it in the bank - let the VA pay and then if you have to shell out more tuition you pull from that money. Now if FASFA gives you a grant or something that you don't have to pay back -- that is specifically for tuition -- I believe that would be applied to tuition but I could be wrong there.

[FairchildFLT]

I'm currently stationed in Washington and my HOR is Colorado. They'll move us back that far, but the additional mileage to Austin needs to be footed by us. Once we get there we'll have hotel costs while we find a house, loss of both incomes until my wife finds a new job etc...

Not to derail your post, but I'm curious how the process works to move beyond your HOR mileage. Do they just charge you for the extra mileage?

No problem. As far as I understand yes. Per the dude in my office who used to work in travel.

Really?! Damn. I always assumed Big Blue moved you wherever you wanted in CONUS from your last assignment after separating/retiring. Made sense to help facilitate a new job or something. So if your last base just happens to be in the same state as your HOR but you're taking a civ job or going to school on the other side of the country, you pay out of pocket to move there (assuming the job doesn't cover moving expenses)?

Edit: Let me do some AFI digging before I spread unconfirmed information.

Edit 2:

Per AFI 24-501 page 26, "A home of selection shipment at Government expense is authorized to any place within the United States (including Alaska and Hawaii)..." for "Retirement, Placement on TDRL, Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay, Involuntary Release from Active Duty with Readjustment or Separation Pay."

It's not really clear on page 23 "Separation From the Service or Relief from Active Duty Except for Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay..." where you can move to. But it says to use Attachment 13, which authorizes them to move your stuff back to your HOR or place entered active duty.

[MT Cicero]

Edit: Let me do some AFI digging before I spread unconfirmed information.

Edit 2:

Per AFI 24-501 page 26, "A home of selection shipment at Government expense is authorized to any place within the United States (including Alaska and Hawaii)..." for "Retirement, Placement on TDRL, Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay, Involuntary Release from Active Duty with Readjustment or Separation Pay."

It's not really clear on page 23 "Separation From the Service or Relief from Active Duty Except for Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay..." where you can move to. But it says to use Attachment 13, which authorizes them to move your stuff back to your HOR or place entered active duty.

Bingo. For those separating, it's the bolded. Source: just separated. They read me this and told me 1) home of record, or 2) place entered active duty (your MEPS station).

[FairchildFLT]

Edit: Let me do some AFI digging before I spread unconfirmed information.

Edit 2:

Per AFI 24-501 page 26, "A home of selection shipment at Government expense is authorized to any place within the United States (including Alaska and Hawaii)..." for "Retirement, Placement on TDRL, Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay, Involuntary Release from Active Duty with Readjustment or Separation Pay."

It's not really clear on page 23 "Separation From the Service or Relief from Active Duty Except for Discharge with Severance or Separation Pay..." where you can move to. But it says to use Attachment 13, which authorizes them to move your stuff back to your HOR or place entered active duty.

Bingo. For those separating, it's the bolded. Source: just separated. They read me this and told me 1) home of record, or 2) place entered active duty (your MEPS station).

If you wanted to go somewhere further, did they talk to you about paying the difference?